i. Restriction on number of firearms person may purchase. Only one handgun shall be purchased or delivered on each permit and no more than one handgun shall be purchased within any 30-day period,...

 

I am still getting conflicting answers on this, so I thought it may be a good idea to put it in a poll. Your interpretation of this statute? Brownie points for you if you have any official documents from NJSP!

PK90 put it best...

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/31186-when-allowed-for-next-handgun-purchase/page__p__411586__hl__+leap%20+year__fromsearch__1#entry411586

Best? The correct answer is much simpler: date + 30 days. If you're unsure about date arithmetic:

 

http://www.nr.com/julian.html

 

The answer to this question is 1/31/2012, and is not ambiguous or dependent on days-in-month etc. In any contiguous 30 day period there can only be ONE day you buy a handgun.

 

Of course in order to buy a handgun on your first eligible day your FFL AND NICS must both be open!

As quoted in my PM response to you, see the below. This was in an email sent to dealers. I consider it official. Others may not.

 

Gentlemen/Ladies,

 

1. As you are all no doubt aware, N.I.C.s personnel do not ask a dealer the number of handguns being purchased during a particular transaction.

From this point forward when conducting your check, please advise NICS of transactions involving the sale of more than one handgun. Following this process will eliminate any violations by the dealer of sales of more than one handgun (same transaction).

2. As a reminder, the day of purchase of a handgun is not to be counted as day one of the thirty day period. The easiest rule of thumb to follow is "A day begun is a day done." Adherence to this will eliminate one handgun violations occurring as a result of a sale on the 29th day.

 

2. EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2012, THE THREE DAY GRACE PERIOD ALLOWED BY NICS FOR ANY HANDGUN TRANSACTION BEING ATTEMPTED ON THE 27TH THROUGH 29TH DAY, WITHIN THIRTY DAYS OF ANOTHER HANDGUN TRANSACTION (EXEMPTIONS EXCLUDED) WILL CEASE. ANY BUYER ATTEMPTING TO BUY A HANDGUN WITHIN THAT THREE DAY PERIOD PRIOR TO THIRTY DAYS REQUIRED BY STATUTE WILL BE DENIED.

 

Thanks for you understanding and cooperation.

Should you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

David B. Schlueter

Lieutenant

Firearms Investigation Unit

Applicant Investigation and Compliance Bureau

Special Investigations Section

Investigations Branch

Division of State Police

Department of Law and Public Safety

(609) 882-2000 Extension 2555

Best? The correct answer is much simpler: date + 30 days. If you're unsure about date arithmetic:

 

http://www.nr.com/julian.html

 

The answer to this question is 1/31/2012, and is not ambiguous or dependent on days-in-month etc. In any contiguous 30 day period there can only be ONE day you buy a handgun.

 

Of course in order to buy a handgun on your first eligible day your FFL AND NICS must both be open!

 

Not entirely true. You can buy guns on Sunday if you are doing a face to face transaction. Otherwise yes, you have to wait until NICS and your FFL is open.

I know many FFLs that would not sell a gun on the 31, but would rather insist on the 1st of the next month. As always, it is best to be cautious.

 

 

This is a federal issue and not a state issue, but it illustrates the need for caution. I was just at a local dealer and the BATF had done its annual review of paperwork and someone who had purchased a handgun had missed a question on the form and the dealer had called him and told him that he had to come down and complete the form and initialize the question, or the BATF would be paying him a visit. Even though the dealer had missed this on the paperwork during the sale, the buyer was inevitably responsible. Caution should be exercised, especially in this state and its views that are anti-liberty.

Allow me to put it in simpler terms with rhetorical questions.

 

If a purchase was made on 1/1/2012, would a purchase on 1/2/2012 be within ONE day of the prior purchase? If you say yes, you are now beginning to understand. If you say no, disregard reading any further.

 

If a purchase was made on 1/1/2012, would a purchase on 1/3/2012 be within TWO days of the prior purchase? If you say yes, you are now being educated. If you say no, why are you still reading?

 

Etc, etc., etc.....

 

Now go forward in time. If a purchase was made on 1/1/2012, would a purchase on 1/31/2012 be within THIRTY days of the purchase? Ahha.

 

2. As a reminder, the day of purchase of a handgun is not to be counted as day one of the thirty day period. The easiest rule of thumb to follow is "A day begun is a day done." Adherence to this will eliminate one handgun violations occurring as a result of a sale on the 29th day.

