Its not cry baby stuff. The difference is we dont cry about regular people, why do they cry about us?

 

Because the percerption is LE considers themselves as "special". Like referring to themselves as other than "civilian". They are civilian period.

 

Eating sand, waiting for a drop of ammo, skivies and socks. That's other than "civilian"

 

I call BS.

Because the percerption is LE considers themselves as "special". Like referring to themselves as other than "civilian". They are civilian period.

 

Eating sand, waiting for a drop of ammo, skivies and socks. That's other than "civilian"

 

I call BS.

 

Maybe some do and some dont. I try and judge people case by case. I grew up on a military base and know alot of d-bag soldiers and PX warriors. They come in all walks of life.

I also knew 2 that gave their life for their country, and they were stand up men.

Its not cry baby stuff. The difference is we dont cry about regular people, why do they cry about us?

 

You do realize that it's disconcerting that the people we pay to protect us, get to have more rights than us. This goes beyond the right to keep and bear arms, but in many other areas as well.

 

So not ONLY do they get the fat pensions, the OT, and the whole "LEOs helping LEOs out of trouble" thing, they get to exercise rights that we peons are not allowed to.

The bottomline in the eyes of the law retired leo or active they are a citizen, they dont have any legal protection over a citizen, if anything they have less because they are supposed to be well trained and held accountable for their actions.

The problem here is we have government officials making decisions and laws based on their personal beliefs and agendas, they dont look at facts and most of the time have little to no knowledge in the area they are effecting.

If we have it so much better then why don't more people take the job. Are they scared, want better pay, what then? People love to talk about how police and firemen have it so much better but yet a lot of people don't take the job. Just more complaining as usual

No, I would still carry because I have a obligation to protect my myself and my family.

 

I would not, however, use my former career as evidence of my right or justification to carry.

 

So then why hate on the guys who agree with your point of view, just because they get to carry?

The bottomline in the eyes of the law retired leo or active they are a citizen, they dont have any legal protection over a citizen, if anything they have less because they are supposed to be well trained and held accountable for their actions.

The problem here is we have government officials making decisions and laws based on their personal beliefs and agendas, they dont look at facts and most of the time have little to no knowledge in the area they are effecting.

 

Well said.

I've got a couple family members in LE and they are good guys who genuinely try to serve and protect. I have no beef with or jealousy of police. I have no desire to do their job and they have none to do mine.

 

That being said, I too am glad this has come up. Why? Because we non LEO citizens in NJ need help and support on 2A issues from the entire LE community. I have yet to see it. Quite to the contrary. How many people have experienced their local police department making the process of legally obtaining a firearm much more difficult than it should be? In many cases the police themselves break the law by making the process take longer, require illegal forms to be filled out and just generally interfere? Is it any wonder that a part of the NJ gun community sees hypocrisy and it enrages them? Maybe it is hard for a LEO to understand what it's like for the rest of us since you are not subject to so many of the rules you enforce. Perhaps this issue will help you to see it from another perspective.

 

You can't let yourself off the hook as a LEO by saying you disagree with NJ's oppressive gun laws and then do nothing to help change the situation. If you've spoken out in support of 2A rights, written letters to politicians and senior LE officials, helped cut the red tape so many experience in legally obtaining a firearm, then you are exactly what we need. Perhaps the terrified citizens of this state would feel less threatened by people legally obtaining and carrying firearms if the LE community would stand up and send a positive message to the public. Maybe politicians who are on the fence would be more inclined to side with 2A rights if they had the backing of the LE community. I have seen precious little evidence of this. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong.

When I took the civil service test in April I think of 2001 there was like 3000 people that took it in the state. I started in Sept 2002 at 23. Last year they had like 30,000 people take the civil service exam. Take the test.

I've got a couple family members in LE and they are good guys who genuinely try to serve and protect. I have no beef with or jealousy of police. I have no desire to do their job and they have none to do mine.

 

That being said, I too am glad this has come up. Why? Because we non LEO citizens in NJ need help and support on 2A issues from the entire LE community. I have yet to see it. Quite to the contrary. How many people have experienced their local police department making the process of legally obtaining a firearm much more difficult than it should be? In many cases the police themselves break the law by making the process take longer, require illegal forms to be filled out and just generally interfere? Is it any wonder that a part of the NJ gun community sees hypocrisy and it enrages them? Maybe it is hard for a LEO to understand what it's like for the rest of us since you are not subject to so many of the rules you enforce. Perhaps this issue will help you to see it from another perspective.

