Kinda new to reloading but loaded 1000 Ranier plated followed by approx 900 lead bullets. What a pain in the a**. The bullet lube gets into all the dies and screws stuff up. Gotta keep stopping to clean both the seating die and the taper crimp die. Thank god for the Hornady Lock and Load bushings that hold your settings on the dies.

 

Kinda just a rant

...What a pain in the a**. The bullet lube gets into all the dies and screws stuff up...

Kinda just a rant

Reminds me of the Sultan, on his way back to his own tent from his harem one evening:

"Damn sand gets in EVERYTHING!"

I reload ranger copper plated stuff love em

Depends on what kind of lube it is or if it was stored in heat. I had a messy box once that came from Arizona and was stored in a shed. Other than that I do not have issues. I generally load 500 - 1000 rounds before I change dies for the next caliber and clean the dies when they come out.

Havent cleaned my .45 dies in 8k rounds or so, and they are lee "crap". I use MO bullets 200 grain SWCs and the buildup is minimal

Once this last 100 is gone I won't be loading and more lead boolits.

ive always loaded lead on cheap lee dies nothing i spend a lot of money on

Maybe I should expand the case mouth a little more? There seems to be a lot of bullet lube everywhere. Maybe it's pushing up from the part of the bullet that is being seated. Is that possible?

idk how long you have been loading lead but i always flare just a tad bit more on lead.. its common practice for me but i use blue angel lube friggin love it

Maybe I should expand the case mouth a little more?

 

That could be teh problem. Don't know what diameter the plated bullets are but most lead (in 45) is .452 and jacketed is .451. I do about 95% of my handgun reloading with lead bullets and don't hace issues.

Havent cleaned my .45 dies in 8k rounds or so, and they are lee "crap". I use MO bullets 200 grain SWCs and the buildup is minimal

 

I have the same exact setup as Glenn's (Lee Turret press, Lee carbide dies, etc) and using the same lead SWC from Missouri bullets and no issues at all. Could it just be the bullets you're using?

Maybe I should expand the case mouth a little more? There seems to be a lot of bullet lube everywhere. Maybe it's pushing up from the part of the bullet that is being seated. Is that possible?

 

Yeah, that definitely sounds like a possibility of what's happening to the bullet lube. Try open the case mouths just a tiny bit more and see how it goes.

With all the inexpensive bulk cases of plated ammo out there, is lead really still a savings? I mean, sure it may be a few bucks less but is the hassle and other factors of loading and shooting lead (lead exposure, cleanup, etc) worth the discount?

With all the inexpensive bulk cases of plated ammo out there, is lead really still a savings? I mean, sure it may be a few bucks less but is the hassle and other factors of loading and shooting lead (lead exposure, cleanup, etc) worth the discount?

 

That's what I was thinking. I get the lead from the local casting guy in lakewood industrial park for sixty something per 1000. I see I can get 1000 Berrys plated for 86 bucks delivered.

I hate the huge cloud of smoke I used to get when reloading with lead, especially the big bores. I felt like I had shot off a Blunderbuss. I stopped reloading lead after I asked my Dr to give me a blood lead test as part of my physical exam. It was way over OSHA limits. I did some research and found it didn't come from handling the lead (as long as you don't lick your hands before washing them, you won't get it in your system). It was due to breathing lead dust. I am going to be making a concerted effort to shoot outside more too. Ventilation at most indoor ranges (CJRPC excepted) is usually pretty poor.

 

Anyway, I load jacketed for speedy calibers (9-10mm, 357mag). For slow moving bullets like 45ACP, I use plated.

With all the inexpensive bulk cases of plated ammo out there, is lead really still a savings? I mean, sure it may be a few bucks less but is the hassle and other factors of loading and shooting lead (lead exposure, cleanup, etc) worth the discount?

 

 

Plated sucks. It is inaccurate and you have to be careful crimping. a lead 200 grain SWC is the ultimate in accuracy and a plated bullet just does not compare. Plus, if you load it right and use good components, you wont get goopy dies and you wont lead your bore. Its like giving up on a ferrari saying its crap because you dont know how to drive stick.

I'll have to agree with what Glenn is saying... I notice a big difference in accuracy between my lead SWC loads and the factory 230gr FMJ rounds I have used. My lead reloads are way more accurate for me.

i dont see accuracy issues when i shoot lead, i shoot 9mm 124 grain pills sittin above 4.0 grains of wsf and i mean its accurate as hell.. wheel weight lead with blue angel lube.. yes and the puff of cloud smoke always embarrasses me at the range

I have not had any accuracy issues with berry's plated bullets..

 

check zero bullets also they tend to be close to berry's prices for jacketed bullets..

As a side note/question. When I shoot the lead I also get the puff of smoke. Is that the bullet lube or the lead?

 

I have chronoed the lead loads and they average about 1025 fps. That's pretty close to the 1000fps that I have heard you are supposed to max out at for lead bullets.