 

Date +30 with a "day begun is a day done" is

 

start on 1/2, add 30 = 1/32 = 2/1.

 

The number of days in the month were set out to make it easier to figure out without counting on your fingers, not that it had anything to do with the number 30.

@ PK90 - As per your example, we can simplify the statue into "one handgun within any one-day period". Please explain then, how 1/1 and 1/2 are both inside a period consisting of exactly one day, when they are two separate days.

 

@ Ian S - "A day begun is a day done." I interpret this to mean that you only start counting the days beginning after your purchase (i.e., the day after is Day 1). When you hit Day 30, you can buy the second pistol - this would be 1/31 if your first was purchased on 1/1. I suspect this rule of thumb was circulated because some were considering the purchase day as Day 1, and thought they could buy the second on Day 30 - which would result in two purchases within the same 30 day period.

Do yourself a favor and stopped speculating. Call (609) 882-2000 ext #6619 on Monday and put it to rest.

No. Day 30 is the last day of the 30 day period. You cannot purchase your second handgun within the 30 day period. You need the 30th day to expire before you're legal to purchase.

The way the law is written and the way the state enforces it seem to be off by one day. The law says one purchase in a 30 day period. If I buy on Jan 1 then on Jan 30 my 30 day period is up. The state wants 30 days between purchases. I've heard guys working in gun stores say that if you are off by a day and try to purchase, in this example, on Jan 31, NICS will deny and they will come after your FID card. Don't know if that's true or not but better safe than sorry. Every NJ FFL I've talked to says 30 days between purchases same as PK90 and IanS.

Your FID card? Possible.

 

I'd be more concerned about them trying to decide whether to charge you with 2C:39-10(1) a. for fraudulent conduct in the retailing of firearms, a crime of the fourth degree, or 2C:39-10(2) g. as a person presenting false information to obtain a handgun within the 30 day period is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

Penalties for a crime of the fourth degree include 18 months imprisonment and up to $10,000 fine.

Penalties for a crime of the third degree include 3-5 years imprisonment and up to $15,000 fine.

 

Really, if this is questionable, call the number PK90 have you above.

What I'm trying to determine is if there is a difference between the way the law is written and the way the state enforces it - and per PK 90 and Ian S, there is. Does anyone else see a problem in that?

 

In any case, I've sent an email to the NJSP FIU and will follow up with a phone call on Monday.

 

P.S. - In reading over the rationale when OGWATDP was being passed, Bryan Miller, Executive Director of Ceasefire NJ, argued "Who needs to buy more than 13 handguns a year?" It is not possible to reach 13 handguns in one year if you must wait a full 30 days between purchases (your 13th handgun would be purchased, at earliest, on 1/7 of the next year).

What I'm trying to determine is if there is a difference between the way the law is written and the way the state enforces it - and per PK 90 and Ian S, there is. Does anyone else see a problem in that?

 

In any case, I've sent an email to the NJSP FIU and will follow up with a phone call on Monday.

 

P.S. - In reading over the rationale when OGWATDP was being passed, Bryan Miller, Executive Director of Ceasefire NJ, argued "Who needs to buy more than 13 handguns a year?" It is not possible to reach 13 handguns in one year if you must wait a full 30 days between purchases (your 13th handgun would be purchased, at earliest, on 1/7 of the next year).

 

It is possible to buy more than 13 hand guns in one year. You can file for an exemption. The form is on the NJSP web site.

Deadeye74 hit the bullseye on that one!

Yeah, the exemptions are possible, but I see Vortex' point. 365 days in a year and 30 day periods should theoretically allow you to make 13 handgun purchases without needing an exemption. Since the count starts on the following day, it doesn't work out the way a number of the OGAM proponents suggested that it would when the legislation was enacted.

 

Still, the answer, when you do the NJ math, is 2/1.

All you have to know is this. If by some reason you are under the 30 day rule by 1 day you will personally get a call from NJSP telling you "this is your 1st and last warning. If you do this again you will be arrested"! This happened to a friend of mine.

All you have to know is this. If by some reason you are under the 30 day rule by 1 day you will personally get a call from NJSP telling you "this is your 1st and last warning. If you do this again you will be arrested"! This happened to a friend of mine.

 

 

... and why even take that chance.