 

You can't let yourself off the hook as a LEO by saying you disagree with NJ's oppressive gun laws and then do nothing to help change the situation. If you've spoken out in support of 2A rights, written letters to politicians and senior LE officials, helped cut the red tape so many experience in legally obtaining a firearm, then you are exactly what we need. Perhaps the terrified citizens of this state would feel less threatened by people legally obtaining and carrying firearms if the LE community would stand up and send a positive message to the public. Maybe politicians who are on the fence would be more inclined to side with 2A rights if they had the backing of the LE community. I have seen precious little evidence of this. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong.

 

 

Alot of LEO's arent gun people. You would be surprised how many actually practice with a weapon let alone care if they can carry it 24/7.

Not like we didn't see this thread going that way it has, and to think we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the State of NJ could just read and understand 27 simple a well constructed words.

When I took the test we had 37000 testers. 11000 passed. All numbers are approximate. Took me 6 years from test to hire. Tested in 2002. Take test. Pass test. Wait for call. Get job that most people **** about to you

 

 

 

Alot of LEO's arent gun people. You would be surprised how many actually practice with a weapon let alone care if they can carry it 24/7.

 

Agreed. A lot of guys figure tour over duty over

If we have it so much better then why don't more people take the job. Are they scared, want better pay, what then? People love to talk about how police and firemen have it so much better but yet a lot of people don't take the job. Just more complaining as usual

When I took the test we had 37000 testers. 11000 passed. All numbers are approximate. Took me 6 years from test to hire. Tested in 2002. Take test. Pass test. Wait for call. Get job that most people **** about to you

 

The arrogance and insecurity here is astonishing.

 

People choose their careers for whatever reason they have. We all appreciate your choice to risk your life to protect and defend ours, but that doesn't make you any better than the people who choose to pursue other paths. Some LEO choose the job because they truly are public servants, and some for less altruistic reasons. The reasons don't matter, The fact remains that there's no defensible argument for allowing RETIRED LEO to continue to carry a handgun under Federal law. If you're worried about your past convictions coming after you after you retire, you chose the wrong job.

 

 

Actually no we are not. Your everyday citizen doesn't have a duty to react to a situation. If I am off duty and see something that constitutes a dangerous or violent crime I must act as if I m on duty. I must confront the situation. Joe citizen cn ignore it or call the police and leave. So no we are not the same in that manner. I still think ccw laws in this state are garbage and me being able to carry all the time does not make me better than you. I just have a different job that requires me to technically act 24/7.

 

Curently on the job I could understand...........

These retired LEOs should be thanked for their service.

 

Retired \Re*tired"\, a.

 

1. Private; secluded; quiet; as, a retired life; a person of retired habits. [1913 Webster]

 

A retired part of the peninsula. --Hawthorne. [1913 Webster]

 

2. Withdrawn from active duty or business; as, a retired officer; a retired physician. [1913 Webster]

 

Being RETIRED Means just that,NO longer doing what you did...CALL 911 Like every other poor bas-ard

Its not cry baby stuff. The difference is we dont cry about regular people, why do they cry about us?

 

This is probably why most of the people on here and other areas do cry about special treatment for cops, because there is no public cry from the cops to give the rights back to the people. You take an oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution and then you can't even be bothered to make a public stink about how the people are treated as subjects and not given their rights. Where's the upholding? Where's the defending? Are you for the people or for your paycheck?

 

I do commend you on stating you believe we should all have equal right, but would you do that in front of a camera or even your chief? We need law enforcement to stand up for us and not hold us down.

If we have it so much better then why don't more people take the job. Are they scared, want better pay, what then? People love to talk about how police and firemen have it so much better but yet a lot of people don't take the job. Just more complaining as usual

 

The waiting list is longer than your arm for LE jobs. Is that because it's NOT a sweet deal?

 

 

 

The arrogance and insecurity here is astonishing.

 

People choose their careers for whatever reason they have. We all appreciate your choice to risk your life to protect and defend ours, but that doesn't make you any better than the people who choose to pursue other paths. Some LEO choose the job because they truly are public servants, and some for less altruistic reasons. The reasons don't matter, The fact remains that there's no defensible argument for allowing RETIRED LEO to continue to carry a handgun under Federal law. If you're worried about your past convictions coming after you after you retire, you chose the wrong job.

 

Last thing I am is arrogant. Couldn't be further from it. You don't know me so I dont not expect you to know anything about me.

 

 

The waiting list is longer than your arm for LE jobs. Is that because it's NOT a sweet deal?

 

Now it's because the economy sucks and police and fire provide stability.

To be honest I think the jump in testers with the civil test is partially due to increase in criminal justice degree advertisements and how they down play how difficult it is to get hired so they get more people to take courses.

I have wanted to get into the field for a long time but haven't been able to start my process yet due to family issues plus the jobs are few and far between in jersey I am better off going to another state.

