New thread, "When is a transfer is not a transfer"

I can go down to a car dealership and sit in a car, they don't ask for a driver's license. No one would consider that they transferred the car to me because I sat in it.

 

The law says that you can't temporary transfer to someone that you believe would be denied for a FID should they apply for one. If the gun store doesn't know me, they have to assume I'm good to go. There is no reason to have to assume the worst about me.

 

You don't need a license to purchase a car, only to operate it on public roads. And there aren't any criminal statutes dictating who , when, and where you are permitted to sit in cars. Last I checked , even prior convicted murders without a DL license are not prohibited from sitting in cars.

If the store owner doesn't know you, then the FID is a good first step to establishing credibility.

 

What do they do outside NJ?

I thinks it's a good idea they ask for fid, a gun is not a toy, I show the the store respect and show them my fid without them even asking, and I think most appreciate that.

You don't need a license to purchase a car, only to operate it on public roads. And there aren't any criminal statutes dictating who , when, and where you are permitted to sit in cars. Last I checked , even prior convicted murders without a DL license are not prohibited from sitting in cars.

 

In NJ true, however, I bought a truck in Ohio back in 2000 and was told by the dealer that Ohio requires the buyer to have a valid DL. I thought this was odd and asked him what if I was from another country and was buying it to export out of the country and it would be towed to the port. His response was that you could put a pile of cash on his desk, but without a license, you're not going to buy any vehicle in Ohio. And we think NJ has all the dumb laws.

You don't need a license to purchase a car, only to operate it on public roads. And there aren't any criminal statutes dictating who , when, and where you are permitted to sit in cars. Last I checked , even prior convicted murders without a DL license are not prohibited from sitting in cars.

 

is there a law in NJ that says you need a license to hold a gun?

What do they do outside NJ?

 

In Kentucky, all you have to do is ask to see the firearm and they let you look at it.

In Kentucky, all you have to do is ask to see the firearm and they let you look at it.

Same in VA and TX. I was at a flea market--YES, a FLEA MARKET!-- in VA recently and the guy told me that to purchase I only needed a valid VA DL.

Several tables had firearms, and magazines spread out on open-air tables. Would be great if we could do that at Englishtown or Columbus!

 

As for NJ, I have been asked only for FID at stores (not always), never for P2P. Ranges never seem to ask though.

In Kentucky, all you have to do is ask to see the firearm and they let you look at it.

 

I can believe that! Kentucky is the biggest gun happy state, did you ever see their NICS numbers compared to the rest of the states???? Just amazing...

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/state-totals_1998-2010

In Kentucky, all you have to do is ask to see the firearm and they let you look at it.

 

Some states in the Free America also have guns stilling right out there for person to touch, I mean right out there on the showroom floor,,, Imagine that...

Some states in the Free America also have guns stilling right out there for person to touch, I mean right out there on the showroom floor,,, Imagine that...

 

Ammo too. OMG!!!! So scary

Ammo too. OMG!!!! So scary

 

Yup, and even JHP right next to FMJ...

Yup, and even JHP right next to FMJ...

 

Oh hell no, those scary heat seeking, cop killing bullets need to be banned.

 

Every time I go to order bullets for reloading I want to get the hollow points because they are more accurate. Then I realize I am in NJ and some idiot, ignorant to the law cop will throw me in jail because he doesn't know the laws.

is there a law in NJ that says you need a license to hold a gun?

 

Yes and No. In exempted locations you do not. Long guns outside of exempted locations you do (FID). HG's outside of exempted locations you do (carry permit).

 

There are also a slew of laws around how you came to hold the gun, as in how did you receive it in the first place, even in exempted possession locations. For long guns, you need an FID and COE to be filled out, for HG's Pistol Purchase Permit, bring them with you when you first move to NJ, or you can inherit them.

 

You must receive the gun before the actual act of possession can take place. There are different statutes for each of these, including temporary transfer exemptions as well as permanent transfers.

