This article, which relates the history of why Apple makes its products overseas, is an interesting analysis of how concepts and manufacturing realities such as supply chain, component availability, employee skills and flexibility (and yes, cost), have resulted in jobs going overseas "never to return"

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=2&ref=charlesduhigg&pagewanted=all

 

It makes both interesting and depressing reading.

 

enjoy!

G

Nice article. Keep in mind the NYT is a liberal biased source. From the article you can argue that foreign workers are just slaves on the assembly line. Yet their standard of living is better now than it was before. Before the masses were pre industrial, meaning farming. We live in a totally different world today than a decade ago. Things have changed for the better & for the worst. Global competition is here to stay. How? Massive container ships & a global fibre optic network. Not only are manufacturing jobs going overseas but also service jobs. Due to cheap telecommunication costs today, you'll get sub standard low cost service when you call for laptop support, phone company support, bank customer services, etc...

Due to cheap telecommunication costs today, you'll get sub standard low cost service when you call for laptop support, phone company support, bank customer services, etc...

just because it's low cost, it doesn't necessarily mean it's sub standard. I think it all depends on the worker's attitude and the company's training methods.

just because it's low cost, it doesn't necessarily mean it's sub standard. I think it all depends on the worker's attitude and the company's training methods.

Correct. But due to high employee turnover oveseas & low wages, why would employers invest in training? For instance, they just trained some guy going to their competitior. Also English as a 2nd language often cause miscommunication & frustration. And let's not forget the long long wait time on hold.

One of several reasons I refuse to own apple products.....

One of several reasons I refuse to own apple products.....

 

I suppose you only buy computers and phones made in the US of US parts? I guess you have neither.

I'd imagine that if industry in the US was like it was in the late 1800's into the early 20th century there would still be plenty of jobs in the US. But people complained about the conditions and quality of treatment, and said it was dangerous, and the pay wasn't so good, so more regulations were added until we ended up where cost vs. profit was no longer at a sustainable factor for a successful business. So what do you expect? And that is to ignore some other pretty major factors that the article touched on, and I don't care to mention.

I'd imagine that if industry in the US was like it was in the late 1800's into the early 20th century there would still be plenty of jobs in the US. But people complained about the conditions and quality of treatment, and said it was dangerous, and the pay wasn't so good, so more regulations were added until we ended up where cost vs. profit was no longer at a sustainable factor for a successful business. So what do you expect? And that is to ignore some other pretty major factors that the article touched on, and I don't care to mention.

 

The problem is that these companies want to see more and more profit each year for selling the same damn product. The People who make the decision to outsource are the ones shoving the money deep into their pocket. People make plenty of money in the US selling US made products. The people running these companies just want to see more zeros at the end of their paycheck, it has little to do with a company not being able to make a profit. If you sell a good product you will always make money, if you find a way to make the same product cheaper(outsourcing) then you just increase the margin of profit.... US proud companies may not take as much home at the end of the day, but they contribute way more to success of this country then pushing money into their pockets and into the pockets of other countries.

 

People, especially in business, are usually only concerned about the maximum amount of profit they can make, and leave little else to consider, it's the whole get rich quick technique. People no longer want to be burdened by what it takes to build a successful company. Take apple for example, you would think their prices would be competitively low due to outsourcing, yet they remain to be the most over priced product.

I suppose you only buy computers and phones made in the US of US parts? I guess you have neither.

It reminds me of a conversation with a gentleman who chastised me for owning German Automobiles and claimed he only bought all American cars. After pointing out that his American car had less than 18% of it's parts designed,produced or assembled in the US....he became quiet also.

I suppose you only buy computers and phones made in the US of US parts? I guess you have neither.

 

 

I said this was one of SEVERAL reasons. And where in my post did I say I only purchase USA made products?

 

Jack's post pretty much summed up my feelings. Especially Apple products being over priced.

The problem is that these companies want to see more and more profit each year for selling the same damn product. The People who make the decision to outsource are the ones shoving the money deep into their pocket. People make plenty of money in the US selling US made products. The people running these companies just want to see more zeros at the end of their paycheck, it has little to do with a company not being able to make a profit. If you sell a good product you will always make money, if you find a way to make the same product cheaper(outsourcing) then you just increase the margin of profit.... US proud companies may not take as much home at the end of the day, but they contribute way more to success of this country then pushing money into their pockets and into the pockets of other countries.

