One of the better discussions on the topic I've run across:

 

No matter how many people see this or anything else, they'll still be those who think anything less then .45 is just a waste.

 

You can't enlighten those who don't wish to be enlightened.

Yup, that's a good discussion on the topic.

500 S&W > ALL

 

duh.

10mm!

50BMG and call it a day!!!

Thanks Pete. I guess your a big fan of this guy.

I judge calibers by how much I enjoy shooting them and how well I shoot them.

Sometimes it's nice to just have fun and break out of the "defensive" mindset

so to speak.

You can throw the caliber (and gun debate) out the window as most deaths with pistols are usually with junk guns in mini calibers and in cheap ammo.

Nice video, but no details of .45 wound ballistics that I could see. And the image of the wound channels was on & off the screen too fast for my liking.

 

The presenter was sort of "fair" as he did say that heavier bullets penetrated better.

 

So I guess we should all be looking at double-stack .45's which would give us the best of both worlds!

 

Keep in mind that this entire controversey started when the 9mm ran outta steam and couldn't get the job done back in '86 in Miami FBI murder case. Jeff Cooper stated back then that a .30-.30 rifle could have ended the fight and saved several lives. Wonder if they ever learned, and are now carrying .30 cal rifles, just like back in the Bonnie & Clyde days. What's old is new again (and rediscovered)!

Nice video, but no details of .45 wound ballistics that I could see. And the image of the wound channels was on & off the screen too fast for my liking.

 

The presenter was sort of "fair" as he did say that heavier bullets penetrated better.

 

So I guess we should all be looking at double-stack .45's which would give us the best of both worlds!

 

Keep in mind that this entire controversey started when the 9mm ran outta steam and couldn't get the job done back in '86 in Miami FBI murder case. Jeff Cooper stated back then that a .30-.30 rifle could have ended the fight and saved several lives. Wonder if they ever learned, and are now carrying .30 cal rifles, just like back in the Bonnie & Clyde days. What's old is new again (and rediscovered)!

 

I'm guessing your not a 9mm fan Dave. NICE!

There is more to this than wound ballistics or magazine capacity, and it requires us to make an honest assesment of our shooting ability. Nobody would disagree that 3 rounds of .45 to the chest will be more effective than 3 rounds of 9mm even if the amount of difference is hard to predict.

 

But what about 3 rounds of 9mm to the chest in 1 second, compared to 3 rounds of .45 in 2 or 3 seconds? Or even 1 .45 to the chest, 1 to the arm and 1 miss?

 

I'm honest enough about my shooting ability to admit that I am much more likey to make hits quickly and accurately with the 9mm. End of decision for me.

... And the image of the wound channels was on & off the screen too fast for my liking.

...

 

Here ya go:

 

Guys, the answer is obviously .357 magnum.

I understand this particular debate has been contentious for awhile and as a newer shooter with friends on both sides of the coin I would like to offer a neophytes view.

I like 9mm and own 2 pistols in that caliber,I like .40's size and snappy retort,I love .38 and .357 and own a HD revolver for it's ease of operation and maintenance......However after firing a basic 1911 in .45 recently I would have to say I would have to choose .45 as a round I would be confident is neutralizing a threat quickly and efficiently with my limited experience.

Now I'm not sure how much of my opinion is actually based on the gun as opposed to the round but at this juncture, if in a SHTF situation I was offered a 9.mm with 15/17 rounds and a .45 with 7/10 rounds, I would choose the latter.

I must stress that this opinion is based on nothing more than a seat of the pants feeling and limited exposure to the venerable .45 round.

Here ya go:

 

 

I understand this particular debate has been contentious for awhile and as a newer shooter with friends on both sides of sides of the coin I would like to offer a neophytes view.

I like 9mm and own 2 pistols in that caliber,I like .40's size and snappy retort,I love .38 and .357 and own a HD revolver for it's ease of operation and maintenance......However after firing a basic 1911 in .45 recently I would have to say I would have to choose .45 as a round I would be confident is neutralizing a threat quickly and efficiently with my limited experience.

Now I'm not sure how much of my opinion is actually based on the gun as opposed to the round but at this juncture, if in a SHTF situation I was offered a 9.mm with 15/17 rounds and a .45 with 7/10 rounds, I would choose the latter.

I must stress that this opinion is based on nothing more than a seat of the pants feeling and limited exposure to the venerable .45 round.

 

Duppie, I think before you make an assesment like that you should shoot some formal timed drills and see the results. For 90% of shooters there will be a significant increase in accuracy and speed with the 9mm. The best thing you can do as a new shooter is get yourself into a class like the MDTS Combat Pistol 1/2 over here: http://njgunforums.c...ge__pid__447714

AR's are better than AK's.

Caliber debates are almost as entertaining as devout/atheist and motorcycle helmet debates. Hold on while I get my comfy chair....

It was possibly the big heavy feel of that 1911 that you fell in love with and not the round itself.

 

I don't mind .45 personally, and I like it a hell of a lot more then .40 I just don't think having a hole with a radius only 1mm greater (about the thickness of a penny) then 9mm is worth the loss of capicity and increase in ammo cost.

Duppie, I think before you make an assesment like that you should shoot some formal timed drills and see the results. I think for 90% of shooters there will be a significant increase in accuracy and speed with the 9mm.

I am well aware of the stats and the effect of training, but If you noticed I based my opinion purely on the ability of the round to instill confidence in a new shooter. Isn't confidence a major part of being able to either survive or perish in a tense situation?

You of course is looking at it from a purely analytical viewpoint and I'm sure all the facts support you..but stats don't always save your life.

Im just saying maybe it was the gun and not the round. ever shot a 1911 in anything else?

It was possibly the big heavy feel of that 1911 that you fell in love with and not the round itself.

 

I don't mind .45 personally, and I like it a hell of a lot more then .40 I just don't think having a hole with a radius only 1mm greater (about the thickness of a penny) then 9mm is worth the loss of capicity and increase in ammo cost.

I own a CZ75 which pretty much mirrors or even surpasses a 1911 in weight with a full mag so I'm inclined to believe that weight was not a factor in my opinion.

ok just throwing it out there.

 

Good taste BTW, cz75 is one of my all time favorites.

I keep a musket chambered in .563 at the bedside... Even if I miss the intruder it will make him think twice on coming any closer ; )

or you can use the smoke screen to escape!

I am well aware of the stats and the effect of training, but If you noticed I based my opinion purely on the ability of the round to instill confidence in a new shooter. Isn't confidence a major part of being able to either survive or perish in a tense situation?

You of course is looking at it from a purely analytical viewpoint and I'm sure all the facts support you..but stats don't always save your life.

 

Yeah, I'm a pretty analytical guy and not everyone has the same approach. If the psychological effect you get from a .45 really helps your performance in a fight, then rock on with whatever works.

Yeah, I'm a pretty analytical guy and not everyone has the same approach. If the psychological effect you get from a .45 really helps your performance in a fight, then rock on with whatever works.

Thank you for allowing me that. Am I going out and purchase a .45?, eventually but there a slew of handguns on my list in a bunch of calibers but right now I'll concentrate on enjoying shooting the 2k of 9mm I have in the house.

lol ninja vanish!

For 90% of shooters there will be a significant increase in accuracy and speed with the 9mm.

 

This has always been my opinion. All calipers can kill. A well placed shot (or two) is more important then the caliper.