"but it gets harder to deny with each passing day" ... yep it does. And yes this mixture of prez/congress/senate has been nothing but a toxic mess, totally agree. Cant say I have ever been less happy with leadership. Plus I want to add a little of pop psych in here, because I dont think leadership believes there own BS most of the times, but feel they have to to pander to the idiots in our society. I will say this about my boss... I think he will go down as one of the biggest political disapointments in world history... the first black man elected to a super power, and he screwed the pooch.

 

By the way, prepping is my hobby. It is what we should all do.

 

Now this I agree with! The only thing I don't quite agree with is

 

but feel they have to to pander to the idiots in our society

 

I feel it is quite the opposite actually. They pander to lobbyists and the bankers that are running the government from the background. They don't pander to the idiots, they count on the idiots going along with what they say...

Bone... I dont think your looking at this from a world view. I will try to get you some reference later tonight, as my books are at home. But look at this way. If Iraq becomes a regional superpower in the mid 90s, it would have weakend Iran because they would have needed to spend cash to strenghten themselves against Iraq. If Iran depletes their coffers, they become susceptible to take over by the Taliban, giving the Taliban a larger base and resources from which to start the new Caliphate. Now with the hypothetical takeover of Iran, this new Caliphate expands into surrounding countries effecting relations and therefore trade in the Gulf area, mainly oil but spices, food and other materials. So to keep the Taliban in check, and Iran where it needs to be, a thorn in the arse to all (remember Iran is not an Arab country) the US takes out Afghanistan and the Taliban and keeps Iran's economy on track. This keeps things somewhat peaceful, confused but peaceful for the other countries in the region insuring materials moving and money moving around the region. Sorry, in my take it was done for world trade.

 

I think you are looking for too much logic in world politics, there rarely is any as there are too many players with too many agendas and forces pressing one way or the other.

 

And media monitoring is not spying.

Because I know that we cant figure out how to wipe our own rear ends some days, let alone spend time spying on a hard working, US citizen that like to practice his 2nd amendment. Do you really think there is some many thousand strong US gov workforce out there trying to spy on the 160 million US citizens. You really think that of the DHS employees, that there are enough really smart people in there to do that job?

 

They don't have spying per se', they have very sophisticated equipment that pinpoints phrases and sayings,etc. My friend is pretty high up in intelligence and tells me even though you can post anonymously they can trace IP addresses and pin point most people easily. Now that is scary... I asked him how often they do this and he just smiled. I asked again and he rubbed his forehead and changed the subject. We think our privacy is protected but I think it is a farce.

And the idiots get fed by the media and lobbyists.

they can trace IP addresses and pin point most people easily .....

 

Yes they do. But you, no. Why ... because you dont fit the profile. unless you are out there typing anti US slogans and threating POTUS. And trust me, most people in DHS are more like you then they are like OWS participants.

There's not going to be an issue of what normal, law abiding people are posting. The issue will be when these very stupid people post criminal information that DHS uses against them. That's what they're after. They know these idiots are stupid enough to makes their jobs much easier, by posting incriminating info.

 

Thats the thought process that starts it, oh they are only look for this or that, sooner or later an inch becomes a mile....

And the idiots get fed by the media and lobbyists.

 

 

Monitoring secretly. Spying. Call it what you want. It is all the same.

 

 

 

Thats the thought process that starts it, oh they are only look for this or that, sooner or later an inch becomes a mile....

Exactly.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

(though whether they are good intentions or not has yet to be seen)

Bone... I dont think your looking at this from a world view. I will try to get you some reference later tonight, as my books are at home. But look at this way. If Iraq becomes a regional superpower in the mid 90s, it would have weakend Iran because they would have needed to spend cash to strenghten themselves against Iraq. If Iran depletes their coffers, they become susceptible to take over by the Taliban, giving the Taliban a larger base and resources from which to start the new Caliphate. Now with the hypothetical takeover of Iran, this new Caliphate expands into surrounding countries effecting relations and therefore trade in the Gulf area, mainly oil but spices, food and other materials. So to keep the Taliban in check, and Iran where it needs to be, a thorn in the arse to all (remember Iran is not an Arab country) the US takes out Afghanistan and the Taliban and keeps Iran's economy on track. This keeps things somewhat peaceful, confused but peaceful for the other countries in the region insuring materials moving and money moving around the region. Sorry, in my take it was done for world trade.

