Being a member on numerous different gun forums, a topic that people are always talking and posting about is what would you do if you had an intruder in your home.

 

Now I don't want to talk about what gun you would use or this light is better than that light crap, I want to talk about the two main options you have if you awoke hearing someone breaking into your home.

 

 

Option 1 - Room clearing and searching the house

This is an option that I would say most people want or would like to do. I see a lot of people posting about room clearing drills or whatever and how they would do this vs. that or 'I just bought this nightvision for clearing my house', we can go on about that. But what I feel a lot of people don't know is that room clearing takes a lot of practice to be proficient at. It takes numerous drills and repeating those drills over and over again (not to say the RIGHT drills and learning the RIGHT way) to attain the skills needed in clearing a house/apartment/resident correctly. I could see someone such as an LEO or military officer wanting to take this action if this scenario occurred, but it is a bit more difficult for me to understand why so many civilian gun owners want to go this route. Ok, we all want to clear a house and take out 4 BG's while clearing each room with a TLR-1 and our AR. But is this really feasible?

 

Some barely practice or don't really practice at all in reference to room clearing drills. They think if the scenario arises, they will somehow go into commando mode and clear their house and take action on whatever needs to be done and that's it. They don't 'need' to take HD classes, or defensive classes, because they think they know all the in's and out's that trained SWAT officers have.

Then there are the others who might have taken a couple classes on defense inside the home, or practice room clearing drills at the range or at home. On the internet, they still come off like wanna-be commando's...just cause they do. I'm sure all aren't, but it is what it is. At least they are practicing what to do in a situation like that, rather than having no practice and expecting to be Dick Marcinko when the bad guys break in.

 

 

Option 2 - Barricading a room and waiting for BG('s)

These seems to be the option of the more reserved or conservative gun owners. Grab the kids and the wife or any other family members, or just yourself, lock the bedroom door, call 911, and have a fully loaded 12ga pointed at the door. This is much more feasible for people not wanting to poke their heads out into the room where footsteps are heard, people who do not feel room clearing is safe, or people that just don't feel the need to room clear. You can practice at the range and take defensive classes while practicing malfunc's and other scenarios and other problems, all while not having to feel to take on the role of walking through your house in the middle of the night and possibly not knowing where the BG is.

 

 

I chose not to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of either option. I'd like to see what everyone comes up with, what option they would choose and why, and what they think about this topic as a whole as I see lots of posts on this (be it here or other forums) but never any peaceful discussions about it.

Frankly, I would opt for #2. I am not looking for an encounter. I would rather hole up in my bedroom, protecting myself and fiance, and wait for police to come. I don't have the training for room clearing, and am well aware enough of my limitations. I am a fairly decent shot. That is all. My gun would be for any intruder foolish enough to enter after being warned. I live in the suburbs. If I were rural and response time were slower, I would probably have a different answer.

If there was an active intruder in the house, or a door or window being smashed open woke us up, Personally I'd opt for the barricade option and call 911. If they were using a cellphone jammer (cheap, easily to get, and what I would do if I was a bad-guy), and cut the phone lines, I would pop open a window and lay a string of rounds into the ground. That will get the neighbors attention to call the cops for me.

 

I'm not professionally trained to take on room clearing, and even for those who are, the risks and dangers are pretty immense even with all the proper equipment , i.e. shields, armor, lights, distraction tools,etc. Me in my boxers with handgun/light in hand with no training or practice qualifies me for taking cover and aiming at the door waiting for a bad-guy to come in. I would focus on situational awareness, maintaining control, and friend or foe ID as top priorities.

Interesting POV's so far. I agree with the above posters so far as well.

 

Easily said, I would take option #2 over option #1 anyday. I think it also depends on the situation, the house, the scenario where you live, etc, but for the most part, I will be barricaded in a room with one of my HD guns at hand, 911 on the phone, and will be waiting for anyone who dares step through that door. Yes, they can be stealing whatever they want or doing whatever they want as I am bunkered in the room, but with 911 on the line and the PD coming, I feel that this has many less disadvantages rather than room clearing.