 

People, especially in business, are usually only concerned about the maximum amount of profit they can make, and leave little else to consider, it's the whole get rich quick technique. People no longer want to be burdened by what it takes to build a successful company. Take apple for example, you would think their prices would be competitively low due to outsourcing, yet they remain to be the most over priced product.

Apple as a brand has such recognition and cache worldwide for offering only a cutting edge,quality product that for them to offer any at a so called reasonable price would only erode their image and perception of quality and innovation.The charge what they believe their technology is worth and judging from their sales....they appear to be right.

Charging what the market will bear is as American as Apple Pie.......Pun entirely intended.

If it your personal opinion that Apple prices are more than you wish to spend, that is fine, and understandable. The benefit of having an almost free market, is you have the option of not buying their products. But if you just think their prices are over priced in general, then you may need to take another economics class. Why on earth would anyone REDUCE the price of their product when there is already a huge demand at their current prices? Would I like to pay less for things? Obviously, who wouldn't? Does that mean things are over priced? Only if it decrease the demand to the point where you start losing money...

 

Edit:

 

Yeah, what Duppie said.

The problem is that these companies want to see more and more profit each year for selling the same damn product. The People who make the decision to outsource are the ones shoving the money deep into their pocket. People make plenty of money in the US selling US made products. The people running these companies just want to see more zeros at the end of their paycheck, it has little to do with a company not being able to make a profit. If you sell a good product you will always make money, if you find a way to make the same product cheaper(outsourcing) then you just increase the margin of profit.... US proud companies may not take as much home at the end of the day, but they contribute way more to success of this country then pushing money into their pockets and into the pockets of other countries.

 

People, especially in business, are usually only concerned about the maximum amount of profit they can make, and leave little else to consider, it's the whole get rich quick technique. People no longer want to be burdened by what it takes to build a successful company. Take apple for example, you would think their prices would be competitively low due to outsourcing, yet they remain to be the most over priced product.

 

I as a small business owner, respectfully disagree. People as a rule, are basically penny-wise and pound foolish. Forget about Apple or jobs going overseas for a moment. It's really about how we spend our money and what that forces others to do. Take this forum for instance, and it's members unwillingness to even begin to understand the difference in overhead of a part-timer "Kitchen Table FFL" and one who is running a real brick & mortar sporting goods business with loads of extra overhead & inventory. It's all over this forum that a transfer costs a whole $50.00 or even more at some stores, plus the NICS check. So el-cheapos would rather mail-order guns to a "Kitchen Table FFL" than support a real local business. Maintaining an inventory for prospective buyers to drool over costs money, and so does everything from healthcare to carpet cleaning. Most of these things a part-timer doesn't have to take into consideration, since being a FFL for some is just a hobby that they make a few bucks at after they finish work that day. Meanwhile, some of the same members here bi**h that stores that sell ammo go out of business, forcing them to mail-order that stuff too! Seems like a never-ending vicious cycle to me! NO offense to anyone here, just one opinion of someone who enjoys going to a local store and will gladly pay a $75.00 transfer fee plus NICS to keep the guy in business. Or just buy stuff from his inventory or via no extra-charge special order, thus avoiding the transfer fee altogether! This IMHO is just ONE example of how our own community fails to see the trees for the forest.

Apple as a brand has such recognition and cache worldwide for offering only a cutting edge,quality product that for them to offer any at a so called reasonable price would only erode their image and perception of quality and innovation.The charge what they believe their technology is worth and judging from their sales....they appear to be right.

Charging what the market will bear is as American as Apple Pie.......Pun entirely intended.

Please dont make me laugh... unless your editing audio or video apple offers nothing but a nice over priced apparel accessory. Until it became "cool" to own an apple pruduct there prices were competitive. I'm not talking about whats right or wrong or should they do it... The absolutely do NOT charge what they think there technology is worth, they charge what they think some dumb kid will pay.

 

I can build you an apple computer aside from the case for half of what they charge... how do they pump up the prices of there technology by almost 2x? Apple doesnt make half the Sh8t they sell anyway, they just assemble a computer throw an apple on the case and charge as much for it as they can. Apple is trend, nothing more.

 

Again, right or wrong, the point is.... Apples pockets get fat, while money is leaving the country and your pocket. While apple doubles there money on every product unit they sell. Why not keep the jobs in the country if they are able to charge so much?