All you have to know is this. If by some reason you are under the 30 day rule by 1 day you will personally get a call from NJSP telling you "this is your 1st and last warning. If you do this again you will be arrested"! This happened to a friend of mine.

 

This is the question you should be asking.

 

It's not a matter of what I think, or what any other member of this board thinks. It's a matter of what will get your a "warning call," and then arressted/prosecuted.

 

As an aside, any info from the NJSP is "official." But, strictly speaking, it still cannot be relied upon. Only judges acting in their capacity as a judge (issuing an opinion deciding a case) and the New Jersey Attorney General's Office can issue interpretations of NJ Statute in order for you to follow it, and then hide behind it from prosecution.

 

So, perhaps we should write to our AG and ask for a formal opinion? LOL

Can the Attorney General or members of his/her staff provide me with legal advice?

 

No. The Attorney General is authorized to provide legal advice only to departments, agencies and instrumentalities of State government. State law restricts the Attorney General from providing legal advice to private citizens or organizations. This is reflected in the state law indicating that the Division of Law in the Attorney General's Office is authorized only to counsel agencies of state government. Per N.J.S.A. 52:17A-4 (e) and 52:17A-11.

All you have to know is this. If by some reason you are under the 30 day rule by 1 day you will personally get a call from NJSP telling you "this is your 1st and last warning. If you do this again you will be arrested"! This happened to a friend of mine.

 

And I heard there are no more warnings.

Can the Attorney General or members of his/her staff provide me with legal advice?

 

No. The Attorney General is authorized to provide legal advice only to departments, agencies and instrumentalities of State government. State law restricts the Attorney General from providing legal advice to private citizens or organizations. This is reflected in the state law indicating that the Division of Law in the Attorney General's Office is authorized only to counsel agencies of state government. Per N.J.S.A. 52:17A-4 (e) and 52:17A-11.

 

http://www.nj.gov/lps/ag-opinions.htm

 

You're right. So, he'll need to issue a formal opinion to the NJSP.

All you have to know is this. If by some reason you are under the 30 day rule by 1 day you will personally get a call from NJSP telling you "this is your 1st and last warning. If you do this again you will be arrested"! This happened to a friend of mine.

 

So ask your friend what vote option he did and theres the answer. Tell him no pressure to remember correctly, just trying to set a legal precedent!

I called the NJSP:FIU today and they (a woman named Janice) confirmed that, given an initial purchase date of the 1st, the earliest purchase date for the next handgun would be the 31st. This is just verbal confirmation though, so to be safe I'm going to wait until I receive email confirmation to put this to the test.

 

My 30th day falls this Saturday, and while I'd much prefer not having to wait till Monday to pick up my next pistol, I don't want to try it until I've gotten something in writing from the NJSP.

Why so much thought over 1 day?

All you have to know is this. If by some reason you are under the 30 day rule by 1 day you will personally get a call from NJSP telling you "this is your 1st and last warning. If you do this again you will be arrested"! This happened to a friend of mine.

 

Wouldn't it be more civil of them to simply deny the purchase? Couldn't gun stores have a sign similar to ones they have in liquor stores saying, "You cannot buy liquor if you were born after... date"? They could say something like, "You are not eligible to purchase a handgun if your last purchase was after... date."

 

Also, as others have noted, there is a one day difference between, "One handgun in a 30 day period," meaning you could purchase one on the 30th day after your last purchase (counting the next day as Day One); and "30 days between purchases," which would force you to have to wait another day. The language of the law is the former, but it seems that the way it's enforced is the latter.

 

BTW, what does it say about the absurdity of this law, that we're still discussing it?

One day does add up if you plan on buying 12-13 handguns a year, especially when you consider days of the week and throw Sunday (no NICS) into the mix.

 

Say you make your first purchase on a Monday. If you follow the 30 full days between (30DB) method, your next buy would be a Thursday, then a Sunday - but wait, no NICS on Sunday! So you would be bumped to a Monday. This pattern of Monday/Thursday would continue throughout the year.

 

If you follow the within 30 days (W30D) method, if your first purchase was on Monday, the next would be Wednesday, then a Friday, and then you would hit Sunday, bumping you back to Monday again.

 

When you plan it out and do the math, this means that by your 13th handgun purchase, you take possession of this pistol a full two weeks earlier if you use the W30D method vs. the 30DB method.

