Vlad, I do understand your position. But I asked for budget and got no reply from the OP, so when asked I picked a solid mid level, mid priced optic. With that being said and having discussed optics with many here, it is no secret I have a buy once cry once mentality particulerly toward optics. I am of the opinion to eliminate equipment so you always know YOU are the problem. I have seen so many go down the road of cheap optics to come back to me and say, I have now spent more because I went cheap to begin with and still ended up buying the scope you recomended when the cheap ones failed or didnt do xyz. Im not stuck on brands, Im stuck on features and capabilities and which scopes have the fewest compromises.

 

For those playing along, there are many considerations for optics other than the ones we have mostly focussed on in this thread. The considerations run the entire gambit of robustness, repeatability, FFP/SFP, weight, Chromatic Abheration etc etc etc. Optics discussions are as DEEP as you are willing to chase down the rabbit hole. The more features you require and the greater the capability, the more you will pay which gets right back to what I said earlier, figure out what criteria needs to be met and what compromises you are willing to make.

Vlad, I do understand your position. But I asked for budget and got no reply from the OP, so when asked I picked a solid mid level, mid priced optic. With that being said and having discussed optics with many here, it is no secret I have a buy once cry once mentality particulerly toward optics. I am of the opinion to eliminate equipment so you always know YOU are the problem. I have seen so many go down the road of cheap optics to come back to me and say, I have now spent more because I went cheap to begin with and still ended up buying the scope you recomended when the cheap ones failed or didnt do xyz. Im not stuck on brands, Im stuck on features and capabilities and which scopes have the fewest compromises.

 

The man linked a Nikon and a Leupold. These are not scopes that fail under normal or even serious use. No, you can't hammer nails with them like the Nightforce salesman likes to do, but who does that? WHEN he knows what his taste in reticules is he can buy the exact scope he wants and move the other one on a .22, a secondary wife/gf gun, or even sell them because they hold their value reasonably well, he wasn't linking Barska's or Tasco's. On the there hand if he buys an expensive scope now, with a reticule I like or one you like, he ends up having less money to spend on ammo, doesn't shoot as much, and at the end when he knows what he really wants it may not be what he already spend lots of money on.

At the risk of interfering with everyones fun, I'm curious if any of you 3 windbags ( ) have an opinion on the Vortex Viper PST?

 

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope-with-tmcq-moa-reticle

 

It was recently brought to my attention by another forum member, and while I don't expect it to compete with a $1000+ scope, some of the features seem to put it in the realm of the $800 scopes, but at a lower price point. Any thoughts?

I'd like to actually see one myself, the folks that have them seem to like them:

 

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=119710&hl=pst&st=0

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=120336&st=0&p=1413762&hl=pst&fromsearch=1entry1413762

I havent had hands on any PST's but the word is 2.5X10 = good, 4x16 = meh, 6x24 = very good.

 

On the 1x4... I think Id save a few bucks more and get the SWFA 1x4. Read a few side by sides and really like the ret in the SWFA. MY BIGGEST HISITATION is I just dont know if I could bring myself to buy something named super sniper!!!

Thanks for the links and observations guys. I also briefly looked at the SWFA 1-4 as it seems to come up quite often in discussions of the Vortex PST 1-4. I think I could live with the "super sniper" since I would just call it the "SS".. I'm not sure how i feel about the bug eyed chicken logo tho...

Petey was talking about me actually, haha (yea, called you out). I just pulled the trigger on it, so I guess I'll share some thoughts about the Viper PST 1-4x when it comes in and I get some range time with it.

 

ETA: I do plan on running this scope in the carbine course (MDTS 1&2) next month-- so, assuming I do, I'll give some feedback based on that as well.

Pfft and here I am trying to respect your privacy

 

DISCLAIMER! I am now talking about what I want for ME!

 

I sold off the Elcan Specter DR. Trying to decide what I want for my rifle thats inbound. I want something low in weight. Spent all that freeking money to keep weight down, dont want to make it fat again with an optic. I like 1x4 optics but due to the rifles accuracy and range, I want more mag. US Optics 1.5X6 is just too heavy. Looking at Swaro Z6I Brt but dont have any real intel on it yet.

 

My criteria:

 

Low weight

Mildot ret

Daylight usable illum center dot or cross hair

precision cross hair when dot is off

Robust

repeatability

MIL/MIL

FFP

 

I thought about a Acog TA11 and a red dot on a 45 but I shoot practical multigun not 3 gun. That means we sometimes shoot week side barracade so Im not sure how I could use the RDS on a right side 45 mount and I just dont dig the chin weld thing with the piggy back style mount....

Did you get the TMCQ ret?

Did you get the TMCQ ret?

 

Got the TMCQ MRAD ret, though mostly because the TMCQ MOA ret was OOS. I preferred the MOA ret, but I figure learning MRAD could have some value, esp if I get into precision shooting down the road.

MRAD is the way to go IMO. To many MOA's in MOA Only 1 kind of MRAD. I do like the TMCQ ret. I await your range report :mail:

note to self: google mrad vs. moa

Haven't checked this thread for awhile and noticed a lot of activity !

