Whats up guys,

 

I've been reading up more and more on NJ gun laws, more specifically, home defense laws. Now, I get the general gist of NJ law, having a weak castle doctrine WITH a duty to retreat, and it seems the "standard" procedure of HD is...

 

1)Shoot the BG.

2)Call your lawyer.

3)Have the lawyer call 911.

4)When 911 arrive say "I shot for fear of my life" and nothing else.

 

etc, etc etc. Now, this is something I read everywhere, be it books, forums, whatever. I was just wondering, for that SHTF day, do you have a lawyer you can call? Both my mother and my wife are actually lawyers, but not this type of law, so I just wanted to know if you have a business card taped to the inside of your bedside safe for when you might NEED a lawyer. Is there a lawyer in NJ thats THE lawyer for HD cases?

 

Penny for your thoughts....

My feeling is that you don't want a dedicated "HD" or "gun" lawyer. You want the best defense attorney you can afford. I have not found an attorney for my family yet, though I really should.

But that's what I mean.....if god forbid (I'm just saying, hypothetically) tonight someone breaks into your home, and you plant 3 in the chest...who would you call? We all TALK about what needs to be done, so I'm curious...it seems we all NEED an HD lawyer on speed dial in case of...well, you know...

I am an attorney, no matter how justified the shooting was, I STFU and call the best criminal attorney I know in Jersey City. I would only tell the cops that I know how crazy NJ laws are and I would prefer a lawyer speak for me so there are no "misunderstanidings"

But that's what I mean.....if god forbid (I'm just saying, hypothetically) tonight someone breaks into your home, and you plant 3 in the chest...who would you call? We all TALK about what needs to be done, so I'm curious...it seems we all NEED an HD lawyer on speed dial in case of...well, you know...

 

 

Start looking now for the best attorney in your area just so your know who it is and your wife can call in the morning.

It's good to have someone to call, or at least instruction for family members and what to do in the even something like this happened. You will get a lot of good info from the folks here but I belong to the USCCA and they have a lot of stories and links to just these type of situations as well as CCW issues being that's the main purpose of the site.

 

You can check them out at: USCCA

 

Harry

But that's what I mean.....if god forbid (I'm just saying, hypothetically) tonight someone breaks into your home, and you plant 3 in the chest...who would you call? We all TALK about what needs to be done, so I'm curious...it seems we all NEED an HD lawyer on speed dial in case of...well, you know...

 

If I needed to, I would contact my civil attorney, and have him get the best criminal defense lawyer he knows to come represent me.

Whats up guys,

 

I've been reading up more and more on NJ gun laws, more specifically, home defense laws. Now, I get the general gist of NJ law, having a weak castle doctrine WITH a duty to retreat, and it seems the "standard" procedure of HD is...

 

1)Shoot the BG.

2)Call your lawyer.

3)Have the lawyer call 911.

4)When 911 arrive say "I shot for fear of my life" and nothing else.

 

etc, etc etc. Now, this is something I read everywhere, be it books, forums, whatever. I was just wondering, for that SHTF day, do you have a lawyer you can call? Both my mother and my wife are actually lawyers, but not this type of law, so I just wanted to know if you have a business card taped to the inside of your bedside safe for when you might NEED a lawyer. Is there a lawyer in NJ thats THE lawyer for HD cases?

 

Penny for your thoughts....

 

 

 

I call troll!

 

If not get your 1-4 order straightened out! Have your lawyer call 911? Really? That shows a sense of urgency...

 

Lawyers in the family?

Whats up guys,

 

I've been reading up more and more on NJ gun laws, more specifically, home defense laws. Now, I get the general gist of NJ law, having a weak castle doctrine WITH a duty to retreat, and it seems the "standard" procedure of HD is...

 

1)Shoot the BG.

2)Call your lawyer.

3)Have the lawyer call 911.

4)When 911 arrive say "I shot for fear of my life" and nothing else.

 

etc, etc etc. Now, this is something I read everywhere, be it books, forums, whatever. I was just wondering, for that SHTF day, do you have a lawyer you can call? Both my mother and my wife are actually lawyers, but not this type of law, so I just wanted to know if you have a business card taped to the inside of your bedside safe for when you might NEED a lawyer. Is there a lawyer in NJ thats THE lawyer for HD cases?