 

Personally, I feel that option #1 has many more disadvantages then advantages. I feel you are at a huge disadvantage stepping outside your room, be it if you have a 800 lumen flashlight and a top of the line AR or a maglite and a Glock or no flashlight at all and a 12ga or any gun for the fact of the matter. The BG most likely WILL be waiting for you as soon as they hear you unless you leave your room and plan to hide behind something (couch, wall, etc) and wait for them. Sure, I plan on taking HD classes and defensive classes this summer but even after that I do not feel that I have the want or nees to step outside of a completely safe room to put myself out there.

Option #2....

I am going to run with the thought this is happening at 0 dark 30.

 

I train with firearms for one main reason, to protect my family. They are the only things that matter to me, all the rest ofthe stuff in my life is fluff. The only reason I really like my house is the landing at the top of my stairs, is perfectly situated for me as a left hander to commandt the center of my home and the access to the upstairs. I also have light controls available to me, and I am the obstacle between BG and my kids. The wife knows to roll out side of bed and call 911 and to stay down. The entire time I am covering the stairwell, while somewhat behined concealement / cover, i am calling out that the police are on their way, take what you want, the TV is easy to remove, the computer is in the den, there are expensive tools in the workroom, but do not attemtp to come upstairs or you will be shot many times with a large caliber firearm. I hope they try take it all. It is all insured and replaceable. The amount will slow them down, easier for the LEO to track and eventually they will be caught trying to pawn the items. But do not come near the stairwell.

 

The things that scares me about Option 1 is the mistakes that can be made are potentially deadly for me, my family or one of my idiot buddies that thinks it would be fun to wake me up in the middle of the night and sneak in our house.

 

I will leave Option 1 to the guys who dont get paid enough, yet do that job.

Option 1 - Room clearing and searching the house ... it is a bit more difficult for me to understand why so many civilian gun owners want to go this route.

 

Because most people are idiots with experience based on video games, movies, and internet forums who think their superficial factoids make them experts. There is a term for this, the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

People, take a class with a reputable trainer before you start thinking you are in any way qualified to discuss the topic, much less act out any SOCOM Ninja Operator fantasies. The class won't make you an expert but it will show you how little you really know and how much you suck compared to people who really know what they are doing.

Not to be egotistical, but given the time stamps on these posts, I have to think that my response here...

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22731-sellior-bellot-buckshot/page__pid__302888#entry302888

 

...may have been the impetus for this thread. My feelings are expressed in that reply, which thus far seems to dovetail with the other posts here.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Bob, had to +1 you for your reply here and in the S&B thread. Room clearing is a disaster waiting to happen. Practising it with live ammo is even worse

I think A LOT of it depends on three things. First thing being the layout of your house, second being how many people you have living in your house, third being how many people you think broke into your house.

 

Considering all that into my situation, I have a relative small house that would be "easy" to clear. There are three bedrooms, mine being in the middle, I could hear if anyone was moving around in both of the other bedrooms. At the other end of the hallway is the living room, and the kitchen on the side. Those are the ONLY rooms I have to worry about. It's also just me and my father, who also wouldn't just sit idly by while someone steals our stuff. No kids or women to worry about. That being said, if I wake up hearing my door bust down and 8 guys rush in, I'm gonna hide in the freakin closet. If it's one, maybe two guys.....I will likely confront them.

I've had some professional training, and shooting under high stress and in low light/no light is not easy or fun. That being said Option #2 is the only option for the scenario posted; with the exception being if you have children/relatives sleeping on a different floor (I'm sure there are a few other similar exceptions, but I'll go with this one)

 

Nothing is my home is worth dieing for, except my family. They can take whatever they want. If they try and come upstairs - all bets are off.

Guys, all you have to do is lay down some claymores in front of any entry points right before you go to sleep and you'll be fine. Duh.

 

But seriously, even if I had the training, I wouldn't consider doing number one unless there was family somewhere else in the house that were unaware of the intruder, otherwise they'd probably be armed as well.

This being NJ and all, with a duty to retreat, if you find someone while doing a room search in option 1 and shoot them you are up the proverbial creek. Option 2 is the only way you are going to have a reasonable chance of not changing your address to the grey bar hotel.

Pizzabob, I just read your post in the other thread that you linked to. I personally did not think you came off harsh, you were just expressing your strong feelings on the topic.

 

I'm honestly a bit surprised that there aren't more "I would definitely clear my house" replies. Sounds like we really have some safe and knowledgeable gun owners on here. I'd like to maybe start this thread up on a more national forum like TFL or THR and see what their responses are compared to ours.