 

There are some locations where temporary xfers are OK , such as firing ranges and training classes. AFAIK, giving a gun to anyone to "take a look at" constitutes a form of temporary transfer. That is you are giving it to them, they are receiving it, but not in a permanent fashion (in which a COE or PP would need to be used).

 

I don't buy that handing someone a gun to "check out" is not a form of temporary transfer. That would mean that someone, like a dealer could hand a convicted prior felon/prohibited person a HG to "check out", and it would be legal because it is not really a form of temporary transfer, thus outside of the law.

I can believe that! Kentucky is the biggest gun happy state, did you ever see their NICS numbers compared to the rest of the states???? Just amazing...

http://www.fbi.gov/a...otals_1998-2010

 

Those NICS numbers are distorted for Kentucky. The KY State Police does monthly NICS checks on ALL conceal carry holders.

 

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?98740-Ky-number-one-5-years-running

 

 

http://www.wkbkradio.com/pages/11912736.php?contentType=4&contentId=9706270

 

 

"Kentucky, which ranks 26th nationally in terms of population, topped the state rankings for pre-purchase background checks in 2011, the FBI said.

 

Gun sellers in the Bluegrass State, which has just 4.3 million residents, generated almost 2.3 million instant background checks in 2011 - accounting for roughly one of every seven the FBI processed during the year.

 

But Fischer said Kentucky's numbers were distorted because the state runs a fresh background check every month on gun owners with state-issued concealed weapons permits. "

But Fischer said Kentucky's numbers were distorted because the state runs a fresh background check every month on gun owners with state-issued concealed weapons permits. "

 

Wow, that explains alot... didn't know... but talk about big brother baby sitting...

Seems to be alot reference here to policy, not law. They specifically stated that is was against the law in NJ and wanted to know what stores allowed me to handle the guns without an FID, and then said that they are breaking the law. As far as using the FID to establish credibility? Sure, but how about being honest and stating that it is store "policy" and not "the law" in order to establish credibility with the customer...

It's not a law. The store does not what to be bothered with you because if you do not have a FID or a PPP they don't have a sale. It is their way of qualifying you.It's the wrong way but their way.

Scig

Wow, that explains alot... didn't know... but talk about big brother baby sitting...

 

I'm not sure what other states are doing (automatic behind the scenes) monthly checks of NICS of those with carry permits. I bought this issue up with others in the Kentucky forum and they don't seem to have an issue with it. I think it is big brother watching. While it is true that the carry permit (which I do not have yet) lets one bypass NICS and only the 4473 is required, there should be no reason for a monthly check. I mean whats next? A weekly check? When does it stop?

 

Yes I know we at least get to conceal carry (with a permit) , no argument there. Unlike some other states , we have mandatory training and testing and that runs $80....once one passes the training and gets the certificate ( 2 weeks) ...It is only then can one apply and from there it takes upward to 8 weeks and that is another $60 plus costs for photos. Other states take much less time, some cost less and some do not have a training requirement and do not run monthly NICS checks on its permit holders.

I know of at least one gun store in NJ that will not let you in the door without an FPID.

 

It's America, they're free to set their own rules, I'm free to go somewhere else. Frankly I don't have a problem showing my FPID to a gun store where that document is REQUIRED to buy nearly anything there.

Yeah I am new to the game here. It was such a pain in the butt to get the FID that I take it out to get coffee at wawa! LOL all jokes aside, I have no problem showing it. It was a pain in the balls to get and even though I shouldn't have to go through the process because of my constitutional right, I am proud that I have it and will show it automatically in any place that it may be required.

Same in VA and TX. I was at a flea market--YES, a FLEA MARKET!-- in VA recently and the guy told me that to purchase I only needed a valid VA DL.

Several tables had firearms, and magazines spread out on open-air tables. Would be great if we could do that at Englishtown or Columbus!

 

As for NJ, I have been asked only for FID at stores (not always), never for P2P. Ranges never seem to ask though.

 

 

Just because it was at a flea market, don't consider it legal. As I've mentioned before, at our local flea markets in NJ, they always have a stand selling bongs, clips, crack pipes and other drug related crap. None of that is legal in NJ.

at our local flea markets in NJ, they always have a stand selling bongs, clips, crack pipes and other drug related crap. None of that is legal in NJ.

