An education site is holding a poll "Should teachers, administrators and school staff carry guns?". One commenter has already expressed their surprise that 17% say "Yes".

Sure, but they better have extra training. Some high school kids nowadays have no respect for authority, feel invincible, and have a wolf pack mentality. What's to stop them from ganging up on Ms. Petite, wrestling her gun away, and causing havoc?

Schools are gun free zones. Your not allowed to bring a gun to school. If they could only get the criminals to follow the rules.

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Haha, let's post some rational pro gun stuff on there!

 

I am not saying we should arm every teacher, but there are many who are capable of safe handling and taking defensive action should the need arise. Besides, if the kids knew some teachers were armed, it might prove to be a deterrent?

I am not in favor of arming teachers in the classroom. Kids can get crazy and go after the teacher and then get ahold of the firearm. Teachers would have to undergo significant amounts of training in order to be able to carry a firearm in a classroom full of children. I can just imagine the parents outrage now. In the town where I live only the school safety officers carry guns and they are full fledge Police Officers from our township PD. I don't think many teachers would want to undergo the necessary training to be able to carry a firearm in that type of environment. Most teachers I now know complain about all the training they currently have to take as continuing ed each year. If a teacher ever had to use deadly force on one of their students I could see see the public outcry now that Mrs./Mr. Teacher shot my kid unnecessarily. If the school is THAT bad with violence then having armed and trained officers with years of experience in firearms is a much better answer.

 

My Mom teaches in elementary school and I cannot see her carrying a gun at all. She's not even if favor of me having guns despite the line of work I am in. She's the type of person that would freeze up during an emergency and not able to react even if she had a weapon to deploy.

our schools have an officer in them now.

I am all for teachers ccw'ing if they get the training.

Sorry.... I am not in favor of it either....

Not teachers... but we are going to have to start protecting our schools more very soon. You are goingto see a spike in gang violence at schools very soon as drug wars spread their turfs.

On another site I belong to there is a teacher from near Los Angeles who is thinking about quitting due to school shootings and violence.

I am not against it, but there are a lot of details to be worked out first. Like CC, it should not be known which teacher is carrying. They would need to go through more training like weapon retention, etc because they could be a target unlike Joe Citizen in the mall. But, think of the lawsuits if Little Johny was shot accidentaly no matter the circumstsnce. I think it would turn into a nightmare for the teacher and the taxpayer even if it happened while preventing a tragedy that would have resulted in more carnage.

Not to start a flame war, but I'm interested in the reasoning behind some of you comments.

 

I am not in favor of arming teachers in the classroom. Kids can get crazy and go after the teacher and then get ahold of the firearm. Teachers would have to undergo significant amounts of training in order to be able to carry a firearm in a classroom full of children.

 

So are you against anyone carrying a gun a public place? "Crowds" can be substituted for the word "kids" and the same thing holds true. And don't you agree that anyone, not just teachers, should get training before carrying a firearm in public at all? I'm not advocating government mandatory training, but as Uncle Owen said, "With great power comes great responsibility."

 

I can just imagine the parents outrage now. In the town where I live only the school safety officers carry guns and they are full fledge Police Officers from our township PD.

 

We already have outrage from the anti's about anybody who carries in public. Why should anyone, including teachers, give up their rights to quell the outrage from people who are uncomfortable with others exercising those rights?

 

I don't think many teachers would want to undergo the necessary training to be able to carry a firearm in that type of environment. Most teachers I now know complain about all the training they currently have to take as continuing ed each year. If a teacher ever had to use deadly force on one of their students I could see see the public outcry now that Mrs./Mr. Teacher shot my kid unnecessarily. If the school is THAT bad with violence then having armed and trained officers with years of experience in firearms is a much better answer.

 

I don't think anybody is suggesting that teachers should be forced to carry a firearm while on the job. Anyone who has the mindset to carry a gun will go get whatever training they think they need. I would submit that most teachers that you know would never carry a gun at all, let alone on the job, so you can't use them as a fair example. You're also advocating, intentionally or not, for a police state by suggesting that the police should be the only ones allowed to carry in schools, and not giving the same option to all the adults in the same environment.

 

My Mom teaches in elementary school and I cannot see her carrying a gun at all. She's not even if favor of me having guns despite the line of work I am in. She's the type of person that would freeze up during an emergency and not able to react even if she had a weapon to deploy.

 

Again, you're blurring the idea of permitting teachers to carry in schools with the idea that ALL teachers should be required to carry in schools.

Not Sure about teachers, but I should certainly be allowed to CCW!

Sorry.... I am not in favor of it either....

 

Care to elaborate, or is this one of those "Because I said so!" things?