 

I can't agree with VJF's post. Personally, I think confronting a BG or someone with most likely a weapon or firearm is just asking for trouble, whether your house is a small ranch or a 5,000sq ft mansion. But we all have our different opinions.

 

Looking at RayRay's thread, I'd like to see what he thinks about this or anyone else that would prefer to clear their house.

 

Interesting posts so far. Keep em coming!

This being NJ and all, with a duty to retreat, if you find someone while doing a room search in option 1 and shoot them you are up the proverbial creek. Option 2 is the only way you are going to have a reasonable chance of not changing your address to the grey bar hotel.

 

Misinformation. In your own home in NJ, you do not have a duty to retreat.

 

That being said, if you know there is an intruder in your house, and you go looking for them from a place of safety with the capacity to call for help, that can get messy from a legal perspective. If not from criminal law, certainly from civil law perspectives. All IMO of course.

I'm not about to go clearing rooms in the house, even though I do have a better understanding of the layout and hiding spots, I think it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

I have changed my doors to the bedroom to a solid core door with a good lock on it and did the same for my daughters bedroom. We have a plan in place for both fire and home invasion but no matter how many times you practice it you can never anticipate how or where someone might be by the time you know there is someone in the house. I don't have a dog so no real early warning system. I do have an alarm on the house and it doesn't have the name of any company on it, being people who have worked for alarm companies or some internet searches can get in in no time.

 

Also depending on where I and my wife and daughter are at the time and who is in danger would be another factor. I guess each scenario would have to be looked at at the time. I'd like to think I am prepared and I am to the bast of my knowledge but here is my ideal situation.

 

My house is lit on the outside, I have an alarm, I have an alarm sign, my neighbors don't all have signs or alarms and some are not lit up outside so I would hope I am the last pick for someone to invade a home in my neighborhood.

 

If not like I said above it would depend on who was where at the time. If all of us are able to be in one room, I'll wait for them to break into that room while my wife and daughter are in the closet inside that room. They have cell pones and landlines in the room, and I also keep an old cell pone on a charge in the closet, it's one of my old ones that doesn't have service but still works for 911.

 

We also have a few wights, small 2/12 lbs ones, both have an attached layout of the house and where we are located to be tossed through the window for responding LEOS, the second one is for the when first one under pressure misses.

 

Hopefully I will have intervention by LE before I have to take action, but even though I never want to take a life of a person, Myself and family are first and foremost and regardless of what heppens I would rather be tried by 12 then caried by 6.

 

By the way, we practice fire and invasion drills at least twice a year when we change the clocks as a rule.

 

Harry

I only have my kids with me a few nights a week since I'm divorced, but if they were with me I'd have to at least go round them up since I live in a ranch house. If I was alone I'd just stay put and play that scene from Home Alone with all the machine gun fire!

Because most people are idiots with experience based on video games, movies, and internet forums who think their superficial factoids make them experts. There is a term for this, the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

I'm surrounded by the Dunning-Kruger all day long at work!

 

From a video game perspective it might seem like a bad-a** idea to make any punk who dares to break into my house pay the price. However, from a perspective of logic I know that the more I move the higher the chance I'm injured in some manner. I don't want to be killed by my gun or anyone else's in my own home. I will barricade myself upstairs and only fire if necessary. I think regardless of training room clearing is the far more dangerous option of the two. Also, in NJ from a legal perspective the first obligation is to attempt escape. I'm on the second floor so I have a good argument as to why I had to go downstairs and fire my weapon to leave the house. However, all it takes is an over zealous prosecutor to cause problems. Regardless of the end result you could end up with a large legal bill.

 

I'm sure even those trained to clear rooms would rather not given the choice!

 

Scratch all that, just remembered I typically leave my phone downstairs so it looks like I'm shooting my way out of the house!

Well, I had a little unplanned drill about 3AM last night. Woke up from a dead sleep to what sounded like a screen being removed, or at least banged around "Inside" the next room. I rolled out of bed, and grabbed my handgun (an arms length away) and flashlight, and kind of knelt on one knee behind the bed and felt I was ready for an intruder. I listened and watched the doorway. Flashlight stayed off (moon light gave me enough to see the doorway for this stage).

 

Yes, the screen was being kind of dragged around. The cat got her claws stuck in it and could not remove herself without assistance. Screen was not installed at the time. It was a good feeling to experience getting into the "mode" quickly out of a deep sleep.

