I can bring a 45-70, 338 Lagua Magnum, 300 Winchester Magnum, and 416 Lott

338 Lagua Magnum

For reals??

Anthony, one thing you need to remember as well that it isnt ALL about penetration, a HUGE part of the equation is the Distribution of force from the impact point. Even if you stop the projectile 100% from openetrating, if there is still a point source of impact trauma it can be almost as damaging to the underlying tissues.

 

 

Anthony another thing to consider which I'm sure you have is thickness and weight. I'm sure you considered this. Also I can bring some pistols and rifles if needed. one that wasn't mentioned 7mm rem magnum.

 

I agree Kpd and I think I mentioned it a small bit in a earlier post that quite a few deaths with body armor is just the force crushing the lungs and heart not the bullet going through. I am going to have to work on the carrying system that will hold the core, but I want to make sure the core holds up before working on the displacement system.

 

Chris I have been trying to keep that in mind in my construction I actually was just weighing materials and quantities to get some ball park ideas on the weight before I came on here. I know of a guy made armor that was strictly made from cotton cloth same as a undershirt and it was infused with resin and then compressed. It held up quite well to quite a few different rounds but it was 4 inches thick and weighed I believe 20 lbs haha. Stopping the bullets in one thing, getting it where people wanna wear it is the other half of the battle.

Just a bit of a update:

 

I got all the materials in beginning of week and I decided to construct a sample section for testing, I got a two day break in my schedule so I spent last two days and nights building each segment and everything just grinding it out and everything is complete now. I am waiting for everything to finish curing then just need to trim the segments to the right sizes then fuse the segments and put on the outer coating and then its ready for someone to shoot it. Test area on the piece is only 5x7 so I think it could only be shot once or twice. My question is what would be the best round to try to get best test out of this small piece, I was thinking either .357mag or .44mag. Kinda go all or nothing in handgun protection, if it stops those then I know its worth it to go forward with the full size armor and test rifle rounds. Let me know what you guys think.

 

Ant

Just a suggestion, you should look at what rifle rounds NIJ tests with instead of going all over the place with different calibers. Typically, I've seen vests rated for 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, 30 Carbine, 7.62 x 39, and 30-06. Its nice if your vest stops 416 Rigby but most don't know what 416 Rigby is.

 

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but you'll need to use ammo from the same lots and chronograph it, best if you chrono while you are testing.

Just a suggestion, you should look at what rifle rounds NIJ tests with instead of going all over the place with different calibers. Typically, I've seen vests rated for 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, 30 Carbine, 7.62 x 39, and 30-06. Its nice if your vest stops 416 Rigby but most don't know what 416 Rigby is.

 

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but you'll need to use ammo from the same lots and chronograph it, best if you chrono while you are testing.

 

I am doing more a test of concept in this test because making the big vest is going to be pretty expensive and I need some proof that it will even work at a II to III level if it doesn't work at that level I need to either redesign or throw the project away. If the armor works at that level I will be looking to make a full vest and be testing to better classify what level it sits at and doing the velocities and distances.

Chronograph for sure. Not sure if 44 magnum is the ideal cartridge to use, 357/45acp/40/9mm would be my choices.

Chronograph for sure. Not sure if 44 magnum is the ideal cartridge to use, 357/45acp/40/9mm would be my choices.

Since this armor test piece is going to be kinda small it will only be able to take a round or two in the one spot before losing its structural strength. If I use a more powerful round like 44 or 357 and it can handle that then it can handle the 45 40 and 9 correct? If you have a better round to use to eliminate the other popular rounds im all ears.I just need the proof that its financially worth it to go forth with the full size armor and run it through the real tests.

Oh okay, I understand. 44 magnum for pistols, 308 for rifles?

Even if I stopped a 9 and a 40 but not a 45 the size and weight of the armor wouldn't be worth carrying for the level of protection. By stopping a 44mag I could safely say it would stop most popular handgun rounds and I could focus on rifle rounds. That would make this armor more practical and the added weight worth it, That's my thought right now.

I completely get what you're saying. So it sounds like this is going to be pretty bulky. Can I ask how thick this test piece is?

I completely get what you're saying. So it sounds like this is going to be pretty bulky. Can I ask how thick this test piece is?

 

Right now its just under 2 inches but I can bring that down a lot, I did each part separate just to make sure it came out right. If it works I can change the forming process.

Don't wanna try .50AE?

2 inches

 

So I guess me getting my hands on a concealable vest is out of the question lol. How much do you think you can bring the thickness down to?

 

The other question is....do you think you will just be producing vests, or other pieces as well?

Don't wanna try .50AE?

 

Nick your crazy haha, if the full vest wasn't going to cost me pretty penny to produce I would do it for the fun of it. Maybe after testing the vest someone can end its life with one.