Please dont make me laugh... unless your editing audio or video apple offers nothing but a nice over priced apparel accessory. Until it became "cool" to own an apple pruduct there prices were competitive. I'm not talking about whats right or wrong or should they do it... The absolutely do NOT charge what they think there technology is worth, they charge what they think some dumb kid will pay.

 

I can build you an apple computer aside from the case for half of what they charge... how do they pump up the prices of there technology by almost 2x? Apple doesnt make half the Sh8t they sell anyway, they just assemble a computer throw an apple on the case and charge as much for it as they can. Apple is trend, nothing more.

 

I'm not a fan of Apple for several reasons but...

 

Something's worth is what someone is willing to pay for it. So, in fact, Apple does charge what their products are worth. What they offer is innovative products that are known for rock solid stability. Unless you're installing an Apple OS the system you build will not be as stable and will probably become infected with malware/spyware. If you choose an linux type OS to avoid the malware/spyware that affects MS products then you run into the issue of program compatibility. For the average user the stability and freedom from malware/spyware is huge!

 

And let's be honest, in a day and age where people will pay $300 for jeans, $500 for a handbag, $1000s for a watch Apples apparel accessories are not that over priced.

I as a small business owner, respectfully disagree. People as a rule, are basically penny-wise and pound foolish. Forget about Apple or jobs going overseas for a moment. It's really about how we spend our money and what that forces others to do. Take this forum for instance, and it's members unwillingness to even begin to understand the difference in overhead of a part-timer "Kitchen Table FFL" and one who is running a real brick & mortar sporting goods business with loads of extra overhead & inventory. It's all over this forum that a transfer costs a whole $50.00 or even more at some stores, plus the NICS check. So el-cheapos would rather mail-order guns to a "Kitchen Table FFL" than support a real local business. Maintaining an inventory for prospective buyers to drool over costs money, and so does everything from healthcare to carpet cleaning. Most of these things a part-timer doesn't have to take into consideration, since being a FFL for some is just a hobby that they make a few bucks at after they finish work that day. Meanwhile, some of the same members here bi**h that stores that sell ammo go out of business, forcing them to mail-order that stuff too! Seems like a never-ending vicious cycle to me! NO offense to anyone here, just one opinion of someone who enjoys going to a local store and will gladly pay a $75.00 transfer fee plus NICS to keep the guy in business. Or just buy stuff from his inventory or via no extra-charge special order, thus avoiding the transfer fee altogether! This IMHO is just ONE example of how our own community fails to see the trees for the forest.

 

I respect your opinion and i do agree with what you have said. However, i was speaking purely in terms of production, not retail. Retail brings a whole new aspect to the issue.

I'm not a fan of Apple for several reasons but...

 

Something's worth is what someone is willing to pay for it. So, in fact, Apple does charge what their products are worth. What they offer is innovative products that are known for rock solid stability. Unless you're installing an Apple OS the system you build will not be as stable and will probably become infected with malware/spyware. If you choose an linux type OS to avoid the malware/spyware that affects MS products then you run into the issue of program compatibility. For the average user the stability and freedom from malware/spyware is huge!

 

And let's be honest, in a day and age where people will pay $300 for jeans, $500 for a handbag, $1000s for a watch Apples apparel accessories are not that over priced.

 

I have owned rock solid PC's my entire life, i have seen apple's crash and burn.... i have seen them over heat and fry them selves, my x gf had a virus on her macbook that well they wound up replacing because it was so f'ed.. this argument is what people try and use to justify the purchase and is nothing more then a false statement. I wouldn't mind owning an apple, i don't think they are any better worse then a PC, they just are not worth the money...

Yes, the age old saying, somethings worth is what some one will pay... and no one who understands computers would buy an Apple under the pretense it's worth the money, unless they needed it for a specific purpose. People buy apple for the name not for its capabilities. Why not offer a computer with a price to match its overall worth, and not what someone is willing to pay? and if people will pay the high price, why not keep the production in the US if they can afford it? My point was that since apple charges so much they could afford to keep production here, but they are more interested in pocketing all that money.

but they are more interested in pocketing all that money.

 

Who would have thought...

Please dont make me laugh... unless your editing audio or video apple offers nothing but a nice over priced apparel accessory. Until it became "cool" to own an apple pruduct there prices were competitive. I'm not talking about whats right or wrong or should they do it... The absolutely do NOT charge what they think there technology is worth, they charge what they think some dumb kid will pay.

