I've always claimed and still believe that under-aged children have very limited or no rights within the realm of their family as it relates to Mother, Father and Child. However, I believe that outside the family circle, certain rights are guaranteed (or at least should be) to under-aged children. What's your opinion? Since this was done outside the realm of her parents and family, was this child's rights violated?

 

 

http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/13/10657012-up-against-the-wall-should-district-be-allowed-to-demand-middle-schoolers-facebook-password

Yes, assuming there was no parental consent. That sounds like a he said/she said now though with the school claiming it got permission. In a Jack Bauer, ticking bomb scenario, the action might have been justified. This doesn't qualify.

Of course they were and all I did was read the title. Schools should not be allowed to overstep their boundries. While their intentions are good, they need to find a better way to achieve their goal.

Yes.

 

+1

I wish the school would worry about teaching kids instead of worrying about BS in social media. This was not a threat to anyone's life. I will shortly be educating my kids about their rights and what to disclose and not to disclose to any "authorities".

 

"I'd like my lawyer NOW."

I agree but a 12 year old shouldn't have Facebook. You're supposed to be 18 to register.

It's stories like this that make me think about home-schooling my son. I hate the way school districts invade a students private life. If her parents consented, they're stupid; it sounds like this isn't the case and the school really overstepped their bounds. I'll be curious to see how far this case goes and what the ruling is.

My son is goig to learn to call is before he speaks to anyone in school. I'm going to make sure all the officals know me, my wife, our son and that they will not speak to our son without one of us present.

Epic fail all around.

 

If the following is true

The school district doesn't dispute that it obtained the girl's password, but does say it had parental permission.

 

No privacy violation, but police with a Taser?

 

WTF

 

Parents hows about a little talk with the kid about the internet and how

"Private" it is.

 

School officials punishing a child for saying she doesn't like a monitor.

WTF

 

yes, too bad we do not have the monitors name we could have at it...LOL...

I agree but a 12 year old shouldn't have Facebook. You're supposed to be 18 to register.

 

Agree and my 12 yr old doesn't have Facebook though some "Facebook friends" have accounts for their 6yr olds...

The school district doesn't dispute that it obtained the girl's password, but does say it had parental permission.

 

Epic fail all around.

 

If the following is true

 

 

No privacy violation, but police with a Taser?

 

WTF

 

Parents hows about a little talk with the kid about the internet and how

"Private" it is.

 

School officials punishing a child for saying she doesn't like a monitor.

WTF

 

The parent should not be able to give permission for a school to pry out her password, that is her personnel page. I am thinking the parents gave permission to talk to her about the situation....

The "it takes a village" mentality at work here.

if they did not have the parent's permission to make her give over her password , then it is a serious violation and is infuriating.

 

Why her password anyway ? They could easily get a screen shot other ways. If someone felt the need to bring this post to school authority's attention , let that person give them access to THEIR account then.

 

I would be at that school in a heartbeat and nobody would be glad to see me. Then I would kill my 12 year old's account( well she would not have had one at age 12 anyway ) . They are not old enough for widespread socializing at age 12 . Sh/*t I was not allowed out of a 1 mile area without a guardian to socialize at that age .

Not surprised. Things like this happen on all sorts of levels, why not this? If you start off using authority to coerse and get things out of middle school students, it will only be easier to do the same as they get older. I mean, why wouldn't you want to make it easier to get people to give up their constitutional rights?

 

Do schools even teach The Constitution anymore?

 

It is pretty simple to do anyways. When you teach that you should always just be compliant with authority figures, because that is 'in your best interest' or 'will just make things easier for you', and get kids and people to actually believe this, it allows and enables things like this to happen. Land of the free though, right?

Tinker says basically:

 

"conduct by the student, in class or out of it, which for any reason - whether it stems from time, place, or type of behavior - materially disrupts classwork or involves substantial disorder or invasion of the rights of others is, of course, not immunized by the constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech."

 

The issue leading to the event in question was theoretically her talk of sex with a peer, and then a parent complained. If it is causing a disrpution in the school, they have the right to tell her not to say it and to enforce it with punishment. I'm not so sure about the search. Operating in loco parentis, the school can offer up consent to police to search a student's belongings, I'm unaware of that extending to the student's person, but that may be because the issue fell off my radar a while ago. However, unless they offer up facebook access via school equipment or can prove that the kid was accessing it from school, I would see it as fairly hard to create situation analogous to the search your bag type of rulings that doesn't wind up with the school on the losing end of the precedence. It's not like the school can search your bedroom, but they can search your bag or locker. Facebook strikes me as being much more like the bedroom than the locker.