 

Example (Start Day Monday, 1/1/07):

 

30DB Method

 

1. Monday 1/1

2. Thursday 2/1

3. Sunday 3/4 (Skip), Monday 3/5

4. Thursday 4/5

5. Sunday 5/6 (Skip), Monday 5/7

6. Thursday 6/7

7. Sunday 7/8 (Skip), Monday 7/9

8. Thursday 8/9

9. Sunday 9/9 (Skip), Monday 9/10

10. Thursday 10/11

11. Sunday 11/11 (Skip), Monday 11/12

12. Thursday 12/13

13. Sunday 1/13 (Skip), Monday 1/14

 

W30D Method

 

1. Monday 1/1

2. Wednesday 1/31

3. Friday 3/2

4. Sunday 4/1 (Skip), Monday 4/2

5. Wednesday 5/2

6. Friday 6/1

7. Sunday 7/1 (Skip), Monday 7/2

8. Wednesday 8/1

9. Friday - 8/31

10. Sunday 9/30 (Skip), Monday 10/1

11. Wednesday 10/31

12. Friday 11/30

13. Sunday 12/30 (Skip), Monday 12/31

 

Days Saved

 

1. 0

2. 1

3. 3

4. 3

5. 5

6. 6

7. 7

8. 8

9. 10

10. 10

11. 12

12. 13

13. 14

 

Above schedule does not account for potential holidays that may fall on purchase days.

 

I also did a calc for the ideal "start day" of the year for 30DB (a Wednesday) and W30D (a Tuesday) to maximize the days before hitting the Sunday skip, but it only shaved off two and one days respectively from the last pistol purchase date.

Thank you for taking your time to do that, BUT, one can acquire a handgun on Sundays and Holidays, just not from a dealer.

One day does add up if you plan on buying 12-13 handguns a year, especially when you consider days of the week and throw Sunday (no NICS) into the mix.

 

Say you make your first purchase on a Monday. If you follow the 30 full days between (30DB) method, your next buy would be a Thursday, then a Sunday - but wait, no NICS on Sunday! So you would be bumped to a Monday. This pattern of Monday/Thursday would continue throughout the year.

 

If you follow the within 30 days (W30D) method, if your first purchase was on Monday, the next would be Wednesday, then a Friday, and then you would hit Sunday, bumping you back to Monday again.

 

When you plan it out and do the math, this means that by your 13th handgun purchase, you take possession of this pistol a full two weeks earlier if you use the W30D method vs. the 30DB method.

 

Example (Start Day Monday, 1/1/07):

 

30DB Method

 

1. Monday 1/1

2. Thursday 2/1

3. Sunday 3/4 (Skip), Monday 3/5

4. Thursday 4/5

5. Sunday 5/6 (Skip), Monday 5/7

6. Thursday 6/7

7. Sunday 7/8 (Skip), Monday 7/9

8. Thursday 8/9

9. Sunday 9/9 (Skip), Monday 9/10

10. Thursday 10/11

11. Sunday 11/11 (Skip), Monday 11/12

12. Thursday 12/13

13. Sunday 1/13 (Skip), Monday 1/14

 

W30D Method

 

1. Monday 1/1

2. Wednesday 1/31

3. Friday 3/2

4. Sunday 4/1 (Skip), Monday 4/2

5. Wednesday 5/2

6. Friday 6/1

7. Sunday 7/1 (Skip), Monday 7/2

8. Wednesday 8/1

9. Friday - 8/31

10. Sunday 9/30 (Skip), Monday 10/1

11. Wednesday 10/31

12. Friday 11/30

13. Sunday 12/30 (Skip), Monday 12/31

 

Days Saved

 

1. 0

2. 1

3. 3

4. 3

5. 5

6. 6

7. 7

8. 8

9. 10

10. 10

11. 12

12. 13

13. 14

 

Above schedule does not account for potential holidays that may fall on purchase days.

 

I also did a calc for the ideal "start day" of the year for 30DB (a Wednesday) and W30D (a Tuesday) to maximize the days before hitting the Sunday skip, but it only shaved off two and one days respectively from the last pistol purchase date.

 

 

Although I have no intentions of checking for accuracy, the fact that you've spent the time to perform the calculation is what has me concerned. Is it really that big of a deal or are you just troubled by the entire point of the mess? If it the latter, I understand, since I'm a person of principle myself. I just can't believe this thread has grown so much over the answer to what was a simple question. I guess that shows the confusion that everyone talks about.