 

I think you are looking for too much logic in world politics, there rarely is any as there are too many players with too many agendas and forces pressing one way or the other.

 

And media monitoring is not spying.

 

Yes, this is all a game of chess and the pawns better start standing up for themselves.

By the way... want to see one of the ultra secret monitoring systems we use here at FEMA ( :wild: ) to prepare for the "Great Boxing" we like to joke around here at the office about. This is Social Media Monitoring. Dont hit the link unless you want to have your name, address, sex, shoe size and underwear preference show up on "the list"

http://trendsmap.com/

Who cares?

 

If you put out something in the public domain, are you really that surprised that someone has a copy?

 

Government have always spied on people, the only reason you are hearing about it now is because of open access to many records.

 

 

As far as facebook comments and people getting in trouble? Seriously? You make a public post to all your friends, and their friends, and the public to see, and you don't expect your boss to?

 

When I was a manager at Ameriprise and helped hire at UBS, we would do a social media check on every candidate we were going to bring in for an interview.

1. Google the email address and phone number, then name.

2. Facebook search the person.

 

 

Google is a better search than any criminal background check. =) Some of these people, wow. =)

I remember about 10 years ago the PRIVATE cable companies wanted to find out which stations people tuned into so they can sell advertising better. OH MY GOODNESS the uproar over that was amazing. People were screaming about invasion of privacy, Unconstituional, illegal, they should be put in jail,etc. The ironic thing is the cable company owns the cable, the box and all the equipment. You don't like it cut the cable... Now the government that has the power to make laws and throw people in jail can arrest someone without a court order (DDB) reads emails, posts, listens in on conversation why is there a lack of backlash? What the cable companie did was NOT Unconstitutional, but what the government is doing IS! Perplexed....

Yeah, what mikelets456 said.

+1000

 

Who cares?

 

If you put out something in the public domain, are you really that surprised that someone has a copy?

 

Government have always spied on people, the only reason you are hearing about it now is because of open access to many records.

 

 

 

 

As far as facebook comments and people getting in trouble? Seriously? You make a public post to all your friends, and their friends, and the public to see, and you don't expect your boss to?

 

 

It isn't that we don't expect our bosses or employers or others we know to not know what we say. Or that we don't think we should get in trouble at work for something we said online. It is that the government is using things people say online to profile them and potentially classify them as some sort of terrorist, or an excuse or reason to monitor all communication from said individual. There is a vast difference. In fact, your example and comparison is something that is totally different.

Who cares?

 

If you put out something in the public domain, are you really that surprised that someone has a copy?

 

Government have always spied on people, the only reason you are hearing about it now is because of open access to many records.

 

 

As far as facebook comments and people getting in trouble? Seriously? You make a public post to all your friends, and their friends, and the public to see, and you don't expect your boss to?

 

When I was a manager at Ameriprise and helped hire at UBS, we would do a social media check on every candidate we were going to bring in for an interview.

1. Google the email address and phone number, then name.

2. Facebook search the person.

 

 

Google is a better search than any criminal background check. =) Some of these people, wow. =)

 

Really? You've come to the conclusion that that is just part of life? So accept it? If a cop wanted to stay parked in front of your house daily with binoculars and sound enhancing dish...you'd be cool with that? Government would spy with reasonable suspicion of criminal activities but the rules are changing they're simply LOOKING now for people to "target". No prior records, no nothing..just targeting innocent hardworking people. This is simply the "firearms" argument but on a different level. Innocent people are always the ones to suffer when it is "for our protection".

Oh please. Fast forward to now and you still have the idiots that feel there are people at "ezPass Headquarters" who get paid to monitor user's every move, etc. Talk about those whose wear "tin hats". Jeez.