 

I am not against it, but there are a lot of details to be worked out first. Like CC, it should not be known which teacher is carrying. They would need to go through more training like weapon retention, etc because they could be a target unlike Joe Citizen in the mall. But, think of the lawsuits if Little Johny was shot accidentaly no matter the circumstsnce. I think it would turn into a nightmare for the teacher and the taxpayer even if it happened while preventing a tragedy that would have resulted in more carnage.

 

I think there's a bit of a disconnect in your logic. You are claiming that a teacher carrying would be a more likely target for someone to take a weapon from, but I would argue that 99% of teachers would never carry, even if given the option. So would you also suggest that those 99% of teachers would have to be required to take hand-to-hand combat training in the event that somebody thinks they have a gun and they really don't? It occurs to me that the anti's always claim that our guns will be taken from us and used against us, but I don't read about that happening very often.

 

As for the lawsuits? They say that every bullet has a lawyer attached to it, so the risk is no different that if you defend yourself in an apartment and a stray round hits the kid sleeping in the next apartment. Rule 4 applies to everyone who pulls the trigger in defense of their lives, regardless of occupation or location.

Big Hayden said it all. +1

 

Why would you want to support gun-free zones, that ultimately can become killing fields. Some of these responses sound like the typical anti drivel. "Only the police have enough training", "What if someone took the gun away", etc. etc. Why would you restrict a teachers or administrator's right to self defense, or the defense of your children? Haven't we learned our lesson yet? How many more school shootings does there need to be before we see the wisdom of having countermeasures on-site, rather than rely on LE and the amount of time it takes them to react. Some of you have been drinking the kool-aid too long. Ohhhhh, I understand, it's for the children.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Care to elaborate, or is this one of those "Because I said so!" things?

 

 

 

 

 

Nope..... Just feel that there are other ways to protect our children then armed teachers...

Nope..... Just feel that there are other ways to protect our children then armed teachers...

 

 

you are not protecting the children.. you are empowering a law abiding citizen to carry a gun to protect themselves if they so feel inclined to do so..isn't that a right all of us complain over not having all day long..

 

the right to carry should not be limited in any way.. you are a law abiding citizen then why should your rights be limited?

 

as pointed out it is just like the antis saying.. yeah we allow CCW.. but there just has to be a reasonable justifiable need for it.. no one should have the right to limit another individuals right to protection..

I don't think it is a good idea. Someone mentioned the wolfpack mentality of kids and I agree with that on some level. Of course, if we know we have kids with that capability should they even be in school? If we kept kids like that out of school and only had to worry about the trench coat mafia bully revenge type shooter, than yes a teacher with a gun may help.

 

I don't think it will ever happen, not in NJ. We have cops in schools, I'm sure parents prefer that option.

 

 

 

 

I think there's a bit of a disconnect in your logic. You are claiming that a teacher carrying would be a more likely target for someone to take a weapon from, but I would argue that 99% of teachers would never carry, even if given the option. So would you also suggest that those 99% of teachers would have to be required to take hand-to-hand combat training in the event that somebody thinks they have a gun and they really don't? It occurs to me that the anti's always claim that our guns will be taken from us and used against us, but I don't read about that happening very often.

 

As for the lawsuits? They say that every bullet has a lawyer attached to it, so the risk is no different that if you defend yourself in an apartment and a stray round hits the kid sleeping in the next apartment. Rule 4 applies to everyone who pulls the trigger in defense of their lives, regardless of occupation or location.

There is no disconnect. I agree that most teachers would opt not to carry but the ones that do had better know how to use it. In my real world training I was always taught that when I entered a situation armed, chances are I was the one introducing a gun to the environment. SO I had better not pull it out without the express intent on using it and I had better know how to keep it either in my hand or holster. Yes the teacher will becaome a target if they are percieved as weak and someone in their class wants their gun. There are kids shooting up schools already, so do not think they will not make a plan based upon aquiring the Teachers gun. As I wrote the teacher has just brought the gun to the classroom. Hand to hand is up to them. As I said I am not against it , but they need to go through a bit more training. If we are letting teachers arm themselves to protect the Schoolchildren, then they need to be trained how to do so or they are a danger. There is a differnce in CC for personal protection and repelling borders.

 

This is not an anti vs gun owner debate in here, this is opinions and brainstorming to see the potential good/harm it could cause. And develop a plan to implement it is possible. We need a little thicker skin amongst ourselves if we truly want to go out into the political world.

 

Rule 4, I am looking at through the PC world we live in full of lawsuits and the direct impact it will have on my property taxes. One lawsuit would end Teachers Carrying in school. There are many things to be taken account for and fixed before hand.

 

There is more to it than just strapping on a gun. I venture to say most people here have never carried a gun and do not have full appreciation for the responsability and potential consequences it brings. Not that that disqaulifies anyones opinions, it does not. I am just saying once you are forced to draw lots of things go through your head, then and afterwards.

