Snopes.com article regarding Australia Gun Ban

 

WND article

 

As I said in my original post, stats can be skewed and argued over by both sides. Also there are other changes occurring in society over the last 10+ years that could very well influence the crime rate numbers more/less than gun bans.

 

The reality is we just don't have a real view as to what other factors influence the numbers, and even if we did they would still be argued over

 

TheWombat

A few things to keep in mind when comparing crime in different countries:

 

 

Not only can stats be intentionally skewed, but they can can be skewed by non intentional factors, such as how they define crimes. What we call first degree murder, second degree murder, and manslaughter is broken into 5 catagories in France, so an accurate comparison of one of these sections is not possible.

 

Most other contries have largely homogeneous populations that have been living together for thousands of years (Australia excluded). This tends to reduce violent crime because of social pressures (and increase suicide rates) - think Switzerland and Finland for countries with low violent crime and high rates of gun ownership. Most of Europe has much higher property crime rates than we do here in the USA.

 

My closing thoughts are that the 'right to bear arms' to me implies the 'right to bear arms RESPONSIBLY', the question then is how can a nation successfully define and measure 'Responsibility'.

 

It's not for the government to define and measure this. NJ tried and look at how unclear their definitions are.

 

Responsible gun ownership is much like any other form of responsible ownership in that you do not intentionally trespass on another's rights.

I guess if you look at it from a Sociology standpoint "responsible" would be what society deems acceptable. And I doubt there is a one size fits all answer to that question.

 

 

 

:fugg:

The Wombat

 

Now that your officially a "mall ninja", has anything you've learned about gun ownership changed your previous opinions about them?

I've had confirmation that the 2A and RTKBA is a very emotive topic in the US and I don't see any significant change in the emotions/views in the foreseeable future. The media and politicians will use the tensions/emotions for their own gain.

 

The 'outsider' part of me continues to feel that a modern society should not need to have armed civilians and many countries succeed without armed civilians. The US however has a lot of unresolved history and a significant number of firearms (legal or otherwise) already in circulation which has created the environment we have today. In the short time I have been in the US I have only just begun to gain awareness of the tip of the iceberg that is the underlying background/tensions/history/etc.

 

So long as the 2A allows citizens to be armed, then the option should be available. And so long as the 2A allows me to own firearms then I will continue to own them, albeit my primary purpose was/is as a hobby/sport. I however would not have undertaken the amount of GFH training to date if I was not planning to exercise the right to carry.

 

In summary my personal view is:

• I fully understand how some citizens do not feel comfortable with the fact that other citizens around them are carrying firearms. Blindly arguing with them that it is a 'right' is not going to change their viewpoint.
  
• I see extremes and bad behaviors in both the pro and anti sides
  
• I continue to feel that anyone serious about carrying should undertake appropriate training (e.g. Force on Force Simunitions) so that they can more clearly understanding the responsibilities and implications of their decisions.
  
• While owning firearms may be a right, I believe that with that right comes significant responsibilities and requires a level of maturity.
  
• I would prefer to see less differences in firearms legislation between the different states.
  
• Gun control in itself is not a suitable solution - just look at the gun crime in NJ. However having the entire population carrying arms could also have negative implications - e.g. there are plenty of people that have 'anger management' issues.
  
• Trying to find objective stats that both the pro/anti movements can agree on is unlikely
  
• I personally dislike open carry, if people have firearms around me in public I would prefer they were concealed.
  

 

@RayRay - so when are you trying some Simunitions with a revolver?

 

TheWombat

 

 

The 'outsider' part of me continues to feel that a modern society should not need to have armed civilians and many countries succeed without armed civilians.

@RayRay - so when are you trying some Simunitions with a revolver?

 

TheWombat

 

You need to start considering yourself an "insider". And there was one word you used in that sentence that made me feel better. NEED

It's like car insurance or wearing your seat belt or holding onto the railing when walking down stairs. You don't expect anything to happen but hey, you never know.