I've been thinking about it and I've come to the conclusion that I need a 2nd ar. I have a tactical one and now I need for distance.

I support this decision.

I've been thinking about it and I've come to the conclusion that I need a 2nd ar. I have a tactical one and now I need for distance.

 

I agree.

 

I think you should go for a retro build

 

If you're going to build an AR for distance, do it right. Build an AR10.

Do it!

check the marketplace, Old School is selling one!

If you're going to build an AR for distance, do it right. Build an AR10.

That was my thought, I shot mine for the first time on Sat and determined that gun was meant to be .308

do you need a second AR or can you re-use your lower?

 

Do it right, White Oak Armament upper.

 

Sub .5 moa out of my 18 inch stainless steel varmint upper.

Yeah I responded to that post but I might actually want to piece my own together. Unless I got a really good deal im gonna start buying parts.

 

 

This

 

Turned into this

 

 

In 1 month. Buying a gun and a bunch of accessories was easy and was done fast. I want to do a gun that I can spend some time on. I've been debating on a long distance ar or a 1000 yard rifle but as cool as a 1000 yard rifle would be I can't do anything with it. I considered that new mossberg VIP rifle as a happy medium but I think I'm gonna do an ar.

I've been thinking recently that I either need a 3rd AR, or I need to sell my Colt HBAR and buy another carbine. Oh, decisions, decisions......

You can never have to many.

I agree with you. Have fun with it.

.308 flavor - just saying...

 

WTS: DMPS LR-308

The whole .308/5.56 thing is what I'm hung up on. I Like the power of a .308 but then I have a gun I can only use for targets. If I get a 5.56/.223 I can ground hog hunt. Granted I already have a .17hmr I use on them but hunting with an ar has to be fun. As far as long shots go the club I belong to has a 100 yard range but just aquired lmore and and I'm hearing the plan is a 300 yard range. I'm joining a 2nd gun club in nov and they already have a 200 yard range I can use. Either was those distances a 5.56 is fine.

If you're going to build an AR for distance, do it right. Build an AR10.

 

How does an AR-10 differ/compare to a Remy R-25?

The whole .308/5.56 thing is what I'm hung up on. I Like the power of a .308 but then I have a gun I can only use for targets. If I get a 5.56/.223 I can ground hog hunt. Granted I already have a .17hmr I use on them but hunting with an ar has to be fun. As far as long shots go the club I belong to has a 100 yard range but just aquired lmore and and I'm hearing the plan is a 300 yard range. I'm joining a 2nd gun club in nov and they already have a 200 yard range I can use. Either was those distances a 5.56 is fine.

 

I would want one of each caliber, a .308 and a .556. These are two of the most popular calibers out there.

I'm gonna go against the others here and say to build a second one in 556. Easier on ammo, mags and feel. Think of each rifle as primary and secondary, like if one goes down (repairs, maintenance, stolen during a catastrophe, whatever) you have another one ready to rock.

.308 flavor - just saying...

 

WTS: DMPS LR-308

 

 

I own a similar gun and it puts holes on holes.. if you are going to have two.. might as well have one in a different caliber.. and 308 does it for me..

 

IMO of course..

The whole .308/5.56 thing is what I'm hung up on. I Like the power of a .308 but then I have a gun I can only use for targets. If I get a 5.56/.223 I can ground hog hunt. Granted I already have a .17hmr I use on them but hunting with an ar has to be fun. As far as long shots go the club I belong to has a 100 yard range but just aquired lmore and and I'm hearing the plan is a 300 yard range. I'm joining a 2nd gun club in nov and they already have a 200 yard range I can use. Either was those distances a 5.56 is fine.

 

 

I love 7.62X51 Really! Just so damned expensive to shoot.

I love 7.62X51 Really! Just so damned expensive to shoot.

 

 

it is all relative..

 

223 is SO expensive to shoot (when compared to 22)

 

if we only shot cheap ammo we would all be shooting 22 and bulk 12 gauge ammo.. 308 is my more precision gun.. so I focus on precise practiced shots.. when I want to blast away out comes the AKs and steel cased ammo...

 

I like having 308 as an option in case I want to shoot a little distance..

it is all relative..

 

223 is SO expensive to shoot (when compared to 22)

 

if we only shot cheap ammo we would all be shooting 22 and bulk `2 gauge ammo.. 308 is my more precision gun.. so I focus on precise practiced shots.. when I want to blast away out comes the AKs and steel cased ammo...

 

I like having 308 as an option in case I want to shoot a little distance..

Well said

It isn't too bad if you stick to surplus (7.62) or Steel (308), which are about the same price, about 40 cents per round. The Rainier barrel in my SI Defense gun loves DAG/MEN suplus.

 

 

I love 7.62X51 Really! Just so damned expensive to shoot.

The way I look at it I have normal access to ranges from 1-300m. 600m if I get my friend to let me into another range. At those distances 556 will be minute of bad guy.

 

556 is same mags and potentially same ammo as the rest of my ARs.

 

I have a SS RRA upper @18" that is sub moa all day with match factory and hand loads.