 

Penny for your thoughts....

 

Shoot bad guy, do not hesitate in calling 911.

 

Calling your lawyer first and having them call 911 invokes suspicion. Feel free to choose that route, I wouldn't. Besides, you don't know if the bad guy had a partner or a group of them. Lights and sirens will ensure that no one else gets shot. Also, delaying the call to 911 could result in the death of the perp further compounding your legal problems. One final thought is that the 911 system uses the location of the home phone to send police and rescue so it's always best to call from a home phone in an emergency. A lawyer would be calling from a cell or somewhere else creating confusion.

 

As to keeping your mouth shut, do just that. "I was in fear of my life and I shot this guy. I am too shook up right now to discuss the details, here's my ID". By all means, if you're dizzy, chest constricted, whatever, avail yourself of a trip to the ER. It will serve two functions, one, you may indeed be on the edge of some kind of problem and two, it will let you calm down and collect your thoughts.

Have your lawyer call 911? Really? That shows a sense of urgency...

 

I agree. Call 911, report the incident succinctly (I shot an intruder) and if you don't want to say anymore, hang up. The Police WILL come to you, QUICKLY.

Mark and Dan you are so polite and restrained. Thank You for compensating for my brash nature!

I call troll!

 

If not get your 1-4 order straightened out! Have your lawyer call 911? Really? That shows a sense of urgency...

 

Lawyers in the family?

 

Relax buddy. The "call the lawyer first" is from the book "After you shoot" that is sold on glockstore.com, as well as praised on MANY gun sites.

 

Don't really know what I am trolling. My wife is a commercial litigator and my mother works in general commercial sales for Robinson Silverman. These are not MY 1-4 rules, just something I read, so relax.

 

However, good call on calling me a troll....I think you need to learn a thing or two about online etiquette to actually comprehend what a troll actually is.

Relax buddy. The "call the lawyer first" is from the book "After you shoot" that is sold on glockstore.com, as well as praised on MANY gun sites.

 

Don't really know what I am trolling. My wife is a commercial litigator and my mother works in general commercial sales for Robinson Silverman. These are not MY 1-4 rules, just something I read, so relax.

 

However, good call on calling me a troll....I think you need to learn a thing or two about online etiquette to actually comprehend what a troll actually is.

 

 

I'm going to respond to you when I get a chance. But you need a little "correction".

If it was a real BG I would call 911 faster than Shatner did when his wife was drowning.

1)Shoot the BG.

2)Call your lawyer.

3)Have the lawyer call 911.

4)When 911 arrive say "I shot for fear of my life" and nothing else.

I don't know where you got this order from, but it's terribly wrong. You have a wife, so you tell her to call 911 WHILE you go check out what's going on. If she's not home, or there isn't enough time, you call DIRECTLY after the threat is neutralized. You don't have to give them any details. You can call up and tell them you had an intruder, you protected the safety of yourself and your family, tell them you address, then hang up to call your lawyer.

 

 

1)Shoot the BG.

2)Call your lawyer.

3)Have the lawyer call 911.

4)When 911 arrive say "I shot for fear of my life" and nothing else.

 

 

If possible, be on the phone with a 911 operator when number 1 happens. Your verbal warning to "GET OUT, I HAVE A GUN" being recorded, the fear and urgency in your voice, and being locked in your saferoom when the bad guy came in to get you can all go a long way in a court. As for the order you have listed above... number 2 should be moved to the last place. Yes NJ laws are complicated and often not in favor of legal home defense... but dont give the police, a prosecuting attorney, or a jury in a civil case any reason to suspect there was anything other than self defense involved.

 

And for the record, NJ doenst have a weak castle doctrine... they have NO castle doctrine.

Relax buddy. The "call the lawyer first" is from the book "After you shoot" that is sold on glockstore.com, as well as praised on MANY gun sites.

 

Don't really know what I am trolling. My wife is a commercial litigator and my mother works in general commercial sales for Robinson Silverman. These are not MY 1-4 rules, just something I read, so relax.

