This guy has a set of balls, that's for sure. I applaud it too because anyone who has traveled knows what a crock the TSA is. Under-trained, over-funded, and no real knowledge of what a citizens rights actually are....

 

TSA Full Body Scanner Incident

I saw this on the news this morning. Actually I saw it on a couple of different news channels, and it was interesting how the story was reported differently.

 

On FOX, this was a guy standing up for his rights not to be subject to an intrusive and demeaning assault.

 

On CBS, this was a troublemaker with a plan to disrupt the legal security measures taken to ensure the safety of everyone else.

 

Kudos to the guy for standing on his principles. It's a shame that he's probably gonna regret it for a long time to come.

Dick measuring photo, Dick groping or $10,000 fine. Choose your poison. I was patted down a few times this year in security and once in Germany I wasn't sure if I had to pay the man or not. The last time I was touched like that was in Hong Kong and it cost me 200HKD.

 

The TSA needs abolished and security needs to be reconstituted entirely differently.

Hooray for this guy!

Go for the pat down and before they start just say "no homo". Of course not that there is anything wrong with it.

Seriously though, sadly this is the world that we now live in after 9-11. Because our government won't "profile" the type of people who normally carry out terrorist activities, we have to endure these "inconveniences". I don't like it but I can accept it. Oh yeah good for him to say no.

Posted that to my fb wall. that is great. I do think he broke the law with the recording equipment though.

 

I am sure once you get into the secure area and even after the secure area, it clearly says no pictures or video.

 

I can look through my book regarding newark procedures and see.

the problem is the whole airline industry is missing the point.. x-ray machines.. a game of "touchy feely"...isn't going to stop a whole group of people bent on doing harm.. sadly these people will always find a way at some point...

 

at the end of the day can you really even say your "rights" are being violated? do you have a "right" to use a companies airplane without agreeing to the terms they require to board? it is not your airplane.. it is not the governments airplane.. if you don't like the terms then don't fly? I find the whole TSA ridiculous having been subjected to "additional screening"... but about the only rights I feel I have when it comes to a privately owned business like this is the right to choose another way to get there..

 

just saying..

the problem is the whole airline industry is missing the point.. x-ray machines.. a game of "touchy feely"...isn't going to stop a whole group of people bent on doing harm.. sadly these people will always find a way at some point...

 

at the end of the day can you really even say your "rights" are being violated? do you have a "right" to use a companies airplane without agreeing to the terms they require to board? it is not your airplane.. it is not the governments airplane.. if you don't like the terms then don't fly? I find the whole TSA ridiculous having been subjected to "additional screening"... but about the only rights I feel I have when it comes to a privately owned business like this is the right to choose another way to get there..

 

just saying..

 

It's just like the gun laws here - limiting the rights of us law abiding citizens will NOT circumvent the illegal activity of criminals and terrorists in ANY way.

Now if they would hire hot looking female TSA agents with hooters like uniforms to do the pat down, I would gladly fall in line.

I'm not about to let some random guy do it.

Who or what defines a threat? We could get into a discussion about being bigots, but that's not my point. Threats know no color or religion. Threats have evolved over the thousands of years of "civilized" society, and will continue too. As ronhonda said, this is the world that was created post-9/11, and the one we've let take hold of our minds and liberties. Having been on the other side of the fence, I know what goes through the mind of intel and security, and why they feel that what they do is only necessary. As a civilian now, I can't say I agree with their justification at times (even having a zero-sum-game mentality).

 

Maybe the lesson to be learned is that it doesn't necessarily take 'fear' to meet today's and tomorrow's challenges? Though, yes, I agree, I doubt that will change. In a world dictated by miracles and tragedy, our societies feed on misery... and its unfortunate because that doesn't seem like much of a world that inspires.

Threats know no color or religion.

 

 

I have to disagree to some extent.... I have several friends, acquaintances, and clients who are "middle eastern".. but with that said when was the last time a 40 year old Jewish man hijacked a plane... when was the last time a middle age Latino women tried to set off a bomb hidden in her shoe.. racial/ethnic profiling may make people sad... but it is a useful tool in law enforcement.. don't we know when we are talking about 911 type threats (hijacking, bombs, etc..) that we are generally looking for middle eastern men... not because all middle eastern men are bad (they are obviously not), but instead because that IS the profile.. ignoring race or ethnicity when trying to catch "bad guys" in favor of being "politically correct" is silly.. IMO of course..

