Florida senior citizen shoots, kills suspected burglar

Good old 45 acp man stopper for sure.

Okay, I am putting on Nomex for this one.

 

Its great that such an old guy killed a would be burglar that could have potentially killed him(inevitably his $0.40 .45 ACP saved the taxpayer a dime or two, as well) but I think its reckless as anything to just shoot a guy THROUGH your door without even identifying the threat. Seriously, that could have been a family member or perhaps even someone fleeing for safety.

 

I know, I know, 6AM yadda yadda yadda. I would have called the police, held him at gunpoint, and shot him if he moved, myself.

Don't mess with an old man and his .45..

 

said Mike Chitwood, the chief of Daytona Beach police. “And that’s put this burglar out of business this morning.”

Okay, I am putting on Nomex for this one.

 

Its great that such an old guy killed a would be burglar that could have potentially killed him(inevitably his $0.40 .45 ACP saved the taxpayer a dime or two, as well) but I think its reckless as anything to just shoot a guy THROUGH your door without even identifying the threat. Seriously, that could have been a family member or perhaps even someone fleeing for safety.

 

I know, I know, 6AM yadda yadda yadda. I would have called the police, held him at gunpoint, and shot him if he moved, myself.

 

In a ski mask with a hammer? My family wouldn't think of comming by dressed like that.

Okay, I am putting on Nomex for this one.

 

Its great that such an old guy killed a would be burglar that could have potentially killed him(inevitably his $0.40 .45 ACP saved the taxpayer a dime or two, as well) but I think its reckless as anything to just shoot a guy THROUGH your door without even identifying the threat. Seriously, that could have been a family member or perhaps even someone fleeing for safety.

 

I know, I know, 6AM yadda yadda yadda. I would have called the police, held him at gunpoint, and shot him if he moved, myself.

Kidding right?

 

A man breaking into your house at six am wearing a ski mask?

You're 82 and cant ourun or out fight the man breaking in.

1 to the chest make sure he won't harm you or any one else.

Sounds like a win to me.

 

As to shooting through the door, ever seen a door with a window in it?

Old guy obviously saw what he was shooting at and hit his target.

 

 

You'd never hear this in Jersey:

 

“The 82-year-old resident did something that the criminal justice system couldn’t do,” said Mike Chitwood, the chief of Daytona Beach police. “And that’s put this burglar out of business this morning.”

The way I read it, the suspect was still outside attempting to gain entrance to the house. The old-man saw him through the window of the door, fired and killed him. The perp never made it into the house.

The way I read it, the suspect was still outside attempting to gain entrance to the house. The old-man saw him through the window of the door, fired and killed him. The perp never made it into the house.

 

And that folks, is what it's like to have a castle doctrine..

Police Chief Chitwood also said on live TV that the Perp had a screwdriver that he used to "jimmy-open the back door" and that there was physical evidence of the door being jimmied.

 

Chief also said that the 82 year old saw the intruder through the back door prior to firing. Didn't say what kind of door...might have been a sliding glass door for all we know????

 

.45 for the WIN!

So in NJ you would have to call the cops and wait for him to enter before shooting?

So in NJ you would have to call the cops and wait for him to enter before shooting?

 

IIRC in the door frame to be clear of criminal charges. You have to let the guy murder you to be clear of civil charges though.

Here you would probably have to warn him you had a gun, call the cops then wait for him to enter before shooting him. Oh and articulate why you felt threatened. The articulation is a lot easier or an 82 year old

Here you would probably have to warn him you had a gun, call the cops then wait for him to enter before shooting him. Oh and articulate why you felt threatened. The articulation is a lot easier or an 82 year old

 

This is in contravention of NJ "Castle Law" and the accompanying Case law. You have no obligation to retreat. Your doorway/porch/precipice are considered part of the dwelling.

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/30892-njsa-2c3-4-self-defense-use-of-force-in-self-protection/

 

 

You are not required to retreat, or surrender possession and are entitled to use deadly force provided you are not the initial aggressor, you fear for your life and safety or the life and safety of others and the intruder does not comply with an order to disarm or vacate.

