I found about 10 boxes of my first reloads. now that i have a caliper i can check these things

 

Theyre 115 gr. 9mm FMJ

 

Whatever the lee book says for powder charge....(I think it was 5 gr of bullseye )

 

1.087 OAL ****

 

---------

 

My usa ammo reloads are @ 1.117 OAL

 

I know its not much but i wonder what i am winning or loosing with that difference. Or if i can even shoot them.

 

 

A little help

The Alliant site shows a minimum OAL of 1.125" and a max charge of 4.7g. Being under the minimum OAL can cause dramatic increases in pressure. Therefore, I recommend you do not shoot these rounds, especially as you are also above the max load.

 

Lesson learned:

1.) Calipers and a scale are must have items before you start reloading.

2.) Always record the loading data on all ammo you load. When it comes to

reloading "I think" is no way to start an answer.

3) Never exceed max loads

4) Never go below minimum OAL

 

This may be an expensive lesson or a long time pulling bullets but it beats blowing up your gun. It is not my intention to beat you up but I don't want to see you hurt yourself. There is a reloading clinic at Shongum Range in Mansfield. You will learn a lot if you go. It is on the range and the NJgunforum.com calendars.

 

Be Safe,

 

The Col.

I just double checked. 4.5 gr of bullseye my dispensers set at.

 

But I'll try to get dad over there with ms for the class. I'll look into it

The USA ammo reloads are mass produced reloads... Does that mean they're no good? With an oal at 1.117?

I know its not much but i wonder what i am winning or loosing with that difference. Or if i can even shoot them.

 

How did you arrive at the 1.087 OAL was that using an already loaded 115 gr FMJ as a gauge.

 

There will be variations of OAL with bullets of the same weigh and style from different manufacturers. A bullet with long tapered nose may have a longer OAL than one with a rounded or flat nose. Generally the clsoer the bullet is to the rifling the more accurate it will be. Do the bullets you used look a bit different than the USA bullets?

 

Check the charge weight in the book. I don't know where mu Lee manual is but Lyman 49 lists 4.8 grs of Bullseye with a 115 jhp as a max charge with a OAL of 1.090. .5 grain charge weight between two manuals is not much of a difference but we're talking at or near maximum. My only concern is what does Lee list as a maximum charge?

 

I usually only load about 20 rds when I try out a new load so if it turns out to be a mistake I don't have 500 bullets to pull.

 

The 9x19 is a high pressure round and if the bullet is seated too deep pressures can rise fast. I really don't want to give you a "seems okay" until you give me answers to my questions above.

I know its not much but i wonder what i am winning or loosing with that difference. Or if i can even shoot them.

 

How did you arrive at the 1.087 OAL was that using an already loaded 115 gr FMJ as a gauge.

 

There will be variations of OAL with bullets of the same weigh and style from different manufacturers. A bullet with long tapered nose may have a longer OAL than one with a rounded or flat nose. Generally the clsoer the bullet is to the rifling the more accurate it will be. Do the bullets you used look a bit different than the USA bullets?

 

Check the charge weight in the book. I don't know where mu Lee manual is but Lyman 49 lists 4.8 grs of Bullseye with a 115 jhp as a max charge. .5 grain charge weight between two manuals is not much of a difference but we're talking at or near maximum. My only concern is what does Lee list as a maximum charge?

 

I usually only load about 20 rds when I try out a new load so if it turns out to be a mistake I don't have 500 bullets to pull.

 

The 9x19 is a high pressure round and if the bullet is seated too deep pressures can rise fast. I really don't want to give you a "seems okay" until you give me answers to my questions above.

 

 

Before I had the electronic caliper I just had the basic one. I guess it wasn't to accurate. I based them off if Remington umc.

 

I'm hooked on the suspicion that the USA stuff is bad. White box shoots more accurate and less snappy then it. If so I'll shoot them an email and send it back

I found about 10 boxes of my first reloads. now that i have a caliper i can check these things

 

Okay how did these shoot? Any flattened primers or excessive recoil (either is not really the best way to judge) compared to a factory load? How many of these loads did you fire? Did Lee give an OAL for this load?

 

I based them off if Remington umc.

 

Was it a Remington 115 FMJ? Were the bullets you loaded Remington 115 FMJs?

 

I'm hooked on the suspicion that the USA stuff is bad.