The question becomes do you need/want power at disctance. 5.56 can shoot accuratly out to 1k. But most 5.56 loads are really down on power at around 500 yds. If you want power at distance then you are really talking about a 308 AR or one of its varients. There are solutions that will work with your 5.56 lower such as 6.5 Grendal. But I dont like doing it this way because my stock setup for a run and gun rig and a precision rig are significantly different as well as the trigger setup. If your on a budget you can do it this way but I prefer to have seperate rifles. If I could only spring for two, it would be one 5.56 and one 308. If I had a precision 308, I would have no interest in a 5.56 precision rig. In fact now that I think about it, all of my precision based AR's have been 308s. If you want to zap ground hogs, get a 204 ruger upper down the road. Id talk to Tactical Monkey about reliving him of his DPMS. I have shot that rifle and its a good rig.

The question becomes do you need/want power at disctance. 5.56 can shoot accuratly out to 1k. But most 5.56 loads are really down on power at around 500 yds. If you want power at distance then you are really talking about a 308 AR or one of its varients. There are solutions that will work with your 5.56 lower such as 6.5 Grendal. But I dont like doing it this way because my stock setup for a run and gun rig and a precision rig are significantly different as well as the trigger setup. If your on a budget you can do it this way but I prefer to have seperate rifles. If I could only spring for two, it would be one 5.56 and one 308. If I had a precision 308, I would have no interest in a 5.56 precision rig. In fact now that I think about it, all of my precision based AR's have been 308s. If you want to zap ground hogs, get a 204 ruger upper down the road. Id talk to Tactical Monkey about reliving him of his DPMS. I have shot that rifle and its a good rig.

 

Well said.

 

I own 3 16" AR15's and a 20" Armalite AR10. I have no direct experience on what actual bullet effects are past 200 yards, and even then, it's all about holes in paper. I've read some threads on M4carbine.net that went into .308/7.62 vs. 223/5.56. There are accounts of lethal hits being made at 800 yards from an M4. Would I rather be hitting w/ a .308 at 800 yards? Yes, I do believe the .308 has more "effect" at distance. How to quantify that "effect" is the hard thing. Is it enough to put a hole in something at that distance or greater? If that's the case, then yes, the 5.56 will suffice. Some of the new wizz bang 5.56 loads are very interesting, but cost wise, you're getting into .308 territory. Having said that, the AR15's excellent ergonomic platform, coupled w/ the light recoiling 5.56/.223 does provide for a great user interface for shooting quickly and accurately. This is sort of like the .45 / 9mm argument. Are you of the opinion that the heavier recoiling greater mass bullet is the way to go, or the lighter weight lower recoiling bullet, with the idea of possibly more hits on target is preferred? Is the focus having the greater mass of the .308 load at that distance? I don't know. Again, I haven't been there to assess. I will say that I believe that greater mass of the .308 load allows for more forgiveness in effectiveness, especially at distance.

 

Another piece of the puzzle is, what is the effective range of the 5.56/.223? I've read convincing arguments, from those that have been there, that the max effective range is anywhere from 400-600 yards. Yes, the .223/5.56 can accurately hit past that, but it's effectiveness, however that's defined, doesn't seem ideal at longer than 500-600 yards. BTW, from a 16" barrel, the Black Hills Mk 262 Mod 1 round gets to just over 800 yards before it goes transonic. I believe from a 20" barrel, you are right around 900 yards.

 

It seems that on a lot of threads that I've read from the more known and respected names on M4carbine.net, and maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that most prefer the 5.56. I really don't like thinking that I'm speaking for those folks, but, and again, these are MY observations, the idea of rapid follow up shots, light weight, more ammo for a given weight, out to 800 yards or so, supercedes the higher impact power of the .308. I have a lot of respect for those folks, but for me, I'd PREFER a 14.5" - 16" for the closer in stuff and a .308 at anything past 300 or so yards. I could live with 2 5.56's in a 14.5-16" version and a 18-20" better barreled version for the longer stuff, or just one really accurate 16" setup.

Very good thread, I don't have an AR yet, probably sometime next year but I have a feeling the thread title is incorrect.

 

Should it not read: I think I need 1 More AR

 

if you say 2nd are you not just limiting yourself???

 

Harry

A quick glance at the ballistic chart on Winchesters page shows the energy of 5.56 at 500 yards to be around 343Ft/Lbs. Still lethal but about the same energy as a 9mm IIRC. The 308 is still cooking at over 1200Ft/Lbs! That is a very big difference in energy. Even if the 5.56 was double, its still about half a 308. Now I know this is a bit of a departure from the OP's direction but I am of the opinion that the right 308 patterned AR CAN be run very close to the speeds of a 5.56 AR. My particuler quest is for the 0 to 800 yd AR. Like I said, if you need energy at distance, that comes in the form of a 308 (or derivitive). However, with that being said, at closer distance there are some advantages for 308 here as well. That comes in the form of barrier penetration and less deflection in things like brushy conditions for example. Of course these things may be of no interest to most. As far as speed, a drill I did recently on the clock, the difference in total time between the 5.56 platform and the 308 platform was only .22 of a second. It was a fast shooting drill at close range.