Anyone who thinks ANYTHING on the internet (Email, facebook, chats google)

is secure or private needs to have their head examined.

Once its out there consider all data public domain because that's what it is.

Better than 98% of intelligence is collected overtly. If this bothers you don't post on the internet.

They can trace my IP address anytime they want so they know where I am so they can kiss my a**.

They can trace my IP address anytime they want so they know where I am so they can kiss my a**.

 

One click and I get... "nwrknj.east.verizon.net"

 

A few more clicks and I can get the city.... but too damn tired to do.

 

Its pretty funny, if you use google search, gmail, facebook, yahoo, youtube.... they can come up with a very intelligent profile about you.

 

Maybe it is the naivety in this country, or growing up in the soviet union.... but that is how intelligence is gathered. There is nothing private short of you doing your thing in the bedroom. If you are not doing anything to stick out, nothing to worry about, if anyone really worried, move to the boonies or a third world country and live off of the land.

 

Anyone seen how detailed the photos are on google maps or better yet MS Bing?

Another good place to find people is www.zabasearch.com

Maks... MS Bing has a DHS contract to update their aerial and street level photos every two years for the USA! That is an unbelievable effort... and one that is being done for multitude of reasons. For my job is just one example, during Search and Rescue activities, lets say a hurricane wipes out a neighborhood. No street signs or identifying features. Accurate PRE-EVENT aerial photos and street level shots used in conjunction with POST-EVENT immagery and the US National Grid allows USAR teams to accurately cover ground effectively.

 

So we are trading the sense of privacy for security. It is Big Brother, and Orwell was spot on to a point. He underestimated the extent of the US citizens will to push back by about 80 years, hopefully longer. But politicians look at Singapore, Isreal, London and other cities that use Video Monitoring extensively and think it is the way to go for public safety concerns, which supposedly trump privacy concerns.

One click and I get... "nwrknj.east.verizon.net"

 

A few more clicks and I can get the city.... but too damn tired to do.

 

Its pretty funny, if you use google search, gmail, facebook, yahoo, youtube.... they can come up with a very intelligent profile about you.

 

Maybe it is the naivety in this country, or growing up in the soviet union.... but that is how intelligence is gathered. There is nothing private short of you doing your thing in the bedroom. If you are not doing anything to stick out, nothing to worry about, if anyone really worried, move to the boonies or a third world country and live off of the land.

 

Anyone seen how detailed the photos are on google maps or better yet MS Bing?

 

Maks, I have the utmost respect for you and have met you at a few events in the past so please don't take this the wrong way. What bothers me quite a bit is when people say "if you're not doing anything wrong then don't worry.." However, that's how it always starts but when the wrong people get into power then even an innocent/moral action or speech can be deemed a threat.

 

I work with a few people that grew up in the Ukraine and the key (they say) to a takeover is "incrementalism". Little by little things were taken away. PC replaced free speech, rights replaced freedoms and government replaced God. Upwards of 60 million plus innocent people died under Stalin. Under the guise of "incrementalism" and "your safety". The point is not if our information is public or not... we know standing in the middle of the mall and airing out our personal information is stupid...that's not the point. What concerns me is the government following around whomever they want even if they are not deemed a threat. I don't like the idea of a beurocrat (with POWER) snooping through my daughter's private information because she posted about Ron Paul or something Anti-Union as an example. Remeber when Napolitano deemed vets and people with Ron Paul stickers and Christians as a threat? http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread455625/pg1

I know people will say "you're crazy they don't care about you if you keep a low profile"....but why? Is that being truley free? I thought freedom was airing your opinion and thoughts even if they are stupid. Have we been brainwashed to the point where airing our opinions are now stupid?

 

DHS (read what they are doing closely) are monitoring the Drudge, NY Times, Facebook, Twitter, posts, blogs,etc. Not because they have a lead on a terrorist but looking at opinions or free speech that THEY DEEM "dangerous". I don't know about you but government monitoring these sites is step number one in many more to come. BTW, freedom is saying what you want without fear of ramifications. This is tetering or pivoting on the edge of that freedom... and there is no in between. You're either free or you are not.