 

I can build you an apple computer aside from the case for half of what they charge... how do they pump up the prices of there technology by almost 2x? Apple doesnt make half the Sh8t they sell anyway, they just assemble a computer throw an apple on the case and charge as much for it as they can. Apple is trend, nothing more.

 

Again, right or wrong, the point is.... Apples pockets get fat, while money is leaving the country and your pocket. While apple doubles there money on every product unit they sell. Why not keep the jobs in the country if they are able to charge so much?

I am glad I was able to bring a smile to your face and perhaps a respite from the reality that Apple was,is and from all appearances will remain an innovator in consumer electronics in the near future. The net is full of Apple haters that can build one with spare parts from the local radio Shack and Pep Boys dumpster in a dank basement but that does not take away from the fact that Apple innovated,packaged and marketed a product that has captured the imagination of millions of paying customers. They charge what the market will bear and when such time that the "trend" as you put it diminishes, perhaps we'll see a reasonably priced product with 2 chicks with guns as it's logo. Now that I'm sure would be worth every penny......

I have owned rock solid PC's my entire life, i have seen apple's crash and burn.... i have seen them over heat and fry them selves, my x gf had a virus on her macbook that well they wound up replacing because it was so f'ed.. this argument is what people try and use to justify the purchase and is nothing more then a false statement. I wouldn't mind owning an apple, i dont think they are any better worse then a PC, they just are not worth the money...

If you truly believe a Windoze OS is as stable as an Apple OS then there isn't much reason to debate. However, anecdotal evidence aside, it is a fact that Macs are more stable. I'm in the tech field and I've actually worked at companies who gave their employees a choice between Mac or PC. When it came to help desk they only had to have 1 or 2 guys who knew Macs because they almost never had problems. The other 8 out of 10 guys were all Windoze guys. And it wasn't because the Macs required depot service [ship back to manu] if something when wrong because the Thinkpads were also depot. I've seen this at several companies when I was consulting, thousands of users not just my personal experience.

 

Furthermore, I know tons of guys in the tech field who run Macs. If they absolutely need a program that only runs on Windoze they will run a dual boot or VMware Fusion with a Windows VM.

Yes, the age old saying, somethings worth is what some one will pay... and no one who understands computers would buy an Apple under the pretense it's worth the money. People buy apple for the name not for its capabilities. Why not offer a computer with a price to match its overall worth, and not what someone is willing to pay? and if people will pay the high price, why not keep the production in the US if they can afford it? My point was that since apple charges so much they could afford to keep production here, but they are more interested in pocketing all that money.

It's called "Capitalism".

I am glad I was able to bring a smile to your face and perhaps a respite from the reality that Apple was,is and from all appearances will remain an innovator in consumer electronics in the near future. The net is full of Apple haters that can build one with spare parts from the local radio Shack and Pep Boys dumpster in a dank basement but that does not take away from the fact that Apple innovated,packaged and marketed a product that has captured the imagination of millions of paying customers. They charge what the market will bear and when such time that the "trend" as you put it diminishes, perhaps we'll see a reasonably priced product with 2 chicks with guns as it's logo. Now that I'm sure would be worth every penny......

 

I'm not an apple hater first off, and apple is no innovator of electronics.... They are innovators of apparel design. Give me an example of some sort of electronic device they created? no they dont, they take parts from radio shack and pep boys just like every one else. lol. You can buy the same MOBO and processor the same graphics cards and ram and all the other stuff because apple doesn't actually make these components.

Please dont make me laugh... unless your editing audio or video apple offers nothing but a nice over priced apparel accessory.

 

I am the CTO of a quickly growing financial institution, and we are moving over to macs (mostly 27" iMacs and Airs for mobile workers) because the TCO is much lower than any Windows machine (and Linux is great, but not useful for our desktop requirements). If you run a large and succesful technology organization, you grow quickly tired of the false economies of Microsoft, their terrible licensing policies, and the extra technicians you need to hire to fix windows all the time....

I'm not an apple hater first off, and apple is no innovator of electronics.... They are innovators of apparel design. Give me an example of some sort of electronic device they created? no they dont, they take parts from radio shack and pep boys just like every one else. lol.

You continue to misread my posts in your frenzy of distaste for Apple products.....Innovation in putting together an attractive,user friendly package of consumer products and marketing said product in a manner that consumers not only paid their price but clamor for the next product launch.Innovation...there's that word again... in putting together a smart phone platform that all but created the category. I can't argue the fine points of parts or base technology just the....you guessed it...Innovative way the parts and technology is put together and sold to an eager public.....Sorry if I confused you.