 

Maybe, maybe not. While seating a bullet closer to the rifling generally makes it more accurate it can also raise pressures if its too close. If you get 4 loaded 115grs FMJs from different manufacturers you will come up with 4 different OAL due to bullet design as I stated in my previous post.

they should be fine i have shot a couple boxes loaded at that length like 1.090 and i have about 5.1 gr and it shot fine

and depending on the manufacturer of the bullet some are shorter and longer like by alot some are anywhere from .01 off to .04 off

I found about 10 boxes of my first reloads. now that i have a caliper i can check these things

 

Okay how did these shoot? Any flattened primers or excessive recoil (either is not really the best way to judge) compared to a factory load? How many of these loads did you fire? Did Lee give an OAL for this load?

 

I based them off if Remington umc.

 

Was it a Remington 115 FMJ? Were the bullets you loaded Remington 115 FMJs?

 

I'm hooked on the suspicion that the USA stuff is bad.

 

Maybe, maybe not. While seating a bullet closer to the rifling generally makes it more accurate it can also raise pressures if its too close. If you get 4 loaded 115grs FMJs from different manufacturers you will come up with 4 different OAL due to bullet design as I stated in my previous post.

 

They shot hotter than Remington umc. Accurate though. I will admit i have the cheap lee quick powder dispenser(The junky plastic turret ) So before i do my next batch im going to get a nice hornady lock n load electronic one

This thread is making my eyes hurt. You intentionally loaded ammo not knowing what you were doing? Knowingly used what you suspect is shoddy equipment or at least out of spec? And you are trying to compare different manufactureres to your reloads for AOL but you do not know what powder is in the other rounds.

 

STOP reloading and seek out some assistance. Stop throwing money away on more equipment until you know what it is you want to do. You may not be worried if your gun blows up but the person next to you may. Buy more than 1 manual and read it. Each manual has a variance in load data. What may be max in 1 manual is fine in another. Different guns, components, temps, etc cause different results. Buy Lyman #49 and read it thoroughly.

I am glad you have your pic in your profile. This way, when I see you at the range, I can steer clear.

 

Tim hit the nail on the head.

I shoot USA ammo at the range. Relax

 

Im just asking if this stuff is salvageable of not

I shoot USA ammo at the range. Relax

 

Im just asking if this stuff is salvageable of not

 

At the absolute minimum pull the bullet from one and measure the charge. Do not rely on what was set on the powder measure.

i usually load to 1.120, 4.5 w231 with 124.

 

Buy a bullet puller, assuming you dont have one already. Pull the rounds, and reload them.

also keep in mind due to the profile of the bullet, one manufacturers 115FMJ may seat to 1.120 with your dies setting, but if you put in another 115FMJ, it may seat to a different depth. Be aware!

also keep in mind due to the profile of the bullet, one manufacturers 115FMJ may seat to 1.120 with your dies setting, but if you put in another 115FMJ, it may seat to a different depth. Be aware!

 

+1 to what Glen said. This is very important. Some bullets are longer than others and seat differently than a shorter bullet. The case volume under the bullet will change with longer or shorter bullets of the same weight when seated to the same OAL. This effects the pressure build up in the cartridge.

I will admit i have the cheap lee quick powder dispenser(The junky plastic turret )

 

You're talking about the Auto Disk? You can load good ammo with that but you have to know what it actually is throwing. You need to pull a bullet (better to pull 5 and average the weight) and see what the charge actually is as Lee fixed measures (scoops or Auto Disk) usually throw a bit less than Lee says they do. If the Lee chart said 4.5 grs don't be surprised if the charge is actually 4.1 or so.

 

The case volume under the bullet will change with longer or shorter bullets of the same weight when seated to the same OAL. This effects the pressure build up in the cartridge.

 

This is true. You have to remember in the olden days many manuals would not give you an OAL. They would only give you a maximum OAL. You needed to work your own OAL. If you failed to consider the above underlined quote you could get yourself in trobule very fast.

Double checked the loads last night. Theyre all @ 4.5 lee's min & max in the book i bought said 4.5 gr of bullseye. All is well. My father reloaded for 20 years, he double checked everything with me.

 

>>>> So everyone knows, I would never do anything unsafe. especially with guns. I have been hunting since i was 13. I couldnt believe someone would say> Good thing i saw your picture so i can stay away from you.