 

However, good call on calling me a troll....I think you need to learn a thing or two about online etiquette to actually comprehend what a troll actually is.

 

 

I decided not to verbally beat you up.

 

Listen to these forum members and learn.

 

Honestly, "Prepare for war but, pray for peace"

And for the record, NJ doenst have a weak castle doctrine... they have NO castle doctrine.

 

Thank you for the reminder. I almost forgot about this.

 

And for the record, NJ doenst have a weak castle doctrine... they have NO castle doctrine.

 

A castle doctrine provides criminal immunity for justifiable homicide.

 

NJ statutes indeed provide for this. SEE NJ 2C:3-4.

 

You may not like it, and it is indeed fairly convoluted, but there it is.

A castle doctrine provides criminal immunity for justifiable homicide.

 

NJ statutes indeed provide for this. SEE NJ 2C:3-4.

 

You may not like it, and it is indeed fairly convoluted, but there it is.

Thanks for posting the specific statute. I have read (and had a lawyer read in my presence many times in class) the NJ laws regarding justifiable homicide. I wouldnt consider the above statute a "castle doctrine." The difference (as I understand it) is a true castle doctrine not only allows for legal self defense inside a home (and in some states anyplace legally occupied) but also for protection against civil litigation that may follow. Can someone please clarify?

Thanks for posting. I have read (and had a lawyer read in my presence many times in class) the NJ laws regarding justifiable homicide. I wouldnt consider the above statute a "castle doctrine." The difference (as I understand it) is a true castle doctrine not only allows for legal self defense inside a home (and in some states anyplace legally occupied) but also for protection against civil litigation that may follow. Can someone please clarify?

 

Cameron,

 

That's what I was always lead to believe. That the Perp was unable to sue you for taking his ability to make a living (rob you) away freely. On the same principle as the "Good Sumaritan" rule that means if you crack a rib giving cpr (and you're a lay-person, trained by your local Red Cross), the victim can't sue you. I think that the true Castle Doctrines allow deadly force without retreat. All the Perp has to do is to break-in, and he's as good as toast.....but not here in NJ Comrade!

 

Dave

I wouldnt consider the above statute a "castle doctrine."

 

No duty to retreat + permissable use of deadly force = Castle Doctrine. Your home is your Castle, a criminal intruder can not force you to flee.

 

Stronger protections include immunity from civil prosecution.

Even stronger protection from that are the "Stand your ground" laws that extend to your vehicle and protecting private property.

I think that the true Castle Doctrines allow deadly force without retreat. All the Perp has to do is to break-in, and he's as good as toast.....but not here in NJ Comrade!

 

Dave

 

There is no retreat required within your dwelling. If force is immediately necessary, deadly force justifiable.

 

Read it here: http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/3-4.html

 

(3)Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

 

c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

Mark,

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I still believe, however, you can expect to write a pretty hefty check for your legal defense in NJ regardless of what the statute says (if not a criminal case, definately a civil case). The lawyers and LEO I deal with for classes all agree any self defense incident in NJ will be treated initially as a homicide... and depending on the actions of the home owner and the intentions of the police and prosecuting attorney, may continue to be treated as such. With the convoluted laws in NJ, a PA is more likely to let the courts decide a home owners innocence rather than take that burden upon themselves. That being said, I think we can agree, if it came to it, a responsible citizen can use lethal force to defend themselves or their family... even in NJ... but I think you should expect to and be prepared to defend yourself legally.

No duty to retreat + permissable use of deadly force = Castle Doctrine. Your home is your Castle, a criminal intruder can not force you to flee.

 

Stronger protections include immunity from civil prosecution.

Even stronger protection from that are the "Stand your ground" laws that extend to your vehicle and protecting private property.

This is exactly how i always understood it.

Mark,

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I still believe, however, you can expect to write a pretty hefty check for your legal defense in NJ regardless of what the statute says (if not a criminal case, definately a civil case). The lawyers and LEO I deal with for classes all agree any self defense incident in NJ will be treated initially as a homicide... and depending on the actions of the home owner and the intentions of the police and prosecuting attorney, may continue to be treated as such. With the convoluted laws in NJ, a PA is more likely to let the courts decide a home owners innocence rather than take that burden upon themselves. That being said, I think we can agree, if it came to it, a responsible citizen can use lethal force to defend themselves or their family... even in NJ... but I think you should expect to and be prepared to defend yourself legally.