 

2 inches

 

So I guess me getting my hands on a concealable vest is out of the question lol. How much do you think you can bring the thickness down to?

 

The other question is....do you think you will just be producing vests, or other pieces as well?

 

If the concept works and I get the right machinery and do some refining I could get it to an inch, but the core isn't flexible its a hard armor so even concealed I don't know if it will be comfortable haha.

 

To your second question, I have plans for what I call tactical crush resistant gloves, goal is I could run your hand over with a truck and you wont feel a thing yet still be able to shoot a gun. It would be for cops when they are frisking people or apprehending so the person cant bite their hand or bite a finger off.

Going to be hard to keep it flexible enough.

Anthony not trying to put you down here but if its not conceilble armor where are you focusing on selling this? my understanding is its not flexible so it wouldn't be useful to LE. And I think they have hard armor that protects most rifle cartridges. Again don't mean to put you down gere just trying to understand your intentions.

Big plans bro, hope this works out. What's next?

Anthony not trying to put you down here but if its not conceilble armor where are you focusing on selling this? my understanding is its not flexible so it wouldn't be useful to LE. And I think they have hard armor that protects most rifle cartridges. Again don't mean to put you down gere just trying to understand your intentions.

 

Its probably more of a tactical team/military use as my plans are set now,maybe with time and some testing and if it works I have a way to make it flexible enough for someone to wear daily. Time and testing will tell, in general this will be lighter then whats issued in military.Most plates to reach certain cert levels require installment of trauma plates in addition to hard plates, my system has one plate and that is it.

Big plans bro, hope this works out. What's next?

 

Finish putting together the segments and then having someone shoot it.

Big plans bro, hope this works out. What's next?

 

Yea, like, when do we get a chance to shoot it??

 

Harry

Is there a list of who and what we can shoot?

Anyone that wants to come out and see the testing can I may have to have you sign a paper just a non disclosure type so as to keep what I am doing quiet. All I want is someone to shoot either .357 or .44mag at this with one to two shots center mass and I want to inspect what happened once I am satisfied and document what happened. I think you guys can shoot it to pieces with whatever you want and then after its obliterated I have to collect all those pieces for obvious reasons since its a prototype. Does anyone here have a .357 or .44 mag?

357, covered bro. When and where?

Is it cool if I join you guys just for fun?

 

Edit: Sorry, I didn't read through your full post. I'm in for just hanging out, and have no problem signing a disclosure form.

Ok so rayray will do the initial test with 357, time frame I am thinking like 2 weeks + depending on where I get permission to test this. After the armor piece is shot and I check it for penetration and such and take pics of the damage. Then you guys can shoot it with whatever you want, a course vjf you can come and shoot at it after the test and anyone else interested can as well. I don't have any date set in mind but, Ill have to coordinate it to rayray since hes shooting and vjf since you have shown alot of interest in whats going on as well.

I'm showing a lot of interest because I think that the initiative and creativity you are showing is great. I'm thinking that the whole "shoot it to death after I take pictures" might not be the best idea. You will probably want to take it home so you can take down more data about it. You can shoot the crap out of some others

Just gimme a date and time and I'll see what I can do. I have a 45acp, 9mm (rifle too) and 12g slugs and buck if you want to go that route.

UPDATE:

I have been kinda busy with life stuff and finally finished the test sample completely. I didn't wanna leave anyone hanging that has shown support in what I was coming up with or let anyone think that I wasn't going to produce on my idea. So where I stand right now is I have been in touch with someone that has a range to test this at and firearm I need to do this first test. The test is going to take place in mid June, sadly it has to be done semi quietly and will have to be me and just this person that's helping me because quite a few ranges have been reluctant to let me test this on their range for whatever their reasons may be, I understand and appreciate where they are coming from though. Here is a few pictures of it finished without its outer cover(its upside down) and then with its cover and then the marked out testing area. I am only showing this because a lot of people were very interested in whats going on and I figured its only fair to share my journey since people are sharing their time in what I am doing. The secrets in this "plate" are not really visible from the images but it gives you an idea of its shape. The actual test section is 7x5 rectangle from dead center. Thanks for everyone's time.

 

quite a few ranges have been reluctant to let me test this on their range for whatever their reasons may be, I understand and appreciate where they are coming

 

 

I'm guessing they are probably reluctant due to not knowing the product and what will happen after it's shot. Even paper and cardboard deflect bullets and change there path, and not knowing if this will stop a bullet or allow it to pass through and severely change it's path and damage something.

 

Just for safety and potential of unforeseen damage to the range, you might want to make a multi layered box of some sort that you can place the material in so if it does deflect the box would either contain it, or slow it down so greatly that it wouldn't damage anything. Not just for your safety and who ever is with you, but from causing damage that you may be responsible for.

 

Harry