 

For the lead loads I use 3.7 grains of Tightgroup with a 124 grain round nose from TSM Casting in Toms River

As a side note/question. When I shoot the lead I also get the puff of smoke. Is that the bullet lube or the lead?

 

I have chronoed the lead loads and they average about 1025 fps. That's pretty close to the 1000fps that I have heard you are supposed to max out at for lead bullets.

 

For the lead loads I use 3.7 grains of Tightgroup with a 124 grain round nose from TSM Casting in Toms River

 

I used TSM Casting a lot too. I thought they were really soft lead. It was fine for my 45ACP loads though. I imagine a lot of the smoke is the lube, but the tail end of that bullet is getting vaporized by the ignition.You are breathing in lead.

As a side note/question. When I shoot the lead I also get the puff of smoke. Is that the bullet lube or the lead?

 

I have chronoed the lead loads and they average about 1025 fps. That's pretty close to the 1000fps that I have heard you are supposed to max out at for lead bullets.

 

For the lead loads I use 3.7 grains of Tightgroup with a 124 grain round nose from TSM Casting in Toms River

 

99% lube. Shoot an unlubed swaged lead round out of a .38 and there is no more smoke than jacketed.

 

Why are you maxing yourself out at 1k FPS? 1400 FPS is about where you need a gas check, some people go even faster than that with no leading. If you want to exceed 1400 FPS you need a gas check, but with that you can push lead as fast as jacketed. Make sure the hardness of your bullet is appropriate for your velocity, too!

 

From the MO bullets website:

There is a formula for optimal bullet hardness which is simple and it is worth knowing:

 

Optimum BHN = CUP / (1422 x .90)

 

The CUP of your reloads is published in the reloading manuals. Take a typical .45 ACP load, using a 200-grain LSWC bullet – 5.0 grains of Bullseye. This load develops 900 FPS and is in common use among IPSC and IDPA gunners. The reloading manual shows that the pressure generated by this load is 20,000 CUP. So, the formula for optimal bullet hardness is

 

20,000 / 1279.8 = 15.62

 

There it is! For this application – shooting a 200-grain LSWC at 900 FPS requires that you use a bullet with a BHN of 16 to 18 (round upwards a couple of BHN points for flexibility.)

TSM Casting uses very soft lead. I had bad leading when I approached/exceeded 1000fps.Their bullets are perfect for light plinking.

TSM Casting uses very soft lead. I had bad leading when I approached/exceeded 1000fps.Their bullets are perfect for light plinking.

 

 

Oh, OK.

 

The previous statement was "That's pretty close to the 1000fps that I have heard you are supposed to max out at for lead bullets."

 

That would imply that he was under the impression that all lead bullets are not to exceed 1,000 FPS. I was unaware that TSM in particular advised a 1,000 FPS cap

Oh, OK.

 

The previous statement was "That's pretty close to the 1000fps that I have heard you are supposed to max out at for lead bullets."

 

That would imply that he was under the impression that all lead bullets are not to exceed 1,000 FPS. I was unaware that TSM in particular advised a 1,000 FPS cap

 

Gene at TSM never told me that explicitly (although his "hot loads are just a waste of powder" should have been a hint ), but I learned from the sludge in my barrels after loading warm.

Yup, the guy told me to keep it around 1000 fps to keep from leading the barrel.

 

I use them for shooting a steel plate array I have set up and for practicing for USPSA. 1000fps is good for me.

That is the lube burning off

That is the lube burning off

 

Ok, thanks.

 

I'm gonna try to open the casemouth a little more for the remainder of the bullets that I have. I think it's a little tight at the moment because every once in awhile I get a tiny sliver of lead shaved off. (About 1 in 10). I am going to guess if it's that tight then it's also squeezing some of the bullet lube out of the grooves.

 

I just ordered 1000 berrys plated. Maybe after I go thru those I'll try some lead again. For a 20 dollar difference per 1000 it might just be better to go with plated or FMJ (for a little more still) then deal with the leading issues, which also include breathing in lead vapors. Not sure if just handling lead will get it into your system or not.

The previous statement was "That's pretty close to the 1000fps that I have heard you are supposed to max out at for lead bullets."

 

Max velocity with lead bullets is more dependent on pressure than velocity. Higher pressures don't necessarily mean higher velocity. The brinell hardness, type of lube, and sized diameter also come into play. Hard bullets don't always mean less leading. Probably the one thing that prevents leading more than anything else is using a gas check bullet. I knew a guy who loaded 30-06 for a Garand with a 165-170 gr gas checked bullet that was going about 2500 fps (actually chronoed) that had no leading problems. The problem with using gas checked bullets is if you don't make them yourself they cost about the same as jacketed.

 

I run a hard cast 240 SWC in 44 mag up to an actual 1400 fps. It starts to lead after about 50 rds or so but I'll never need to fire that many of these loads at one time.

I was down at TSM today and I asked Gene how hard are the lead bullets and he said 18 Brinnell.