 

as pointed out it is just like the antis saying.. yeah we allow CCW.. but there just has to be a reasonable justifiable need for it.. no one should have the right to limit another individuals right to protection..

I agree, but if we are relying on the teachers to protect the kids, then they need to be trained how to do so, just like any other proffesion that is armed for the protection of others.

I think every law abiding citizen, no matter what there job is should be able to carry. There should be nothing about this job is more dangerous. Why shouldn't the pizza delivery guy, or the gas station attendant be able to carry.

I agree, but if we are relying on the teachers to protect the kids, then they need to be trained how to do so, just like any other proffesion that is armed for the protection of others.

 

 

teachers are teachers.. not security guards.. we are expecting them to teach.. not protect kids.. and in that capacity there should be nothing prohibiting them from carrying..

 

should I have to have a special license if I carry at my child's birthday party? or at the playground? or anywhere else a situation could become unstable?

 

putting stipulations on carry is exactly what got us to where we are now..

A bit of a different view:

 

When teachers agree to pay-for-performance, the abolishment of tenure, the disbanding of the the NJ Extortion Association and those putting in their time are weeded out - then I would consider it. In the meanwhile I would not trust many of them with a red pen!

teachers are teachers.. not security guards.. we are expecting them to teach.. not protect kids.. and in that capacity there should be nothing prohibiting them from carrying..

 

should I have to have a special license if I carry at my child's birthday party? or at the playground? or anywhere else a situation could become unstable?

 

putting stipulations on carry is exactly what got us to where we are now..

If we are expressly allowing teachers to carry in schools, then we are relying on them as security guards, and they need to be trained as one.

 

I personally do not believe in any stipulation for carry by a law abiding citizen, but if you want to use them to keep the school safe, as this thread suggests, then they need to be trained how to.

If we are expressly allowing teachers to carry in schools, then we are relying on them as security guards, and they need to be trained as one.

 

I personally do not believe in any stipulation for carry by a law abiding citizen, but if you want to use them to keep the school safe, as this thread suggests, then they need to be trained how to.

 

 

by default it is my opinion that an armed society is a safe society..

 

I am legally allowed to carry in PA.. that allowance does not qualify me as a security guard.. I understand what you are saying.. but at the end of the day.. teachers.. contractors.. delivery men.. should ALL be allowed to carry.. is it not hypocritical to fight for your right to carry.. but then ignore a small movement to allow another group to carry.. each legitimate reason that is recognized is one more step towards the global recognition of a right to carry..

 

if cops can carry because they are in harms way..

if teachers can carry to combat classroom violence..

if delivery guys can carry to protect the cash they carry..

 

you are one step closer to saying hey all these people carry guns and the world has not ended..

Vlad, we are close to agreeing, because you have a valid point. I too believe everyone should have the right to carry. But in combating classromm violenct the teache is assuming responsability of protecting the kids in class. It requires a different skill set and mentality than just taking cash to the bank. Just as the Police do.

Vlad, we are close to agreeing, because you have a valid point. I too believe everyone should have the right to carry. But in combating classromm violenct the teache is assuming responsability of protecting the kids in class. It requires a different skill set and mentality than just taking cash to the bank. Just as the Police do.

 

 

I carry to combat the violence I may encounter on the street.. I am as trained as I have paid for myself to be.. but there is no obligation for me to train.. if a violent psycho snatched up a kid at knife point and was yelling and screaming about killing them.. would I not shoot them because I have not been trained to? would I ignore the situation due to the extreme situation that has presented itself.. a regular average every day guy could be confronted with a single armed criminal or an entire terrorist group attempting to take control of a theme park.. there are such intense extremes that could present themselves.. the thought that teachers should not carry due to the weight of having a gun in a classroom environment is foreign to me.. guns are safe..

 

so back to the issue you have with teachers..if a teacher is required to qualify.. then why not the average citizen who will at times be around just as many kids.... take a look at the boardwalk.. how many stupid drunk arguments occur there.. in which several people get involved in a fight.. if I am carrying on the boardwalk and am jumped... retaining my weapon may be hard.. so is there a special limitation there as well?

 

like I said.. the second you make room for any restrictions that you see as reasonable.. you open the flood gate for that justifiable need nonsense.. you say a teacher needs special training.. someone else says a nj transit bus driver needs special training.. someone else says the cab driver needs special training..

 

training is key to any responsible gun ownership.. and SHOULD be acquired.. but forcing it is where we disconnect..

There is no disconnect. I agree that most teachers would opt not to carry but the ones that do had better know how to use it. In my real world training I was always taught that when I entered a situation armed, chances are I was the one introducing a gun to the environment. SO I had better not pull it out without the express intent on using it and I had better know how to keep it either in my hand or holster.

