March 11, 201214 yr This isn't a trick question or a gotcha. It is my P30 with the action open and a range flag inserted all the way through the mag well.
March 11, 201214 yr Mark, since I know the answer as per certain a-holes, I will not weigh in. IMO they'd give you a problem if you had taken the damn slide off the gun. I really should post a photo of what they complained about on my gun too, idiots. There are times when "safety" is actually more dangerous. For instance, table saw guards, those "guards" are just a nightmare and have caused more problems than they have prevented. We're a society of weenies who believe that no one should have to think for themselves.
March 11, 201214 yr I would say the RO at Cherry Ridge complained because the flag needs to be inserted into the barrel VIA the breech. Not saying your wrong, but I have seen/heard the RO's yell at people for stuff like this. It's just the way they do it, and want it done. Don't take it personal
March 11, 201214 yr Don't take it personal Why not? Is common sense so uncommon that we ignore idiocy now??
March 11, 201214 yr Why not? Is common sense so uncommon that we ignore idiocy now?? Because when you joined Cherry Ridge range they told you this is how they want it done. Simple enough.
March 11, 201214 yr Author Is the chamber of a firearm not created by the breech face and the rear of the barrel when the breech is closed upon the barrel?
March 11, 201214 yr Because when you joined Cherry Ridge range they told you this is how they want it done. Simple enough. Well with that logic, we will never overturn FPIDs, OGAM, or NJ's outright ban on CCW. But yeah, I see your point.
March 11, 201214 yr Is the chamber of a firearm not created by the breech face and the rear of the barrel when the breech is closed upon the barrel? Yes, but flagging the pistol this way leaves the uncertainty of a live round being in the chamber/barrel. Chances are nothing bad will happen even with a live round in the chamber, but having no live round in the chamber is the preferred method.
March 11, 201214 yr I am sooo glad I don't have to deal with that nonsense, except during rifle matches
March 11, 201214 yr Is gun. Is not safe. There could still be a round in the chamber, and through some course of magical events you could experience the world's longest hangfire, or have the slide stop break at the exact moment someone is downrange and have the slide slam a burr on the chamber flag into the primer causing it to ignite, and, and .... !! Yeah, it's safe.
March 11, 201214 yr Author Next time, I think I'll have a firearm there with the barrel out of it and ask him how I can put a flag in a chamber of a gun with no chamber. Yes, this will piss him off. I'm pissed off already, he should be as well. I think I'm pretty much done with this range. I live 2 miles away and now it's too crowded and I get treated like a teenager who didn't make his bed. I'm fed up with it.
March 11, 201214 yr Next time, I think I'll have a firearm there with the barrel out of it and ask him how I can put a flag in a chamber of a gun with no chamber. Yes, this will piss him off. I'm pissed off already, he should be as well. I think I'm pretty much done with this range. I live 2 miles away and now it's too crowded and I get treated like a teenager who didn't make his bed. I'm fed up with it. Yeah, It is a much nicer time on random weekdays.
March 11, 201214 yr I think if you don't like the rules at the playground you go to.. you should pick up your toys and find somewhere else to play.... I think the gun is totally safe.. BUT I will offer this.. the only issue with this being your condition safe is this.. at some classes I have been to... they want the gun TOTALLY empty not because the gun might randomly hang fire.. but instead because when it is time to shoot again.. they want people picking up unloaded guns.. meaning if you left a round in the chamber.. picked up the gun and dropped the slide.. the gun is now ready to fire.. if you are a noob.. you might make a huge mistake.. with the gun totally empty.. it is empty till you are ready to fire... sometimes dumb rules are made for dumb people.. but when we choose to play with dumb people.. we have to follow those dumb rules.. dont take it to heart.. just follow the rules or move on.. IMO..
March 11, 201214 yr It's been about 10 months to a year since I last went to CR. This last visit confirmed for me WHY it's been 10 months. I'll drive the 30 minutes extra to go to the hole in the wall where I can do what I like, where I don't have to wait a half hour for a guy in a "special hat and coat" to call a cease fire, and where I can shoot at stuff other than paper. Last time I was there we still called our own cease fires. Guess all of a sudden we're no longer "responsible" enough to do that. I won't even go into the issues regarding youth "orientation". My kid is 100% more safe than half of the people that were on that line yesterday but because of some arbitrary 147 year old FUDD, who believes in age discrimination, she couldn't shoot. Yeah, Ok, rulez, got it. Moving on, taking my green ball of C-A-S-H and going to play elsewhere. Buh Bye.
March 11, 201214 yr I've been to CR 100's of times, and never had a RO check my bench close enough to say anything about a situation like this; what's the deal with that?