I'm with CBS, I think the guy was just looking for a cause.

 

I've been unlucky enough to have have taken about 12 flights in the past 1.5 months. It's been a grueling 6 weeks. I've seen the scanner machine in SAN. My traveling companion was pulled through it while I went through the regular metal detector. My companion was also patted down. The scanner is slower and still required the pat down. Seems like a waste of time and money but that's not the point. The policies at the airport, however stupid they may be, are there for our protection. I was patted down twice in China by females and patted down once in France by a male. My genitalia were not touched. They pat down many more people in China and France than in the USA but you can keep your shoes on.

 

Look at it from TSA's view: They pat down hundreds of people a day and this one guy has a problem with it. Well, I don't want that guy on my plane. It appears he's hiding something.

For those asking if you have "rights" after you buy a ticket, yes, you and your family have a right not to be sexually assaulted either visually (scanners) or physically regardless of the contract implied by said ticket purchase.

 

My friends young, attractive, jailbait daughter had to go through the full body scan machine because she refused to allow some unknown low paid non trained person to touch her. And she reads the news and knows that they cannot keep sickos from taking photos of the screen and doing things with it. And yeah, with how she is built there's no question about what you are looking at I'd wager. She felt violated. That's bullhish. this is America not f'ing communist USSR where you have no rights. Nobody should feel raped as a condition of traveling through the air.

 

If this wasn't the government doing it, people would be in jail and on the sex offenders list. Truth.

I have to disagree to some extent.... I have several friends, acquaintances, and clients who are "middle eastern".. but with that said when was the last time a 40 year old Jewish man hijacked a plane... when was the last time a middle age Latino women tried to set off a bomb hidden in her shoe.. racial/ethnic profiling may make people sad... but it is a useful tool in law enforcement.. don't we know when we are talking about 911 type threats (hijacking, bombs, etc..) that we are generally looking for middle eastern men... not because all middle eastern men are bad (they are obviously not), but instead because that IS the profile.. ignoring race or ethnicity when trying to catch "bad guys" in favor of being "politically correct" is silly.. IMO of course..

 

Speaking of racial profiling, if the guy in the video was middle easterner, no one would have any sympathy for him and would go as far to ask him to be detained for causing such a commotion.

I'm with CBS, I think the guy was just looking for a cause.

 

I've been unlucky enough to have have taken about 12 flights in the past 1.5 months. It's been a grueling 6 weeks. I've seen the scanner machine in SAN. My traveling companion was pulled through it while I went through the regular metal detector. My companion was also patted down. The scanner is slower and still required the pat down. Seems like a waste of time and money but that's not the point. The policies at the airport, however stupid they may be, are there for our protection. I was patted down twice in China by females and patted down once in France by a male. My genitalia were not touched. They pat down many more people in China and France than in the USA but you can keep your shoes on.

 

Look at it from TSA's view: They pat down hundreds of people a day and this one guy has a problem with it. Well, I don't want that guy on my plane. It appears he's hiding something.

 

I've been through the full body scanner at San Francisco Airport. They don't require a pat down afterwards.

For those asking if you have "rights" after you buy a ticket, yes, you and your family have a right not to be sexually assaulted either visually (scanners) or physically regardless of the contract implied by said ticket purchase.

 

My friends young, attractive, jailbait daughter had to go through the full body scan machine because she refused to allow some unknown low paid non trained person to touch her. And she reads the news and knows that they cannot keep sickos from taking photos of the screen and doing things with it. And yeah, with how she is built there's no question about what you are looking at I'd wager. She felt violated. That's bullhish. this is America not f'ing communist USSR where you have no rights. Nobody should feel raped as a condition of traveling through the air.

 

If this wasn't the government doing it, people would be in jail and on the sex offenders list. Truth.