 

Doesn't that hold true regardless of the firearm carrier's occupation? You're saying that anyone who wants to carry a gun should be trained, and I agree with you. But I don't think they need any special training that would differ from anyone else who wants to carry. Again, I don't think there should be any kind of government mandated training, but getting training is the responsible thing to do.

 

Yes the teacher will becaome a target if they are percieved as weak and someone in their class wants their gun. There are kids shooting up schools already, so do not think they will not make a plan based upon aquiring the Teachers gun. As I wrote the teacher has just brought the gun to the classroom.

 

If 99% of teachers aren't carrying, it wouldn't be a very effective plan to "aquire the Teacher's gun." They have a 99% chance of getting it wrong. If the plan is to get the gun from the teacher and then kill people, that isn't a very good plan. If they are planning to kill the teacher first because they might be armed, how does that make the situation any different from if they know that the teacher isn't armed?

 

Hand to hand is up to them. As I said I am not against it , but they need to go through a bit more training. If we are letting teachers arm themselves to protect the Schoolchildren, then they need to be trained how to do so or they are a danger. There is a differnce in CC for personal protection and repelling borders.

 

What "more training" would they need that anybody else who is going to carry a gun does not?

 

This is not an anti vs gun owner debate in here, this is opinions and brainstorming to see the potential good/harm it could cause. And develop a plan to implement it is possible. We need a little thicker skin amongst ourselves if we truly want to go out into the political world.

 

Agreed 100%. I'm certainly not upset/angry over this. I'm asking questions to either get you to convince me I'm wrong or so that you might see the error in your view. I believe this thread has been civil and will remain that way even as we disagree.

 

Rule 4, I am looking at through the PC world we live in full of lawsuits and the direct impact it will have on my property taxes. One lawsuit would end Teachers Carrying in school. There are many things to be taken account for and fixed before hand.

 

Your property taxes pay for the police force, and they can be sued for shooting someone accidentally.

 

There is more to it than just strapping on a gun. I venture to say most people here have never carried a gun and do not have full appreciation for the responsability and potential consequences it brings. Not that that disqaulifies anyones opinions, it does not. I am just saying once you are forced to draw lots of things go through your head, then and afterwards.

 

I don't believe that anyone is suggesting we hand out guns to teachers who aren't willing to take the responsibility seriously. When we talk about allowing teachers/faculty to carry in schools, we're talking about responsible gun owners, like all of us.

 

If we are expressly allowing teachers to carry in schools, then we are relying on them as security guards, and they need to be trained as one.

 

I personally do not believe in any stipulation for carry by a law abiding citizen, but if you want to use them to keep the school safe, as this thread suggests, then they need to be trained how to.

 

How on earth did you jump to that conclusion? Allowing anybody to carry does not imply that they are to be relied on as security guards.

 

Not sure where you got that idea either... First post said:

An education site is holding a poll "Should teachers, administrators and school staff carry guns?". One commenter has already expressed their surprise that 17% say "Yes".

 

I don't see anything in there about using teachers to keep the school safe, it was a simple poll about letting adults who work in the school carry on the job.

There is a difference between myself carrying a weapon and a police officer. My responsibility is to protect myself and loved ones if they are accompanying me. I just have to know how to sufficiently defend myself to get us out of a bad spot. Putting myself in harm's way to protect strangers is a choice for me, but not an obligation.

A police officer's job is to interject himself into trouble spots. He is not fighting to escape trouble, but rather to end it. His obligations are to defend himself and civilians. That is a far different, and far bigger responsibility than I have. His job requires a different type of (and I would venture to say, much more) training than a civilian practicing self defense through concealed carry.

If we are to assume that the poll meant for teachers to be the safeguards of children in the school and not just armed citizens, then the issue of arming teachers presents a problem because we are asking them to do more than we are obligated to do for ourselves. It is not a simple matter of right-to-carry, we are talking about them having an obligation to defend children. That puts their job responsibilities a lot closer to that of a police officer than armed civilian.

Besides, most teachers are liberal wussbags and wouldn't go near a gun. I should know. I used to be one (the former, not the latter)

I do not get it. Why else would we be talking about arming teachers if not for the express purpose of protecting the schools and Kids? They armed pilots to protect planes, they would arm teachers to protect schools. And if they allow it it is to protect and requires a different training level. I can only say the same thing so many times. Otherwise it would read EVERYONE should carry everywhere, but it only reads teachers.

 

Obviously carrying a gun is the only thing some of you want out of life. Maybe it is me, I have carried before and will again if given the opportunity, but it is not the be all end all for me.

We will just agree to have different opinions on this.