 

At least, that is the letter of the law. Whether a DA would choose to prosecute? unknown. Could you be sued civilly? Sure.

 

Would they win? Who cares? You'd be alive.

The way I read it, the suspect was still outside attempting to gain entrance to the house. The old-man saw him through the window of the door, fired and killed him. The perp never made it into the house.

 

Yea, feel good now. Lawsuit later.

Yea, feel good now. Lawsuit later.

 

I may be wrong, but I believe that Florida's castle law provides for immunity from civil liability if the force was justified.

I may be wrong, but I believe that Florida's castle law provides for immunity from civil liability if the force was justified.

You would be correct in that assumption. Their Castle Doctrine also covers vehicles and I think Concealed Carry. As long as you felt like your life was in danger, and the investigation shows it was a legitimate defensive shoot, then you are immune from civil and criminal action.

You are not required to retreat, or surrender possession and are entitled to use deadly force provided you are not the initial aggressor, you fear for your life and safety or the life and safety of others and the intruder does not comply with an order to disarm or vacate.

I would love to have a REAL castle doctrine like in some other states wherein even someone breaking in a house can be shot and killed without having to worry about criminal or civil prosecution.

 

My property/belongings may not be worth it for some, but it's mine, it's worth something to me, and I worked hard for it. I'll be damned if I let anyone just take it. If someone asks "is it worth your life?" my response will be "apparentlly, it is worth theirs."

Obviously, I agree with you. My goal was to point out clearly what NJ law actually says as opposed to the untrue hyperbole that is borne out of frustration with the law.

 

 

 

I would love to have a REAL castle doctrine like in some other states wherein even someone breaking in a house can be shot and killed without having to worry about criminal or civil prosecution.

 

My property/belongings may not be worth it for some, but it's mine, it's worth something to me, and I worked hard for it. I'll be damned if I let anyone just take it. If someone asks "is it worth your life?" my response will be "apparentlly, it is worth theirs."

Hopefully, the old man has some more .45s laying around.

I may be wrong, but I believe that Florida's castle law provides for immunity from civil liability if the force was justified.

 

Correct. What I was commenting on was,in my own mind anyway, was juxtuposition of this incident happening in New Jersey instead of Florida.

 

I wonder if organisations like the SAF challenge these kinds of laws too?

We may not need them to, A886 would expand our castle doctrine to include an occupied vehicle and immunity from civil liability if it passes.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1389706573001/82-year-old-kills-intruder/

 

This gives a better idea of maybe. Top of the door is glass, so maybe he could actually see that the guy wasn't just a friendly neighbor. It also shows just how old this guy was and how quickly he could get around. I think these things are definitely factors when picking a good example for castle doctrine talk.

I've thought about what i might do in a similar situation. One thought of course is shoot to terminate the invader. No chance of the perp changing their 'reason' for breaking in ( like ' I thought it was my house and forgot my keys and it was cold, so I wore my ski mask' or similar....) and reducing the chance of being sued by him or family, though you probably would be. The other thought is shooting to disable the perp. Of course with this scenario you would almost certainly get sued, jailed and lord knows whatever else they could figure to do to you. And that's assuming the perp isn't armed and starts firing back. Plus possible retribution by the perp at a later date...

 

If the criminal element knew that there was a good chance the homes they were breaking into could be armed, that might discourage some of them. But with NJ law and the difficulty in getting gun permits, they're going to be pretty confident the house occupants won't be armed...

 

One thought of course is shoot to terminate the invader. No chance of the perp changing their 'reason' for breaking in ( like ' I thought it was my house and forgot my keys and it was cold, so I wore my ski mask' or similar....) and reducing the chance of being sued by him or family, though you probably would be. The other thought is shooting to disable the perp.

 

Shoot Center Mass til the threat is stopped anything else will either get you killed ("I tried a head shot and missed") or arrested (Dead men tell no tails).

Is it sad that, even if someone was breaking in my house, Im going to be worrying about what's going to happen to me when I shoot him down?? I just don't trust this state and the laws.