All the above crap about the Gov analyzing the world situation, making decisions, taking action and making it all better is absurd. Oh, how about a war we need for x, y and z reasons. We'll only get 5,000 killed and 20,000 maimed. Not too bad. And when we leave nothing will have changed - maybe even get worse.

 

Why doesn't the Gov go fix the mess in the whole of Africa? Because they can't. And they can't fix anything else either.

 

How about we stay alert, be ready, leave our own citizens alone and mind our own business. Don't answer because I will. This, like the War on Drugs, is an industry. Those in the industry need to keep it alive. Feed it. Prop it up. Make it up. Do what you must to keep it alive.

 

 

 

Meanwhile go 15 Trillion in debt and assure that we go down the tubes from internal, not foreign, causes.

"...is an industry" is basically my point all along. The USA is a capitalist country, it exists to make money. Whether that business is farming, real estate or war. Someone, somewhere is making money, making money is key to our survival, key to our neighbors and other countries survival. Why do you think our Navy costs more per year then most countries GDPs? Because TRADE is some important to the US democratic model. Without a strong Navy we will have less or reduced sea going trade. The USA is basically a corporation and corporations make and lose money in cycles.

 

Now ask yourself, would you rather be a capitalist or something else? Stay and make it better by changing the Pols or leave, Delta is ready when you are.

" The USA is basically a corporation and corporations make and lose money in cycles.

 

Not basically, it is a corporation. Not just in theory, or operation, but legally speaking as well. There is always a reason the government does something some way. The problem is, too many people think that way, is "for the good of the people". It is almost never that reason. That is the point that needs to come to light. The problem? That is what the government does NOT want to happen. Which is why they try and criminalize those that point this out, or shut them out of the media (RP), or do whatever they can to discredit those people. And that, makes me sick.

Not basically, it is a corporation. Not just in theory, or operation, but legally speaking as well. There is always a reason the government does something some way. The problem is, too many people think that way, is "for the good of the people". It is almost never that reason. That is the point that needs to come to light. The problem? That is what the government does NOT want to happen. Which is why they try and criminalize those that point this out, or shut them out of the media (RP), or do whatever they can to discredit those people. And that, makes me sick.

 

 

Trust me, you don't want the country run like it was a business. If it was, your parents and grandparents would lose much more than what they have already.

In time....

The USA is a crappy corporation with a crappy CEO. =P

 

I think the USA is being run like a non for profit.... straight into the ground.

The USA is a crappy corporation with a crappy CEO. =P

 

I think the USA is being run like a non for profit.... straight into the ground.

 

+1 especially to the crappy CEO.

I respectfully disagree. Any private sector corporation run as is this country would have been bankrupt, broken up by the board of directors or subject to a hostile takeover decades ago.

 

Now that I think of it, we are in the midst of a hostile takeover but the majority are either too dumb or uninterested to notice. For those who enjoy fiction - read Brad Thor's newest novel "Full Black". Then tell me who is the enemy.

The concept of USA=corporation is at least interesting. Let's see what is wrong then. The CEO(Bush, Obama,...) does not face a Board of Directors. The CEO can't be fired in a timely fashion. The stockholders (citizens) cannot remove their investments(taxes) and place them in a better corp. An actual USA Inc. would have failed financially long ago.

 

I guess I don't mind the Navy policing shipping lanes for international trade. That is a far cry from installing democracy in countries that do not believe in separation of church and state. USA Inc. has no business telling them that they are wrong or misguided. The Great Caliphate is coming and from their persepctive it's not a bad idea.

 

It is a real problem if the product of USA Inc. is war. First we have not been able to pay for them. Second (with respect to all who faithfully served) we have not won from maybe 1965 and on. Maybe Bain Cap. should take over the failing USA Inc.

 

Thanks to a post above I have found a new hero. Michael Scheuer for President.