 

Just an update: I decided to get the Nikon M-223 3X12X42 with the BDC reticle since the AR I decided to use was one chambered for .223 only, 18" fluted barrel. I had fun zeroing at Old Bridge on Monday and am anxious to try the BDC reticle at longer ranges. I am happy with this scope as they (SWFA) also included the Nikon M-223 mount.

 

Ed

Haven't checked this thread for awhile and noticed a lot of activity !

 

Just an update: I decided to get the Nikon M-223 3X12X42 with the BDC reticle since the AR I decided to use was one chambered for .223 only, 18" fluted barrel. I had fun zeroing at Old Bridge on Monday and am anxious to try the BDC reticle at longer ranges. I am happy with this scope as they (SWFA) also included the Nikon M-223 mount.

 

Ed

 

Awesome let me know how that goes.

So ColdShot, by the looks of your rig I think its safe to say my assumptions that you were looking for something more on the precision side were accurate?

Yes Shane, wanted something to plink at mid-long distances

I'm trying to figure out what infant now. I'll be shooting at the range 100 yards and in. Might take it out to the d.o.d. And possiblly stretch it's legs but I'll mostly be 30-100 yards. Leaning towards eotech with flip to side magnifier. Also like aimpoint

For the distances listed, an aimpoint is near impossible to beat unless you want to make bug holes. In my opinion, if you like true cowittness the T1 micro is great. If you like lower 1/3rd cowitt the m4 is great.

I agree with Shane, aimpoint is the answer. I would steer clear of eotech, their battery life is terrible ($70 chinese red dots do 3 times better on battery life, and thats pathetic) and I've seen them break over and over again.

In my opinion, if you like true cowittness the T1 micro is great. If you like lower 1/3rd cowitt the m4 is great.

I'm curious why you say that. I run an H1 on a lower 1/3 mount on my ARs and have never noticed an issue

Shane commented to me on that - he said the T1/H1 is so small that 1/3 cowitness can be hard to see. I could try 1/3 co-witness with my SPARC but I prefer regular co-witness.

One word of warning about zeroing irons in conjecture with a red dot. Make sure you zero the irons THROUGH the red dot, not with the red dot off the gun. Yes, they are as parallax free as they can be, but your zero will be slightly different when you view your front sight through the red dot lenses. Close up it doesn't matter, add a bit of range and it does. Or at least it does for me, your millage may vary.

Cain it's more preference I think. The realestate of a micro being smaller, to me, means your sight picture is cluttered even in lower 1/3 so if you like true cowitt might as well center it up, its a nice setup. With the larger glass of the M3/M4 its a bit easier to have a setup where the irons are low and more out of view. I likely should have added that if you use flips and leave them down all the time then it probably doesnt matter. On my rifles with M3/4 my irons are always up. On my rifle with a Micro they are usually down.

 

Vlad, we are getting a trend going here

Thanks Shane - I guess I'm more tolerant than most, since I use fixed sights with the H1

I agree with Shane, aimpoint is the answer. I would steer clear of eotech, their battery life is terrible ($70 chinese red dots do 3 times better on battery life, and thats pathetic) and I've seen them break over and over again.

I find this comment to be a bit of a stretch from the truth. I don't want to start a eotech vs aimpoint feud, so i'll leave it at that unless you have specif proof of your claims.

I find this comment to be a bit of a stretch from the truth. I don't want to start a eotech vs aimpoint feud, so i'll leave it at that unless you have specif proof of your claims.

 

I don't have physical proof/data in my hands, but I know first-hand (from the field and my own personal civilian usage) that EOTechs do not last nearly as long as Aimpoints in an "on" position. There's a reason why EOTechs have the built-in feature of turning off if left on for X amount of time. Aimpoints on the other hand I have left in the 8-position for months now, and there has been no degradation of quality. It does depend on which battery the specific HWS is using (N bat vs. AA for example).

I find this comment to be a bit of a stretch from the truth. I don't want to start a eotech vs aimpoint feud, so i'll leave it at that unless you have specif proof of your claims.

 

What would constitute proof in your eyes? I've seen two eotech's go down in the same match, both on the guns of Union swat team guys. I've seen other competitors have problems with the battery compartment contacts go flat. I've shot one that went blank at every shot from the contacts losing touch of the battery. I've seen people use them on USPSA open pistols (which is silly anyway, but that's different issue) go through batteries.

 

Are they all bad? I have no idea, but I haven't seen an aimpoint die yet, and I've seen eotech's die, a lot. Who knows, maybe I'm just an unlucky witness and my presence makes them die. All I know is I won't buy one. I also hang out on forums where serious people who's life may depend on their optics have had similar experiences, but that is anecdotal.

 

BTW, their website claims battery life around 600h on a CR123. Aimpoint claims 5 years on a friking watch battery, and I have cheap chinese dots, on the same watch battery who have lasted more then 600h.

 

EDIT: Correction, in retrospect, of the two eotechs from Union SWAT guys, one failed hard, one had its ARMS mount fail, so I won't blame that one eotech.

My experience has been the same as Vlad's. Also, the ret of an Eo is very grainy to me.

My experience has been the same as Vlad's. Also, the ret of an Eo is very grainy to me.

 

Then you probably have astigmatism, just like I do. I wasn't going to **** about that because its eye dependent, for some people the reticule is nice and clean for some its not. I actually like the idea of that reticule, just doesn't work for me.