March 11, 201214 yr Author I've been to CR 100's of times, and never had a RO check my bench close enough to say anything about a situation like this; what's the deal with that? I've been a member for 5 years now, and Steve, the RO has never complained to me about flagging my pistols this way. I only have two of those bendy flags that can go in the chamber. Every time I went to buy more they only has the long stiff ones but it's been well over a year since I last checked. I didn't see it as that big of a deal. Even if there is a round in the chamber, the breech cannot be closed. I suppose an idiot could get a hang fire and ignore it, but unless you purposefully load a round into the chamber, the act of opening the action removes any cartridge that might be in the chamber. Last year I went to a range near my Mom's house in Ohio. You have to sign in at the gate. I did so with my P30 on my hip and talked to the RO for a few minutes. He didn't freak out and yell at me to only uncase my firearm on the table. If i did that at CR, I'd be ordered off the property. The range is every bit as good and probably better than Cherry ridge and it's got a walk around archery course and skeet. It costs $24/year. So yeah, I'll probably be taking my toys elsewhere. shrug.
March 11, 201214 yr Yeah, it's safe. Most rules at CR are in place because someone did something stupid, and they had to put a rule to stop it. First came the noob and then came the rule.
March 11, 201214 yr Author Mark calm down your kinda. overreacting ..IMO....I was out Friday .... AR cleared and empty no magazine bolt open ... I'd dindn ttake my bag to the gun.... No trauma....to called out to me....OK got it...all good....more than nice... Sometimes we allow emotion to control more than out brains....reminds me of alternate blood flow and a girl named Gina ... BTW I would consider that weapons safe This is not the first time he's said something to me for BS. Once he made me put my target frame behind the yellow line because I had leaned it up against my bench to put targets on it. I guess he figured someone would see it and start shooting at it. I guess I just need to go. It's like being on the bunny slope. I've been shooting my entire life and it's _insulting_ but I get it. They set the rules, like it or hit the bricks. Well, I'll follow the yellow brick road.
March 11, 201214 yr I agree with the statement if you dont play by their rules, go somewhere else. With seeing this I certainly would go somewhere else. I understand they have their rules to cover their asses in regards to their insurance co. and to limit liability and such, and no one can win an argument over being "too safe" so i will enter my opinion knowing full well I cannot win the argument in a perfect world where cars dont get into accidents, and people are always alerted by working smoke detectors. You would think to even flag a gun in either fashion would be safe enough to put down in a range setting. In requiring this you are taking away part of ability to practice safe handling of a firearm, The saying train as you play comes to mind where of you are going to practice (shooting range for i.e.). Again.. this is a losing argument because arguing to be less safe never works in any environment. And you would have every right to pick up your toys and go elsewhere. I think your method was safe and disabled the firearm from any N.D's and would if their policy bothers you I would consider a range a little less stringent.
March 11, 201214 yr Out of curiosity... did he tell you to put the flag in the chamber and leave it at that? or did he make a big deal out of it and talk down to you?
March 11, 201214 yr Author Out of curiosity... did he tell you to put the flag in the chamber and leave it at that? or did he make a big deal out of it and talk down to you? Made me change it, "This firearm isn't safe, put the flag in the chamber, that's why it's called a chamber flag". In his "do it now you stupid newbie tone". I just shook my head and moved it. Without the breech closed, the chamber isn't complete, so my argument is that the flag is already in the chamber. You could put a round in the chamber release the slide, and pound on the slide with a hammer while pulling the trigger, that gun will not fire.
March 11, 201214 yr I voted "safe" and have had an arguement with an Ahole RO at CR about this. This guy was an "acting" RO who said he was on the board and a member of the "Safety Committee" He made some BS arguement about a cook off! Edit: I originally posted befor I read all. Mark- Chill... Just look at the obsticles the RO has to overcome. My **** is putting plastic in a hot chamber.
March 11, 201214 yr the act of opening the action removes any cartridge that might be in the chamber. while I understand that.. rules are not always made to cover normal circumstances.. they are in many instances "catch all" procedures used to (in this case) address all types of users.. firearms.. etc..
March 11, 201214 yr In his "do it now you stupid newbie tone". This is the part I have a problem with - "the tone". He's "technically" right about the "chamber" thing... but, there's no reason to be a d0uchenozzle about it. Oh well.. par for the course, I guess.
March 11, 201214 yr The problem here is that the condition is safe; to you. And it is if you have done everything to ensure a round is not in the chamber. But, without even reading all the other comments, I knew this was Cherry Ridge before perusing down to read all the comments. In their eyes, this is a chamber flag, and should be inserted in the chamber. It's not.
March 11, 201214 yr BTW - I exersise the alternate rule and close the case on the pistol. Yeah, well I tried that and got yelled at because my pelican case was on the ground in front of the table instead of up on the (rickety as all getout, and spinning around like a merry-go-round) table top. It was NOT a good day at CR.
March 11, 201214 yr Not to mention - if we're dealing with a "cook off" and I put the "about to be cooked off pistol" in ANY pistol case, the bullet's gonna go freakin flying right through the case but THAT's considered safe.
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