I live in a small apt by myself but I would still choose option #2 and pray for someone stupid enough to come thru the door. Later when I own a house and have a family, I would only start clearing rooms if I was trying to reach someone on a different floor or other side of the house.

Well, I had a little unplanned drill about 3AM last night. Woke up from a dead sleep to what sounded like a screen being removed, or at least banged around "Inside" the next room. I rolled out of bed, and grabbed my handgun (an arms length away) and flashlight, and kind of knelt on one knee behind the bed and felt I was ready for an intruder. I listened and watched the doorway. Flashlight stayed off (moon light gave me enough to see the doorway for this stage).

 

Yes, the screen was being kind of dragged around. The cat got her claws stuck in it and could not remove herself without assistance. Screen was not installed at the time. It was a good feeling to experience getting into the "mode" quickly out of a deep sleep.

 

This is the other consideration, false alarms.

 

Where do you draw the line to barricade and call 911? When you hear a crash and the dog starts barking and growling uncontrollably?

 

I used to routinely hear stuff in my house that made me think somebody had broken in or was in the process. But, nothing followed for several minutes. Am I going to call 911 every time? Probably not a good idea. Am I going to stay awake all night and lie in wait? Great idea, but not very practical. Am I going to go back to sleep? Risk is small at this point, but could turn out to be a very bad idea. So, I clear the house and make sure it's secure.

 

So, finally I just wired up my house, my yard, and my property lines with various systems.

I'm surrounded by the Dunning-Kruger all day long at work!

 

From a video game perspective it might seem like a bad-a** idea to make any punk who dares to break into my house pay the price. However, from a perspective of logic I know that the more I move the higher the chance I'm injured in some manner. I don't want to be killed by my gun or anyone else's in my own home. I will barricade myself upstairs and only fire if necessary. I think regardless of training room clearing is the far more dangerous option of the two. Also, in NJ from a legal perspective the first obligation is to attempt escape. I'm on the second floor so I have a good argument as to why I had to go downstairs and fire my weapon to leave the house. However, all it takes is an over zealous prosecutor to cause problems. Regardless of the end result you could end up with a large legal bill.

 

I'm sure even those trained to clear rooms would rather not given the choice!

 

Scratch all that, just remembered I typically leave my phone downstairs so it looks like I'm shooting my way out of the house!

 

Nope, you do not have an obligation to retreat in your home. There is a difference between self defense, and searching around your house, finding someone not supposed to be there and shooting them. You have to feel your life and others are in danger of the intruder inflicting "unlawful force". If you find the guy passed out drunk on your kitchen floor, or scared in a corner because they see you with your gun, or being fully compliant with your demands to leave/disarm/freeze, etc... there is no perceived danger and you cannot use deadly force for obvious reasons. I suggest everyone read 2C:3-4. Print it and hang it on the fridge.

 

2C:3-4. Use of Force in Self-Protection. a. Use of force justifiable for protection of the person. Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 2C:3-9, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.

 

b.Limitations on justifying necessity for use of force.

 

(1)The use of force is not justifiable under this section:

 

(a)To resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer in the performance of his duties, although the arrest is unlawful, unless the peace officer employs unlawful force to effect such arrest; or

 

(B)To resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:

 

(i)The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest;

 

(ii)The actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recaption justified by section 2C:3-6; or

 

(iii) The actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm.

 

(2)The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm; nor is it justifiable if:

 

(a)The actor, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or

 

(B)The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

(i)The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor; and

 

(ii)A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.

 

(3)Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

 

c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

 

(2)A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and:

 

(a)The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or

 

(B)The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so.

 

(3)An actor employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing or doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

 

L.1978, c.95; amended 1987, c.120, s.1; 1999, c.73.<a name="{1694}">

Well, I had a little unplanned drill about 3AM last night. Woke up from a dead sleep to what sounded like a screen being removed, or at least banged around "Inside" the next room. I rolled out of bed, and grabbed my handgun (an arms length away) and flashlight, and kind of knelt on one knee behind the bed and felt I was ready for an intruder. I listened and watched the doorway. Flashlight stayed off (moon light gave me enough to see the doorway for this stage).

 

Yes, the screen was being kind of dragged around. The cat got her claws stuck in it and could not remove herself without assistance. Screen was not installed at the time. It was a good feeling to experience getting into the "mode" quickly out of a deep sleep.