I would check with the HIB laws before coming to a conclusion. If it falls under a HIB instance, then yes, the school has a right to investigate her FB page if it was where the HIB took place. Otherwise, total BS.

 

If it's ok for them to do this, then it would be OK for them to have e-mail accounts and i just find that absurd, and i cant believe they think this is OK. Student's do have a right to privacy, and school has no right to violate that privacy unless it is a matter of law. As a teacher i would tell my students not to give anyone your password to anything. Period. If they are legally allowed to obtain a password, then let them do it the legal way, by subpena.

Tinker says basically:

 

"conduct by the student, in class or out of it, which for any reason - whether it stems from time, place, or type of behavior - materially disrupts classwork or involves substantial disorder or invasion of the rights of others is, of course, not immunized by the constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech."

 

The issue leading to the event in question was theoretically her talk of sex with a peer, and then a parent complained. If it is causing a disrpution in the school, they have the right to tell her not to say it and to enforce it with punishment. I'm not so sure about the search. Operating in loco parentis, the school can offer up consent to police to search a student's belongings, I'm unaware of that extending to the student's person, but that may be because the issue fell off my radar a while ago. However, unless they offer up facebook access via school equipment or can prove that the kid was accessing it from school, I would see it as fairly hard to create situation analogous to the search your bag type of rulings that doesn't wind up with the school on the losing end of the precedence. It's not like the school can search your bedroom, but they can search your bag or locker. Facebook strikes me as being much more like the bedroom than the locker.

 

Yes, but a parent complaining is SH8t. A teacher complaining is legit. If kids are disruptive in class over the FB page, then OK. But a parent making a stink over it means nothing in respect to what is going on in the classroom. And in fact the parent is the one creating the disruption, and whom should be removed from the school. Some of these school systems are turning into prison systems.

I would check with the HIB laws before coming to a conclusion. If it falls under a HIB instance, then yes, the school has a right to investigate her FB page if it was where the HIB took place. Otherwise, total BS.

 

 

I'm confused. So you believe it is BS, but if there is a law that says it was legal then all of a sudden it is not? You can sugar coat BS, but it is still BS.

I'm confused. So you believe it is BS, but if there is a law that says it was legal then all of a sudden it is not? You can sugar coat BS, but it is still BS.

Harassment, intimidation and bullying. If a student is doing either of these 3 things to another student or to the school in general using FB, then yes it becomes a legal matter. Otherwise the school has no right or privileges to a students privacy. if they have a legit reason to access her page, which effects other students in the school in a manner which they feel unsafe to attend, then to me it is ok. Having an angry parent complain solely about another student's comments which effect no students negatively is a non-issue and the school has no business in the matter. You dont get to complain **** and moan to a school that a kid is a bad apple and a bad influence then expect them to do something about it, that to me is BS, and we're not here to raise kids.

 

Does that clear up some confusion?

Sort of. I get that, to an extent, but how does that relate to getting her password to her account? If there was harassment/bullying going on, it would be visible and no need to get the password, or do these teachers/counselors/police have no idea how computers and the internet work?

 

There are ways of going about things, and handling issues, and coercing someone to give up personal information with intimidation through presence of authority is NOT that way.

Sort of. I get that, to an extent, but how does that relate to getting her password to her account? If there was harassment/bullying going on, it would be visible and no need to get the password, or do these teachers/counselors/police have no idea how computers and the internet work?

 

There are ways of going about things, and handling issues, and coercing someone to give up personal information with intimidation through presence of authority is NOT that way.

teachers and school personnel would not be in charge of it, although in one of those cases they could ask for permission to access her page, or rely on some sort of screen shot that was given to them. We have to document the case and decide to which level we escalate or not. Do we get the police involved? is it even necessary? Were not computer hackers, nor do we find the time to exploit Facebook security flaws. In the event, it would be passed on to the municipality, where they would conduct the investigation, but the school is allowed to conduct an investigation of it's own, and they only have a short period of time to file the case. there isnt really a reason to get the police involved unless it is absolutely necessary, if the school cannot determine what to do because of lack of information, then a full case will probably ensue through the police department.

I believe an instance like this COMPLETELY requires parental consent. If it is not distributed by the school system and is "owned" and or monitored by the parent they have no reasonable right to shake down a child for their password. Unless there is an imminent criminal aspect and need for it would I expect nothing less then consent from a parent. Let my kids school explain to me they were told my child was talking about inappropriate material in school and my response to them would be I will handle my child when they get home (no physical violence of course). This to me would go along the lines of perusing through a child's cell phone in school. If the school has a no phone policy, and he or she is caught having it.. it will go in your drawer and I will come get it. You start looking through my kids phone for "incriminating content" I will use that same phone to call a lawyer to pursue the end of your career.

