I think that any gun owner who exercises their right solely to create a confrontation (and claim your 15 seconds of Internet fame) isn't doing the community any favors. It just reinforces the impression of gun owners as belligerent, adversarial morons who are just itching for a fight.

 

yup that is the exact same thing I was saying... I totally agree...

 

asserting your rights is ALWAYS a positive thing... but going out and seeking confrontation just so you can be "right" is silly IMO and in some cases maybe even dangerous..

Rosa parks might have been more articulate and part of a group, but neither of those are requirements to being able to exercise one's rights

 

The big difference is what Rosa Parks did was not just about a seat on a bus but a much bigger thing. It seems to me that OC a gun and getting into the biggest confrontation possible is some people's entire focus in life. Its not about OC its about getting the most outrageous confronation. On video or audio even better.

When we talk about rights, we need to get out of the habit of discussing them in context of whether we approve of the particular activity. The entire concept of a RIGHT is that it belongs to the individual regardless of popularity and without needing permission or approval.

 

It doesn't matter if you or I think OC is a good idea or not. It is this person's legal right in the location where this incident happened, and the local police clearly have a policy of harassing people who exercise this right in violation of the law. It also doesn't matter if the guy is an antagonistic douchebag or Mahatma Gandhi reincarnated, he has every right to make a stand in defense of his rights.

It also doesn't matter if the guy is an antagonistic douchebag or Mahatma Gandhi reincarnated, he has every right to make a stand in defense of his rights.

 

True but which one is doing more to further the cause.

 

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/130959-my-first-police-run-oc-season-dennys.html

 

This is a link to a different OC encounter.

 

In summary, 2 OC guys were in a Denny's, some called the cops, and they responded. The cop had a brief polite conversation (which they didn't have to have) with the OC guys who produced their ID even though the cop didn't ask for it and they are not required to. Cop says have a nice day and leaves everyone within sight or earshot of the encounter aware that OC is okay.

 

The encounter in the OP was way overboard on both sides.

This is a good point. In OC without a license states, how does LE know if a person OCing is not a prohibited person without stopping and checking them out. Then besides the standard "name and address" response to identify yourself as they cannot demand any other form of ID (DL for instance if they are not operating a motor vehicle on public roads). How does LE know if its a gang-banger with a 12 felonies going back for 10 years, or a law-abiding citizen without some form of ID check? Slippery slope.

 

Since there should be no firearms laws, this should really not be an issue. Also, a cop cannot even "stop" or "check them out" or "name and address" in PA just because they see somebody carrying a gun. This is also true in the majority of America. I don't mean any disrespect, but I think all the regulation in NJ has clouded your thinking a bit. Most places aren't even as restrictive as your dream regulations, and they are not falling off a cliff into anarchy.

 

Vlad, I like your counterpoint on license to drive a car.

 

Here's what I believe:

 

a) If the cop has reasonable suspicion that you are breaking the law, they can temporarily detain and question you. They are permitted to frisk you for weapons according to the Terry Stop rules. They may also separate you from your weapon legal or not. If they have reasonable suspicion that you were or are involved in committing a violent crime, they may use force including aiming their gun at you during the detention. You are also typically obligated (according to State) to at a minimum identify yourself.

 

b) For the cop to do anything further, such as searching you beyond rules outlined in the Terry Stop, they would need to have probable cause that you are breaking the law, this means they have grounds for an arrest. This would give them grounds to do things like check your DL, and any other documents on you, along with running gun serial numbers, etc.

 

Terry stop is not legal in PA or the majority of America for seeing somebody carrying a gun. Unfortunately, courts have often ruled that the rest of what you said is legal during a traffic stop.

 

I think that any gun owner who exercises their right solely to create a confrontation (and claim your 15 seconds of Internet fame) isn't doing the community any favors.

 

Do you have an example of somebody open carrying solely to create a confrontation? And please don't accuse ME of that, LOL Because that would mean I'm not doing a good job.

Do you have an example of somebody open carrying solely to create a confrontation?

 

I'd say this guy did:

 

3. I read an account of a guy in TN or KY (not sure) who OC an AK pistol he had painted orange like a toy gun. This is a guy really looking for trobule AFAIC. He wondered (?) why the police stopped him.

 

I saw this on the PAFOA forum and I'll post a link if I can find it.