People dont realize when someone wants to be a police officer or work in this field they should have a drive to want to be involved. Its more of a passion for civil service then just a job, at least for a good cop. The ones that treat it as just a job, probably shouldn't be there and end up hurting the reputations of all the good ones out there.

So then why hate on the guys who agree with your point of view, just because they get to carry?

 

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but I'm not "hating" on any specific individual, either on these forums or otherwise. What I have a problem with is that some group (likely Police unions) spent a good deal of time and money convincing Congress that retired LEO should have certain rights that the rest of us do not get to enjoy.

 

 

To be honest I think the jump in testers with the civil test is partially due to increase in criminal justice degree advertisements and how they down play how difficult it is to get hired so they get more people to take courses.

I have wanted to get into the field for a long time but haven't been able to start my process yet due to family issues plus the jobs are few and far between in jersey I am better off going to another state.

People dont realize when someone wants to be a police officer or work in this field they should have a drive to want to be involved. Its more of a passion for civil service then just a job, at least for a good cop. The ones that treat it as just a job, probably shouldn't be there and end up hurting the reputations of all the good ones out there.

 

I think that CJ is also percieved as an "easy" major, for those in college. I went and got my associates in CJ before I decided there was no way I was going through 2 more years of early high school level work and dealing with 75% of the class being there because Mommy and Daddy said they had to go to college before I decided to go back to engineering. The professors were great, most were active or retired LEOs, and those that weren't were lawyers, but the students just didn't care and many of them had no business taking up a seat. I kid you not, I remember one class sitting next to a group of kids in the program's final course talking about what drugs they were going to buy for the weekend - and all this was happening not 10 feet from the Camden County Police Academy with about 10 officers in the building.

 

That said, 3 more years, I'll have my BS CompE and be carpet bombing my resume and taking the test for every PD I can find hiring north of Virginia and east of Ohio.

To be honest I think the jump in testers with the civil test is partially due to increase in criminal justice degree advertisements and how they down play how difficult it is to get hired so they get more people to take courses.

I have wanted to get into the field for a long time but haven't been able to start my process yet due to family issues plus the jobs are few and far between in jersey I am better off going to another state.

People dont realize when someone wants to be a police officer or work in this field they should have a drive to want to be involved. Its more of a passion for civil service then just a job, at least for a good cop. The ones that treat it as just a job, probably shouldn't be there and end up hurting the reputations of all the good ones out there.

 

Very true

BLF, 6 years to get hired and you think there is a shortage of people willing to take the job? Getting picked up by a PD is damn near akin to hitting the lottery! When I used to be employed doing investigations in the private sector I cant even count the number of test taking, BA's in criminal justice carrying people I had working for me! Out of those many many many highly qualified, highly educated, squared away individuals trying to get into LE I know of 2 that made it! There is no shortage of people willing to take the job IMHO.

Now it's because the economy sucks and police and fire provide stability.

 

Ha! Tell that to the 8 cops in West Orange who got laid off or my wife who with 10 years in at the FD got a lay off notice not to long ago. (Sorry to thread jack a little)

And for reference this was in the 90's and unrelated to current economy.

Sorry...up until last year there was stability.

Now it's because the economy sucks and police and fire provide stability.

 

My point well made. Every time you make a statement you dig a deeper hole. Better give it a rest.

 

You are no different than anybody else and it's a job. Just remember you work FOR the public. Just like sanitation! Just a different function.

BLF, 6 years to get hired and you think there is a shortage of people willing to take the job? Getting picked up by a PD is damn near akin to hitting the lottery! When I used to be employed doing investigations in the private sector I cant even count the number of test taking, BA's in criminal justice carrying people I had working for me! Out of those many many many highly qualified, highly educated, squared away individuals trying to get into LE I know of 2 that made it! There is no shortage of people willing to take the job IMHO.

Even back in the early 80's I had 3 young associates attending John J and they took their tests with in excess of 12k applicants so the premiss that no one wants such a thankless profession even then just does not stand up to the smell test.

You do realize that it's disconcerting that the people we pay to protect us, get to have more rights than us. This goes beyond the right to keep and bear arms, but in many other areas as well.

 

So not ONLY do they get the fat pensions, the OT, and the whole "LEOs helping LEOs out of trouble" thing, they get to exercise rights that we peons are not allowed to.

 

I'm not going to argue you on the point about getting more rights, however take into consideration that in the majority of jobs in the USA, there are common bonds which result in mutual patting on the back. Unfortunately in the LE business, the mutual exchange can be turning your head.

 

As far as the pensions and benefits go, don't hate the LEO or firefighters or whoever. They have a union that negotiated a contract that someone elected agreed on. If you want to blame someone for their benefits, blame the politicians. They could have said no in the contract negotiations!