 

 

again.. you have the right not to use that companies services... where do your "rights" end... think of how ridiculous of a world we would live in if everyone had the right to do whatever they wanted.. the point being.. no one is forcing you to fly.. so I don't think you can really claim that they are hindering your ability to free travel by invasive scanning... if the law said "any cop who stops you on the street can arbitrarily give you a full body scan" then yeah.. that is a violation of your rights.... but I think of privately owned planes as being a littler different..

Speaking of racial profiling, if the guy in the video was middle easterner, no one would have any sympathy for him and would go as far to ask him to be detained for causing such a commotion.

 

for what it's worth.. I would have the same feelings and reaction to the story irregardless of his ethnicity.. I watched some of the video and skimmed the story (I am at work) and from what I read I still at this point have no idea what his ethnicity is, so for me it was not a factor..

I have to disagree to some extent.... I have several friends, acquaintances, and clients who are "middle eastern".. but with that said when was the last time a 40 year old Jewish man hijacked a plane... when was the last time a middle age Latino women tried to set off a bomb hidden in her shoe.. racial/ethnic profiling may make people sad... but it is a useful tool in law enforcement.. don't we know when we are talking about 911 type threats (hijacking, bombs, etc..) that we are generally looking for middle eastern men... not because all middle eastern men are bad (they are obviously not), but instead because that IS the profile.. ignoring race or ethnicity when trying to catch "bad guys" in favor of being "politically correct" is silly.. IMO of course..

 

When I was working behind the fence, I saw reports of threats from around the globe towards our government and allies that ranged from all types of backgrounds. White, Catholic males. Southwest Asian, Islamic, women. East Asian males young enough to be considered minors in our state, etc. I heard of the reports of "super patriots" here in our own country, and other radical groups (from both sides). If any of these, and others, had the means of inflicting damage, they would.

To say that it is a certain group that MUST be dealt with is a slippery slope, and has nothing to do with being PC. I could give two sh-ts about being PC; instead my concern is the protection of my family and my country-- and not losing our humanity in the process. Tell it to the gypsies, Jews, and homosexuals; or the Armenians and Albanians; the Chinese (on their own soil no less); heck, in our own country with the eugenics movement, and discrimination towards blacks, Asians/South Asians, Latinos, Irish, and any other minority that has set foot here. Security is paramount, but at what cost?

 

As for OP, I'm in agreement with his actions. I think the current measures are evasive and inefficient. If security and intel wasn't swirled with bureaucracy when it actually came time to make decisions, maybe it would actually be effective. There are plenty of measures that are more subtle that could be taken... but it almost seems like our government wants a more overt view of what we're doing so that it "eases" the mind of the people... a show of strength. It wouldn't be so pathetic if it wasn't eating up so much of the defense budget.

Going to the airport early today to opt out from my freedom scan.

again.. you have the right not to use that companies services... where do your "rights" end... think of how ridiculous of a world we would live in if everyone had the right to do whatever they wanted.. the point being.. no one is forcing you to fly.. so I don't think you can really claim that they are hindering your ability to free travel by invasive scanning... if the law said "any cop who stops you on the street can arbitrarily give you a full body scan" then yeah.. that is a violation of your rights.... but I think of privately owned planes as being a littler different..

 

The issue is that You and the Airline have a contract. Security is the government standing in between the two of you and sanctioning the transaction.

 

The airlines have a vested interest in making sure your flight is safe. If the TSA rub and tug were to disappear entirely, you can bet your bottom dollar the airlines would have visible armed guards on every flight.

you can bet your bottom dollar the airlines would have visible armed guards on every flight.

 

I think that might actually be a better deterrent, because as we have already seen things do slip by security pretty often..

again.. you have the right not to use that companies services... where do your "rights" end... think of how ridiculous of a world we would live in if everyone had the right to do whatever they wanted.. the point being.. no one is forcing you to fly.. so I don't think you can really claim that they are hindering your ability to free travel by invasive scanning... if the law said "any cop who stops you on the street can arbitrarily give you a full body scan" then yeah.. that is a violation of your rights.... but I think of privately owned planes as being a littler different..

 

It's been shown that these photos ARE leaking out of the airport.

 

Also the jury is still out as to any long term issues due to being bombarded by xrays. My wife has a high risk of cancer due to family history, should she be groped because she chooses to not tempt fate by walking into a xray hot box?