I'm not an apple hater first off, and apple is no innovator of electronics.... They are innovators of apparel design. Give me an example of some sort of electronic device they created? no they dont, they take parts from radio shack and pep boys just like every one else. lol. You can buy the same MOBO and processor the same graphics cards and ram and all the other stuff because apple doesn't actually make these components.

 

Dell doesn't make all of their own components, neither does Gateway, HP, nor Asus. IBM has invented thousands of ground breaking technologies but they didn't invent nor do they manufacture everything that goes into one of their servers, storage arrays, etc.

 

If slapping together some components and making a best selling product was so easy you'd probably be rolling around in a pool filled with cash right now...but instead you're here, online, so I'm guessing we have to give Apple some credit? lol

You continue to misread my posts in your frenzy of distaste for Apple products.....Innovation in putting together an attractive,user friendly package of consumer products and marketing said product in a manner that consumers not only paid their price but clamor for the next product launch.Innovation...there's that word again... in putting together a smart phone platform that all but created the category. I can't argue the fine points of parts or base technology just the....you guessed it...Innovative way the parts and technology is put together and sold to an eager public.....Sorry if I confused you.

I cant argue that people buy them, and that Apple markets their product to a certain persona. And i was quite in disbelief when it came out that apple tracks your phone, the antennae didn't work(and they refused to refund, but gave you a nice snazzy case to make up for it), they threatened people who were jail braking them, like they didn't even own the phone they bought.... and maybe my friends don't treat there personal belongings with the same respect as me.... but i have never seen so many iphones with broken screens. Don't for one second think that apple iphones started the "smartphone" category....

The iphone is actually a good example.... because it IS competitively priced. Your not spending 2x the ammount for something u could otherwise purchase(droid).

Dell doesn't make all of their own components, neither does Gateway, HP, nor Asus. IBM has invented thousands of ground breaking technologies but they didn't invent nor do they manufacture everything that goes into one of their servers, storage arrays, etc.

 

If slapping together some components and making a best selling product was so easy you'd probably be rolling around in a pool filled with cash right now...but instead you're here, online, so I'm guessing we have to give Apple some credit? lol

Actually i do build computers for a hobby and make money doing so... just like anyone can.... it's not even hard to do, i learned back in high school its the matter of plugging in and screwing down some components and clicking a button. I don't buy any name brand computers because it's a sheer waste of money. And we dont run into nearly as many compatibility issues like we used to.

The only time I've had someone complain about stability issues is when they installed a bootleg program.

 

The fact is its so easy to do, too many people out their build there computers or just outright buy a namebrand, there is little to make money wise in between the 2.

Don't for one second think that apple Iphones started the "smartphone" category....

 

Who cares if they started it or not, they certainly dominate it. You are starting to lose me on the direction though. Is this still related to overseas jobs?

I cant argue that people buy them, and that Apple markets their product to a certain persona. And i was quite in disbelief when it came out that apple tracks your phone, the antennae didn't work(and they refused to refund, but gave you a nice snazzy case to make up for it), they threatened people who were jail braking them, like they didn't even own the phone they bought.... Don't for one second think that apple Iphones started the "smartphone" category....

At this point I have no choice but to bow to your superior intellect,excellent comprehension,and laser like insight pertaining to the manufacture and marketing processes in the electronics industry.... I apologize for wasting your valuable time.

Who cares if they started it or not, they certainly dominate it. You are starting to lose me on the direction though. Is this still related to overseas jobs?

 

I added to my above comment.

 

I don't want to side track this anymore then i have already.

I'd imagine that if industry in the US was like it was in the late 1800's into the early 20th century there would still be plenty of jobs in the US. But people complained about the conditions and quality of treatment, and said it was dangerous, and the pay wasn't so good, so more regulations were added until we ended up where cost vs. profit was no longer at a sustainable factor for a successful business. So what do you expect? And that is to ignore some other pretty major factors that the article touched on, and I don't care to mention.

Exactly! Americans have priced ourselves out of the labor market from over regulation & the high costs of doing business. We can NOT sell our labor if we demand wages higher than foreign workers. Of course we never want to see dangerous working conditions come back but we have immense govt over regulation. Paper pushers & top heavy organizations have doomed us. Top heavy = too many managers pushing paper & people around.