I don't think a court will prosecute you for justifiably shooting an intruder, and i understand why they would treat it as a homicide, you can't rule anything out until the facts are understood. Unjustifiable.. is a different story... Another reason why u call the cops immediately is to show the urgency of the situation, even if you call and put the phone down to take care of the situation.. Civil suit can happen anywhere any state for any reason... I can sue my neighbor if he doesn't cut his grass...

 

If you call a lawyer before the cops.... yes it looks highly suspicious..why u need to call a lawyer first is beyond me, like said just stfu tell the cops u were defending yourself and felt that your life was in danger and nothing more nothing less until u meet with a lawyer..and meet him at the PD.

Shoot bad guy, do not hesitate in calling 911.

 

Calling your lawyer first and having them call 911 invokes suspicion. Feel free to choose that route, I wouldn't. Besides, you don't know if the bad guy had a partner or a group of them. Lights and sirens will ensure that no one else gets shot. Also, delaying the call to 911 could result in the death of the perp further compounding your legal problems. One final thought is that the 911 system uses the location of the home phone to send police and rescue so it's always best to call from a home phone in an emergency. A lawyer would be calling from a cell or somewhere else creating confusion.

 

As to keeping your mouth shut, do just that. "I was in fear of my life and I shot this guy. I am too shook up right now to discuss the details, here's my ID". By all means, if you're dizzy, chest constricted, whatever, avail yourself of a trip to the ER. It will serve two functions, one, you may indeed be on the edge of some kind of problem and two, it will let you calm down and collect your thoughts.

 

 

Speaking as the guy who will be the first one at your door..Mal has it 100% correct. YOU call 911. Once we get there then say anything along the lines of, "I was in fear of my safety, but I dont want to make any statements without council present. I dont mean to be a PITA but I need to protect my interests, thank you" hand over your ID and Firearms ID card, and if you are even a LITTLE under 100% physically or emotionally, request medical attention. You will get some questions such as name DOB, and biographical stuff, That stuff you DO answer, just not anything pertaining to the shooting without an attorney present.

Speaking as the guy who will be the first one at your door..Mal has it 100% correct. YOU call 911. Once we get there then say anything along the lines of, "I was in fear of my safety, but I dont want to make any statements without council present. I dont mean to be a PITA but I need to protect my interests, thank you" hand over your ID and Firearms ID card, and if you are even a LITTLE under 100% physically or emotionally, request medical attention. You will get some questions such as name DOB, and biographical stuff, That stuff you DO answer, just not anything pertaining to the shooting without an attorney present.

 

 

 

Pipes- Thank You for some VERY sound advice! Coming from you and what you have said make all my frustration with this thread worthwhile.

 

Original Poster- Listen to Pipes.

I decided not to verbally beat you up.

 

Listen to these forum members and learn.

 

Honestly, "Prepare for war but, pray for peace"

 

Don't know why you seem to have a chip on your shoulder, but don't do me any favors.

For those that answered the question, I appreciate the answers. Again, the lawyer calling 911 comment was NOT an idea I came up with. From the research I've done, if someone invades your home, AND you had time to call 911, you have time to either retreat, or possibly not have to shoot. Since you did not IMMEDIATELY fear for your life (by reaching for a phone instead of a gun) then it might be construed as NOT a credible fear (depending how long you stay on the phone.) If you have a reasonable fear for your life, you have one job to do, and one job only, and that is to stop the threat. The lawyer part is due to the fact that you ALREADY shot someone, thus, you calling the cops vs a lawyer calling the cops makes no difference, regardless of how you PERSONALLY feel about it, law is law, and you have every right to call an attorney before 911. Remember, we are NOT talking about BEFORE you shoot the guy. We are talking about a case (most cases) where you SHOOT FIRST and THEN make the phone call. The two phone calls are VERY VERY different.

 

That is the premise of calling your lawyer first. It is not MY idea, it is something that is written in MANY books and articles on the matter, so no need to just down MY throat about it.