 

 

This was not a false alarm. I would have shot my cat if it did that. I hate that thing and I am just looking for any excuse!

This was not a false alarm. I would have shot my cat if it did that. I hate that thing and I am just looking for any excuse!

Cat burglar? Lol

Great discussion! Lots of interesting, well-considered thoughts here. Coincidentally, I was seriously considering taking a course on tactics for home defense. Gun for Hire has one that looks pretty good. Is anyone familiar with it? It looks like it's pretty comprehensive, but if it's just going to be about clearing rooms, I might be less interested after reading this discussion.

I think taking HD classes along with other defensive classes is a great idea. If you have the money to take the class, I would say go for it. I'm sure you will learn a lot and although you might prefer option #2, learning room clearing skills doesn't hurt!

Misinformation. In your own home in NJ, you do not have a duty to retreat.

 

Actually according to the law, you do. The law is dumb as s*@t, but that's what it says.

You do not have to leave your house to avoid conflict, but if you can be safe by locking yourself in a room, thats what NJ says you have to do.

 

2C:3-4. Use of force in self-protection.

 

B The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

 

(i) The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor; and

 

That being said, if you know there is an intruder in your house, and you go looking for them from a place of safety with the capacity to call for help, that can get messy from a legal perspective. If not from criminal law, certainly from civil law perspectives. All IMO of course.

 

I agree, it would be very hard to prove (again in NJ presumed guilty until proven innocent) that you could have avoided using deadly force when you went looking for the BG.

Get a dog. Or three

IMO, anybody who would actually think clearing their domicile would be a good idea needs to have a dose of reality.

Engaging-a-threat 101, from what I remember, is to always have the upper advantage (there's no such thing as "cheating" when it comes to protecting lives). No matter how well we think we know the layouts of our domiciles, being in a static pos with a good view and decent cover is more of a sure bet. And as Tactical Monkey, I believe, pointed out, material goods are replaceable, but our lives and our loved ones are not... so, no sense in risking that over the proverbial 'toaster'.

 

While the topic of discussion is what we think is best IF an incident occurred, maybe another thing to consider is how to avoid being a target. Albeit there are property crimes that occur simply because opportunity at that moment presents itself. But on the other hand, not all crime is random, nor is all the blame of why the crime occurs placed on the BG (though of course it ultimately should be as it is their conscious decision to do so).

The above meaning that instead of placing the huge box for the 52'' LED TV we just bought on the end of the drive way, or leaving the garage door open for everybody to see (among other examples), we can take a more active role of "hardening" ourselves.

I don't think there is any right response of how this is done as we certainly have the right and reason to live the way we want to live our lives (with no real "wrong" answers). Just something that we should probably consider to some extent.

I can't believe I'm getting bashed for a joke. But whatever.

 

Easy answer to this question. I hear a noise, go get the pump gun while the misses gets the baby and calls the police. And if the perp comes upstairs, "say hello to my little friend"!

We bought our first house and had our first son about a month apart. It was a 3br cape in a town not far from where we both grew up. Master br upstairs in a converted attic, 2 brs downstairs. Shortly after getting him to sleep in his crib we woke up to glass breaking and heard noises through the baby monitor that sounded like the hiss a person makes when they've hurt themselves and are trying not to curse. It was a scary moment opening the door from upstairs, but what else could I do? Went through the door holding a maglite by the lens end ready to use like a billy club and saw the cat looking out the front window hissing at a couple of deer in the front yard and a broken vase on the floor.

 

Looking back, if we take my son out of the equation, it was a boneheaded thing to do. Going against me, still waiting on my paperwork right now, certainly didn't have it then, not 100% familiar with the house, lake of appropriate training and weapon, and adrenaline. In my favor, familiar with the town, not much crime to speak of, and adrenaline (its both good and bad). I don't like the way the bads outweigh the goods.

 

In that case, I had no choice. Now that we're in a different house with all of the bedrooms on one floor, I will choose option 2 if and when our applications ever comes back from Trenton. The only caveat to that is a quick trip down the hall to collect the boys from their rooms and then right back. Then I would probably put my wife and boys in master bathroom with her gun, lock the door, me in the master bedroom with my gun, door to hall locked. I like the suggestion of a solid core door from above.

 

John