 

In this case you are choosing to have your privacy violated "this" way or "that" way. What kind of choice is that?

 

 

I cannot believe that you'd compare this to the "what if everyone had the right to do whatever they wanted" argument. I've been traveling for years and have no issues with them scanning my bags or going through a metal detector. But these new methods are horribly invasive and I find the trend disturbing.

It's been shown that these photos ARE leaking out of the airport.

 

Also the jury is still out as to any long term issues due to being bombarded by xrays. My wife has a high risk of cancer due to family history, should she be groped because she chooses to not tempt fate by walking into a xray hot box?

 

In this case you are choosing to have your privacy violated "this" way or "that" way. What kind of choice is that?

 

 

I cannot believe that you'd compare this to the "what if everyone had the right to do whatever they wanted" argument. I've been traveling for years and have no issues with them scanning my bags or going through a metal detector. But these new methods are horribly invasive and I find the trend disturbing.

 

I think that having full body scans is ridiculous.. so if I want to.. I can choose not to fly.. you and your wife can make that same choice.. if enough people made that choice it would have a negative financial effect on airlines.. and they would then likely change policy..

 

I do not PERSONALLY like the TSA and what they do.. I PERSONALLY AGREE WITH YOU.. that it is excessive and invasive..

 

but.. I do NOT believe that our constitution guarantees you free unregulated travel on private transportation lines..

you do have the right to not have your privacy violated.. and if you feel that the modern airline security procedures violate your privacy.. there is a solution.. just don't fly..

It's been shown that these photos ARE leaking out of the airport.

Do you have a link to that? I vaguely remember reading an article that discussed how it might be possible, but have yet to see anything that showed it actually happening.

I do not PERSONALLY like the TSA and what they do.. I PERSONALLY AGREE WITH YOU.. that it is excessive and invasive..

 

but.. I do NOT believe that our constitution guarantees you free unregulated travel on private transportation lines..

you do have the right to not have your privacy violated.. and if you feel that the modern airline security procedures violate your privacy.. there is a solution.. just don't fly..

 

I don't think in our current society that's a realistic thing to do for many people but I appreciate your viewpoint.

 

Let's hope that this can be resolved through our legal system. The ACLU (who I usually am wary of) is bringing up lawsuits already.

I've been through the full body scanner at San Francisco Airport. They don't require a pat down afterwards.

 

SAN didn't require everyone going through the scanner to get a pat down but they did require it of my companion. Just seems inefficient to have the scanner plus the pat down.

I don't think in our current society that's a realistic thing to do for many people but I appreciate your viewpoint.

 

Let's hope that this can be resolved through our legal system. The ACLU (who I usually am wary of) is bringing up lawsuits already.

 

 

fair enough... I am more than willing to agree to disagree on that point..

 

see the issue for me personally is I see actual real guaranteed rights getting taking away.. freedom of speech.. gun rights.. real actual rights that are woven into the fabric of what our nation was built on.. and I see minimal outcry.. the loss of those real rights are met with just about complete apathy.. but then when someone's "made up rights" "the right to travel on a plane owned by a company without excessive invasive searching" are violated.. there is this enormous public reaction.. if people in NJ had this much passion for 2A (A REAL "RIGHT")maybe we would get somewhere with it..

Honestly, I would much rather have a TRAINED and WELL EQUIPPED armed guard on my flight, then have some under-trained, under-paid guy who "just got lucky" pat me down and touch my wee-wee. That's just me.

If it was a decent looking chick, then I wouldn't mind the pat down... The GF might though if she's travelling with me

but then when someone's "made up rights" "the right to travel on a plane owned by a company without excessive invasive searching" are violated.. there is this enormous public reaction..

 

That's ridiculous. They have a right to deny you passage, but they do not have a right to violate your person as a qualification to travel. There's a HUGE difference there. I can't find the case law but I seem to remember that the Supreme Court has ruled that such violations of basic rights in exchange for something like travel is beyond the scope of governmental control.

 

So can they say "nope you can't fly"? Yes. But they are not allowed to require you give up an inalienable right in exchange for travel. I don't know how else to explain it to you.