 

This is interesting, and I am wondering if the old "head shop" laws have expired or been repealed? Near me, on Rt 22 there are now two "smoking accessories" shops, one on Rt22E in Scotch Plains and the other on Rt22W in the Greenbrook/N Plainfield area. They specialize in hookas, waterpipes, etc. How are they not "head shops" and are they now legal again?

I can't imagine they're legal, because if you get caught with any on that stuff in your car or in your person, you get arrested for drug paraphernalia, don't you?

 

 

In Kentucky America, all you have to do is ask to see the firearm and they let you look at it.

 

My point was, outside NJ and a few other states, there are no permits to buy guns in America.

 

So when I see gun enthusiasts stating that it's a good idea to see somebody's permit before letting them look at a gun in a shop I want to barf. I should need to see your permit to let you look at knives at Bed Bath and Beyond.

 

That being said, I do know undesirables show up at gun shops and ranges. And if you are under a NAZI rule that requires papers to buy steak knives, then making the guy show his NAZI Party affiliation or get out is sort of like making lemonade when you have been given lemons.

Just because it was at a flea market, don't consider it legal. As I've mentioned before, at our local flea markets in NJ, they always have a stand selling ... crap. None of that is legal in NJ.

Do not know about the other stuff, but the guns and ammo are perfectly legal for sale at flea markets in VA. As long as one posseses a valid VA DL (or anny adjacent state except for MD and DC)

There were several tables with guns and 100 round magazines. We had a serious discussion about moving to Virginia after that!

 

Just because it was at a flea market, don't consider it legal. As I've mentioned before, at our local flea markets in NJ, they always have a stand selling bongs, clips, crack pipes and other drug related crap. None of that is legal in NJ.

 

Selling guns at a flea market or yard sale or parking lot or pool hall or bathroom or wedding or anywhere is legal in most states in the country. Some states, such as PA, have crappy restrictions on handgun transfers, but not long guns or NFA.

 

It's nothing special to Virginia. Virginia doesn't really have good gun laws. I'd consider them a little below average. Not a deal breaker, but certainly not to be praised.

I can believe that! Kentucky is the biggest gun happy state, did you ever see their NICS numbers compared to the rest of the states???? Just amazing...

http://www.fbi.gov/a...otals_1998-2010

These numbers are skewed because Kentucky does a monthly NICS checks on all its concealed carry permit holders. If you look at the monthly numbers you'll see they increase slightly from month to month.

I was at a reputable store that sponsors NJGF, and they had asked to see my FID which I expected and did not mind. He said he felt bad but it was policy 'in case NJSP walks in and sees you holding a Nagant"

NJ is not alone with the FID system, Illinois and Massachusetts have these and I believe Puerto Rico and Hawaii do too. NY State is actually worse than NJ when it comes to owning a pistol. While it is true that some counties in NY State, you might be able to get a carry permit...you cannot own a pistol unless you have a permit.

 

Unlike NJ and some other states, if you moved from elsewhere you cannot bring in any pistol until you get a permit. If you lived in another state, you must get the pistol permit. Then (as I understand it) any pistols that you might have owned has to go through an FFL.

 

Long guns are no problem, though someone said one county upstate has long gun registration. And in this post I am not even talking about New York City which is even much worse.

 

That means if you move from NJ to NY State, you must get a permit first (which seems to take six months these days...one person had to wait 13 months) which includes the background check, letters of reference, mental check, and if all goes well...you go in front of a judge.

 

Once you have the permit and then you can get a pistol, if you want to add another pistol the process is one pistol at a time, this is done by the county, and in some counties the process for that is taking 12 weeks. In some counties in NY, there is a 5 handgun limit before you are visited by the police and have to prove to them that you have a safe. Once they come in look at the safe only then you can obtain more pistols.

 

If you think I am making this up, please read the threads at nyfirearms. The gun rights (or the lack of them) are sometimes worse in other states in some cases.

 

http://www.nyfirearm...pistol-permits/