Hard to tell what the final failure was, anyone have ideas? Though it looks like between reloads he's sending the charging handle back instead of using the bolt-release. Any ideas why he is doing that? Is it a SOP or something?

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95d_1323928078

Using the charging handle technique is fine, but he was riding the charging handle back into position instead of letting the mechanical motion ensure that the bolt was in full battery-- or at least that's how I saw it too. Seems like a major training scar if this is what he was doing, which is of course operator error.

 

Edited for clarification: For those not familiar with charging handles and ARs, the above is the same concept of riding the slide of a pistol forward instead of allowing the mechanical action to ensure that the pistol is in battery if the individual opts to use the power-stroke method (instead of hitting the slide release). The bolt release functions the same as the slide release, and using the charging handle method is the same idea as power-stroking (compared to slapping the bolt release).

This method is quite popular, but can be a detriment if a person doesn't practice it properly (hence training scar).

Is this even real?

finicky little devils aren't they.............................. If you look at 00:22 ish on the vid, it jams half way through a mag not reloading. There's issues beyond operator error. This happens more frequently than you would think

I got a -1 because I thought the video was fake. Guess I was right.

I cancelled that out for ya ray

I don't know if it is fake or real. It could be a well done fake. It did sound like bullets were whizzing by at some points, but I suppose that can be faked as well. I guess we'll never know.

 

As for the slide technique, makes sense. If one were to ride the charging handle back instead of letting it slam forward on its own, it would cause problems. Almost everybody that I teach on how to shoot my AR for the first time does this, common with SA HG's also. They are afraid they will break something if they just let it fly forward.

How would that cause a failure half way through a mag tho?

True that, if it went bang even after a slide-ride... all subsequent shots should go without a hitch.

[kidding]is this where we start to talk about ARs VS AKs yet?[/kidding]

Most malfunctions with any modern rifle are magazine related.

 

I do agre he is "riding" the charging handle back into the receiver. That would not make it so half-way through a mag he is having issues. Notice not once did he do a Tap-Rack during the video.

 

 

My guess, would be messed up magazines. Notice how he had to adjust a couple of them before putting them in? Bet the feed lips were all jacked.

Is this even real?

 

I would say: possibly

 

-101st Airborne patch on Left Shoulder

-Automatic Fire

-Explosions

 

Seems like a lot of effort to make a fake video...

Sure looks like it's real.

 

As others have mentioned, he should not be riding the charging handle like that.

 

The malfunctions could be caused by any number of things. Ammo, mags, over/under lubed. There's really no way to tell from that video.

Nothing will change. AR guys will be AR guys. AK guys will be AK guys. This has gotten real old.

 

M1A SOCOM, 1911, 590A1

Ray, what are you talking about? If you honestly don't have anything to contribute, don't. The topic had never deviated until you made your post; so, stop trolling.

 

And yea, I agree, most likely a magazine issue. Also notice that he did the original "mag-pul" with his magazines. Not that this is even a top 5 reason of why his magazines might be messed up, but it can be indicative of other mechanical issues.

The first time he tries to clear it, it looks like a failure to eject or a double feed. Later in the video it looks like there are several instances of operator error, probably from stress and assuming everything going on is related to the initial failure. It looks like he is trying to clear a jam when the bcg is locked back. It looks like gravity is the only thing making the charging handle go forward.

 

As for failure, I'm guessing bum mag or bum ejector for number one possibility.

 

Number two possibility is him being a victim of logistics. They have had issues with ammo stored in direct sunlight too long getting too hot and having the powder get wonky and increased pressure from the rounds. One of the main issues stemming from that have been primers backing out or getting blown out of the brass. It's possible he cleared it like a double feed, but the foreign objects gumming things up were spent primers. Which might explain the locked back bcg at the end might have locked it back so he could try getting them out of his trigger group.

 

Only way to really know is to ask the guy in the video.

Looks like it might've been a bolt override malf in the second half of the video

Nothing will change. AR guys will be AR guys. AK guys will be AK guys. This has gotten real old.

 

M1A SOCOM, 1911, 590A1

 

what about me???? i want both

Am I the only one who find his trigger finger position a lil weird? or it's just my imagination ?

The first time he tries to clear it, it looks like a failure to eject or a double feed. Later in the video it looks like there are several instances of operator error, probably from stress and assuming everything going on is related to the initial failure. It looks like he is trying to clear a jam when the bcg is locked back. It looks like gravity is the only thing making the charging handle go forward.

 

As for failure, I'm guessing bum mag or bum ejector for number one possibility.

