I used to live in Pennsylvania up until about 3 years ago (Im now 21). When I was 18, I lived with my mother and her boyfriend. I got into a fight with my mother's boyfriend. We were arguing, he threw a knife at me, so I grabbed his wrist and twisted it, and then he punched me in the face. I called the police after that, and when they came, they cited us both for harassment.

 

Now, in Pennsylvannia, harassment is considered a "summary offense", which is like a traffic ticket. You pay the fine, and then the record goes away. I've done a criminal background check on myself and have confirmed this, it does not show up.

 

My problem, is this: On the firearm application, it asks, "Have you ever been convicted of a domestic violence offense that involves striking, kicking, or shoving, someone else?" This WAS someone who I lived with at the time, and it was a charge, but it does not show up in a background check, because it is considered a citation, and in Pennsylvannia, something is not officially a domestic violence incident unless there is injury.

 

So what should I put on this NJ permit application? Yes or no?

You were cited. you said it's like a traffic ticket.

 

Did you have a trial and were you convicted? Sounds like no. If no, and it does not show up in your background check, then check no.

 

Either way, if you check yes, you're not going to get a purchaser ID and if they find out and consider it a DV, you're not going to get a purchaser ID.

 

I'm not a lawyer, nor is this legal advice. If you're capable, consult a lawyer. If not, roll the dice. If you never got anything more than a fine for it, it's not a conviction as far as I can see.

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/dvpolrsp.htm

 

As per the definition in the link you did not commit domestic violence as defined by NJ.

No, I did not go to trial or anything like that. The police just wrote it up on a pad, handed it to me and told me to not do it again.

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/dvpolrsp.htm

 

As per the definition in the link you did not commit domestic violence as defined by NJ.

 

What makes you say that Anselmo? It seems pretty clear in that link that I did

What makes you say that Anselmo? It seems pretty clear in that link that I did

 

 

Upon rereading, I think I'm wrong. I didn't see the line regarding the victim being a former or present household member and thought you had to be in a "dating" relationship.

Upon rereading, I think I'm wrong. I didn't see the line regarding the victim being a former or present household member and thought you had to be in a "dating" relationship.

 

My question though is, since it's not a "conviction" and not considered domestic violence where it was issued, would checking "yes" be the right thing to put...

I think if it was "real" conviction it would show up on your criminal history. You should get your court papers and see exactly the charge you were convicted of.

If you read the original post, he says he did a background check and it DID NOT show up.....So, the answer is NO on the FID app......Geesh.... :thsmiley_deadhorse:

My question though is, since it's not a "conviction" and not considered domestic violence where it was issued, would checking "yes" be the right thing to put...

 

Checking yes and submitting the form and never submitting the form will have exactly the same result. You won't have a Firearms purchaser ID. If you were not convicted, then the correct answer is no.

IMHO, from the facts that you have provided, you pled guilty to the domestic violence offense of harassment. However, your answer to:

 

(16) Have you ever been convicted of any domestic violence offense in any jurisdiction which involved the elements of (1) striking, kicking, shoving, or (2) purposely or attempting to or knowingly or recklessly causing bodily injury, or (3) negligently causing bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon? If yes, explain.

should be "no", as a DV harassment conviction is not a disqualifier.

Checking yes and submitting the form and never submitting the form will have exactly the same result. You won't have a Firearms purchaser ID. If you were not convicted, then the correct answer is no.

 

 

Actually checking Yes and submitting is worse than not submitting. Once submitted, then you get to check the "have you ever been denied checkbox" also.

I am not lawyer but this is what I would do if I was you. I would check NO and then submit it.

 

You already said doesn't show up on a background check. On the off chance that something does come thru you can say to them that you didn't check it because in your opinion you don't think you had to.

 

I would assume because you paid that ticket that you basically automatically plead guilty by doing so. However since the laws are different in each state I would think you are good to go.

 

Check no and see what happens.

Just know this, the background check you do and the background check the police do don't always show the same things. I thought I had a clean back ground check, but when the police did a check, they found a petty offense that mine did not have.

At the age of 21, there is nothing important enough to stay in NJ for. Leave before you end up getting trapped.

I was discussing this with a friend who has some familiarity with PA law and the answer is contingent upon what exactly you were charged with and ended up pleading guilty to, below is the PA Harassment statute. If you plead guilty to 2709 a 1 or a 4, you may very well have a problem and you should talk to a lawyer before submitting your app.

 

 

 

§ 2709. Harassment.

(a) Offense defined.--A person commits the crime of

harassment when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another,

the person:

(1) strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects the

other person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to

do the same;

(2) follows the other person in or about a public place

or places;

(3) engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits

acts which serve no legitimate purpose;

(4) communicates to or about such other person any lewd,

lascivious, threatening or obscene words, language, drawings

or caricatures;

(5) communicates repeatedly in an anonymous manner;

(6) communicates repeatedly at extremely inconvenient

hours; or

(7) communicates repeatedly in a manner other than

specified in paragraphs (4), (5) and (6).

 

 

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/crimes-and-offenses/00.027.009.000.html

IMO locate the cop who you would be handing the application to and ask him what HE thinks about the matter. seems like the most useful opinion you can get would be from the person who has to make the decision that youre worried about. :unknw:

IMO locate the cop who you would be handing the application to and ask him what HE thinks about the matter. seems like the most useful opinion you can get would be from the person who has to make the decision that youre worried about. :unknw:

 

If things were fair, it would be ok but I wouldn't recommend this. A lot of police departments in NJ are just looking for a reason to deny an application. No reason to give them any ammunition to be used against you in a court of law.

Alright guys, I've posted this question in several places. I keep getting mixed messages. So finally, I got off my butt and went right "to the source". I called up the district magistrate office in Pennsylvania where the original citation is filed. I asked them, they said it wont be a problem because a summary offense is just like a "write-up" its not a misdemeanor or felony and therefore, technically not a crime in Pennsylvania. I secondly, called the Pennsylvania State Police barracks where that officer was that cited me. I specifically spoke to him and he said that he does not know about NJ but in PA that would not prohibit me from purchasing a firearm.

 

Now of course, those people were in PA, so I didnt stop there. I took a trip to the county police, where handgun permits apps are submitted and their fate either granted or denied. I spoke to the Sargeant nonetheless and he said that because the grading of the offense was not a misdemeanor in PA, its not enough to prohibit a gun permit. He said in NJ it's a misdemeanor (disorderly persons offenses, you guys call them here) and thats why it'd be a problem if it happened in NJ.

 

The last person I talked to, happened to be in charge of the domestic violence division there. His words were, "If that were to have happened in NJ, you would not be charged anyway, because he threw the knife at you and punched you, causing injury, you twisting hit wrist and pushing him off you, you were defending yourself, you would still not be charged here in NJ." He then confirmed that, even still, its not a conviction, its a citation, and that if it were "true" domestic violence, I woulda been arrested, fingerprinted and have had something put on my record.

 

So it appears, answering "no" to the question, "Have you ever been convicted of a domestic violence offense that involved the striking, kicking, shoving of another?" is the correct response, since (a) it is not a conviction, (b) it was not considered domestic violence, and © anyone who would look at the details of what happened would come to the conclusion that I was defending myself.

 

Sooo, I have my answer now. Thank you everyone who took the time to respond.