 

I hate to sound confrontational. In fact my daughters are two and I have no experience of the child in a school system, but when it comes to the expectation of the rights of my own or my child's privacy, you better damn well clear it with me before you go rummaging through their things. Of course there is always the exception of if it is a police matter and the cop is within his/her rights to search my child under their duty of law...but get into trouble? not my child.....lol

The parent should not be able to give permission for a school to pry out her password, that is her personnel page. I am thinking the parents gave permission to talk to her about the situation....

 

I read the statement as "Parents gave permission to read the page" not "Parents give permission to interrogate child"

 

If the password was needed then it's the parents job to get it from the child not the school, not the cops.

 

Like I said this whole episode is an epic fail on all parties involved.

I saw this on the News today and it made me sick. I feel the 12 year old girl was bullied by the school and the L/E. They shoould never talk to a child without a parent, and it should be up to that parent to call a lawyer.

...

 

I agree and that certainly makes sense. Unfortunately that isn't what happened, and hence it being a problem.

 

 

I read the statement as "Parents gave permission to read the page" not "Parents give permission to interrogate child"

 

If the password was needed then it's the parents job to get it from the child not the school, not the cops.

 

Like I said this whole episode is an epic fail on all parties involved.

I saw this on the News today and it made me sick. I feel the 12 year old girl was bullied by the school and the L/E. They shoould never talk to a child without a parent, and its should be up to that parent to call a lawyer.

 

^^ ^^

Agreed.

Something to keep in mind perhaps. If they had a real legal right to do what they did, one would think it would be incumbent upon Facebook to give them access, and they wouldn't need the password then either.

I believe an instance like this COMPLETELY requires parental consent. If it is not distributed by the school system and is "owned" and or monitored by the parent they have no reasonable right to shake down a child for their password. Unless there is an imminent criminal aspect and need for it would I expect nothing less then consent from a parent. Let my kids school explain to me they were told my child was talking about inappropriate material in school and my response to them would be I will handle my child when they get home (no physical violence of course). This to me would go along the lines of perusing through a child's cell phone in school. If the school has a no phone policy, and he or she is caught having it.. it will go in your drawer and I will come get it. You start looking through my kids phone for "incriminating content" I will use that same phone to call a lawyer to pursue the end of your career.

 

I hate to sound confrontational. In fact my daughters are two and I have no experience of the child in a school system, but when it comes to the expectation of the rights of my own or my child's privacy, you better damn well clear it with me before you go rummaging through their things. Of course there is always the exception of if it is a police matter and the cop is within his/her rights to search my child under their duty of law...but get into trouble? not my child.....lol

 

Actually the schools have MUCH more leeway than the police when it comes to searches on school property..Teachers or administrators can search your kid's locker, bag or effects at will pretty much and there isnt a damned thing you can do about it. IM Bound by the 4th ammendment the school isnt. (and before the BS starts, look up "NJ State Vs T. L. O.")

Actually the schools have MUCH more leeway than the police when it comes to searches on school property..Teachers or administrators can search your kid's locker, bag or effects at will pretty much and there isnt a damned thing you can do about it. IM Bound by the 4th ammendment the school isnt. (and before the BS starts, look up "NJ State Vs T. L. O.")

 

The locker is property owned by the school district... that is understandable. Searching a backpack im not too concerned with given adequate cause.. and when i say adequate I mean more then "we heard you were selling candy in school for profit" Drugs or gambling would again fall into a legal police matter but anything beyond those stipulations i take issue with. After the first sign of bs on their part I would demand council with them via phone before they take action. Some of the things they do are ridiculous.

 

in TLO the defendant was caught smoking (a punishable offense for minors in todays age). The kid gave them reason for search. Hearsay to me is NOT an acceptable reason to search and does not constitute as probable cause.

The locker is property owned by the school district... that is understandable. Searching a backpack im not too concerned with given adequate cause.. and when i say adequate I mean more then "we heard you were selling candy in school for profit" Drugs or gambling would again fall into a legal police matter but anything beyond those stipulations i take issue with. After the first sign of bs on their part I would demand council with them via phone before they take action. Some of the things they do are ridiculous.

 

in TLO the defendant was caught smoking (a punishable offense for minors in todays age). The kid gave them reason for search. Hearsay to me is NOT an acceptable reason to search and does not constitute as probable cause.

 

The School doesnt NEED Probable cause..you can take issue with it all you want, but the schools operate under different rules, and when your child is in their care, they can do an awful lot under the guise of Loco Parentis. As far as THIS case..if it HAD been anything actually criminal there wouldnt have been a need for the password, there are other means to access facebook..sounds like the SRO should have stayed the hell out of it. He may have just gotten himself and his agency a nice lawsuit.