 

Number two possibility is him being a victim of logistics. They have had issues with ammo stored in direct sunlight too long getting too hot and having the powder get wonky and increased pressure from the rounds. One of the main issues stemming from that have been primers backing out or getting blown out of the brass. It's possible he cleared it like a double feed, but the foreign objects gumming things up were spent primers. Which might explain the locked back bcg at the end might have locked it back so he could try getting them out of his trigger group.

 

Only way to really know is to ask the guy in the video.

 

Raz - How can you get a blown primer into the trigger group? Doesn't seem mechamically possible. But if it did happen some how, WOW what a MOFO.

 

Caine, mentioned "bolt over ride" Is that a buffer spring issue? I've never seen that happen but I've never delt with really beaten rifles either, Please discuss...

Way too little info to make a call on this. We have no idea how he's maintaining his weapon, what kind of handling it went through directly prior to this action, what kind of shape the magazines are in, what kind of shape the ammo is in, etc. He's also riding the charging handle in, a clear no-no (probably due to the stress of the situation). I see no need to make a federal case about this, or to make this an AK vs AR argument.

Shitty situation, but he seemed to handle it pretty well.

Raz - How can you get a blown primer into the trigger group? Doesn't seem mechamically possible. But if it did happen some how, WOW what a MOFO.

It's apparently not an uncommon occurrence with Federal XM193 - I've read a number of AARs from Pat Rogers carbine classes where this exact thing happens. Never seen it myself or known anyone it's happened to, so take it for what it's worth

 

Caine, mentioned "bolt over ride" Is that a buffer spring issue? I've never seen that happen but I've never delt with really beaten rifles either, Please discuss...

I think some people call them "charging handle impingement" malfunctions... or maybe I have my malfunctions mixed up again. Basically, a spent or live round gets jammed above the charging handle OR between the charging handle and bolt. The user tries to clear the malfunction not realizing there's a round stuck up there and in the process of trying to do the typical "rip, rack rack rack" ends up making the jam worse. The best way to clear it is use a tool, bullet tip, or a gloved hand to manually move the bolt reward to relieve pressure/blockage of the round and allow the user to fish it out.

 

Chris, from MDTS, has a great article on AR malfunctions that explains how to clear some of the malfunctions being discussed:

http://www.mdtstrain..._MDTS_Part2.pdf

It's apparently not an uncommon occurrence with Federal XM193 - I've read a number of AARs from Pat Rogers carbine classes where this exact thing happens. Never seen it myself or known anyone it's happened to, so take it for what it's worth

 

 

I think some people call them "charging handle impingement" malfunctions... or maybe I have my malfunctions mixed up again. Basically, a spent or live round gets jammed above the charging handle OR between the charging handle and bolt. The user tries to clear the malfunction not realizing there's a round stuck up there and in the process of trying to do the typical "rip, rack rack rack" ends up making the jam worse. The best way to clear it is use a tool, bullet tip, or a gloved hand to manually move the bolt reward to relieve pressure/blockage of the round and allow the user to fish it out.

 

Chris, from MDTS, has a great article on AR malfunctions that explains how to clear some of the malfunctions being discussed:

http://www.mdtstrain..._MDTS_Part2.pdf

 

Troops haven't been issues XM193 since 'nam I think. They usually get the M855/855A1...

Troops haven't been issues XM193 since 'nam I think. They usually get the M855/855A1...

Correct - I was specifically commenting on Frank's question about how popped primers end up in the trigger group, and I didn't mean to imply that the soldier in question was using XM193... particularly since XM ammo is only sold on the commercial market from what I understand.

Yes - Chris covered the charging handle impingement malfunction in the MDTS Combatative Carbine class. You have to hook a finger or tool onto the bolt itself to get it to move independently of the charging handle to clear it.

Yes - Chris covered the charging handle impingement malfunction in the MDTS Combatative Carbine class. You have to hook a finger or tool onto the bolt itself to get it to move independently of the charging handle to clear it.

 

That would suck to do if you've been shooting a lot... AR-15 bolts get a lot of heat dumped on em.

 

As for charging handle impingement... only on an AR-15 platform...

That would suck to do if you've been shooting a lot... AR-15 bolts get a lot of heat dumped on em.

 

As for charging handle impingement... only on an AR-15 platform...

 

He showed us we could hold the bolt itself and not the bolt face... there's also ways to use brass to hold it.

Only way to really know is to ask the guy in the video.

 

+1.

He showed us we could hold the bolt itself and not the bolt face... there's also ways to use brass to hold it.

 

True. Still a PITA, and something that is fairly limited to the AR platform.

That would suck to do if you've been shooting a lot... AR-15 bolts get a lot of heat dumped on em.

 

As for charging handle impingement... only on an AR-15 platform...

 

This is what i refer to as a WTF malfunction and should only be fixed by transitioning to a pistol or going hands on. Not something you want to fix mid gunfight.