 

My new reloads are all by the book. But the as the fact remains, i only shoot usa ammo. its cheaper for me then to reload without bulk.

 

Sorry if my question was too ridiculous. Thats why im here. To learn

Before I had the electronic caliper I just had the basic one. I guess it wasn't to accurate..

 

Caliper are ok for this application but if your not used to using one or you have not used one often just like shooting, you need to practice. Many people who use them can measure something 3 different times and get 3 different reading. Calipers are not really that accurate but best for this application. Same stands true for micrometers, need to practice. There is a feel that you need to learn to get the most precise measurement.

 

A good way to practice is to get a bunch of different drills and measure them and see how you do, get the feel for it and see how long it takes to keep getting the same measurement.

 

Harry

The USA ammo reloads are mass produced reloads... Does that mean they're no good? With an oal at 1.117?

 

I would trust that USA ammo has tested these rounds with whatever powder they used and the OAL to determine they are within SAAMI specs. So yes, the USA ammo is safe.

Just an update:

 

I stopped everything i was doing so i could take a step back and read more into this. I spent the last 5 days reading the Lee "Modern Reloading 2nd Edition" Reloading Manual that i picked up. Though i was in the same ball park, the point of reloading is "Perfection & Cost" otherwise you would just buy factory.

 

I bought the kinetic bullet puller and dis-assembled all of my reloads. Read the book, Researched many recipes for specific gun models (G34 & 1911) And it makes much more sense. But in my opinion, There is much more you can learn from experts like you guys. And i just want to thank you for the help you have already given.

 

I have spent the entire few night's researching about "Crimp".Whether it be with the lee factory crimp or the seating & crimp die, Everything makes sense except the adjusting and setting of this. In my studies there are guys who when using the 4 piece die set, skip the crimp during seating and JUST use the factory crimp die. It seems like these guys on youtube "Just know". They dont say how or why. Even in publications, It is not very clear how to measure or implement this crimp. Basically i would like to find a class around here or maybe find a good video. The more i know the better

For 9mm you may not even have to crimp at all. Either that or a very light crimp. Crimp too much and the pressure will build like a MFer.

Joe - I have always crimped separately from seating. I like to group operations together since I'm using a single stage press. I seat all the bullets in the group I'm loading and pay attention to seating depth. Once I'm done seating, I use a Lee factory crimp die. The Lee factory crimp die does a cartridge length final sizing and crimps at the case mouth. The final sizing ensures that there are no bulges in the case and that the round will chamber correctly. I'm very happy with the Lee 4 die sets that include the factory crimp die. Hope this helps.

For 9mm you may not even have to crimp at all.

 

You have to take the bell out of the case mouth for the round to chamber.

 

I crimp in the seating die and with a crimping die. Its a bit neater with a crimping die. If you crimp too much you can also screw up headspace.

 

One thing that really hasn't been talked about much is OAL. When they give OAL in a reloading manual that is the OAL they used to get the results they did but its not set in stone. I mentioned in a previous post:

 

You have to remember in the olden days many manuals would not give you an OAL. They would only give you a maximum OAL. You needed to work your own OAL.

 

The OAL you use can vary a bit and still be correct. If you make it too long you can increase pressures as the bullet will engage the rifling sooner and offer more resistance sooner raising pressures. However in rifle rounds a shorter OAL can also decrease pressures as the bullet starts moving through the freebore area of the chamber sooner.

I'd be more than happy to help you Joe. Come over when you get a chance, we can go over some stuff. We live close enough.

As said before, the crimp just removes the bell. If you use jacketed bullets, you will not need the Lee Factory Crimp die. To adjust the crimp die, put a round with a seated bullet in the crimping station. Move the ram up and screw the die down until it touches the round. Move the ram down and screw the die down 1/8 turn. Move the ram all the way up. Repeat the process until the bell is gone. If you mic the diameter you should be between 0.376" and 0378". The SAAMI max is 0.380". If the diameter is too wide, the round won't chamber. If you crimp too much, you will re-size the bullet and it will loosen and you will get set back which is bad. I know it is counter intuitive that a tighter crimp will cause a loose bullet but when you crimp too much, the bullet is squeezed smaller and stays small. The case gets smaller but has memory and flexes out.