I stopped at Rayco to grab some ammo since I didn't have time to go anywhere else. I asked for a few boxes of Federal 36gr CPHP, as they work very well in my M&P and are fairly clean for a 22. His response was "hollowpoints are illegal in NJ".

 

When I told him that HP are not illegal, just restricted, he became very condescending since I "apparently know all the laws."

 

I'm sorry, but I don't need to be talked at like a child, especially when I'm right. And with all the restrictive and confusing laws in NJ we don't need any more misinformation, especially from people who should know better.

 

In the future I think ill be taking my business to another local shop, probably pk90.

Good job not starting a fight, and letting the rest of us know places we can avoid.

 

+1

If we wanted to mess with them we could go there and inquire about "black rifles"

or worst AK variants,,,LOL

Thanks for the heads up.

hmmm.... not defending them, but I have never found them to be anything but knowledgable and helpful. Next time there I will make same request and post their response.

I stopped at Rayco to grab some ammo since I didn't have time to go anywhere else. I asked for a few boxes of Federal 36gr CPHP, as they work very well in my M&P and are fairly clean for a 22. His response was "hollowpoints are illegal in NJ".

 

When I told him that HP are not illegal, just restricted, he became very condescending since I "apparently know all the laws."

 

I'm sorry, but I don't need to be talked at like a child, especially when I'm right. And with all the restrictive and confusing laws in NJ we don't need any more misinformation, especially from people who should know better.

 

In the future I think ill be taking my business to another local shop, probably pk90.

 

 

So let me get this straight... you are going to bash a localy and american owned gun store who does not want to deal with the hasle of selling hollow point ammunition to the general public becuase of the controversy in this really messed up state? The guys that run that shop know the laws and are upright and decent people. The store itself has reasonable prices and carries reputable brands. I myself frequent the store but do not have the need to purchase ammunition as it is provided to me for my training purposes.

 

All I am trying to say is don't bash a business because you got your panties in a bunch because they would'nt sell you a restricted item. They are great people and offer a great service to this community.

 

-respectfully,

drifter

Drifter, there is NO LAW against the sale/purchase and use of hollowpoint ammunition at the range. If the guy THAT WORKS IN THE INDUSTRY didnt know that AND took a tude, he is well deserving of the negative review. Its people like this that greatly perpetuate the myth and muddy the waters for everyone.

 

Think about how many customers may have been told that and now believe it to be true.

That being true it is best judgement as a business owner not to sell that item but only to LE because lets face it HP's are designed to do damage... why waste HPs on paper? Let alone why would a store owner want to take the liability of selling HPs to a civilian and share the blame if the customer used said HPs in a non self defense situation and was to be prosecuted for using them on another person? There are many reasons why I would not sell HPs to civilians. Just my 2 cents.

 

God forbid someone uses FMJ on a piece of paper or metal target.

 

Addition - to self defense use... I would suggest frangabile ammo vs hollowpoints in my opinion.

But because HPs are legal, and the superior choice to FMJ's in a self defense situation, how is that not an important market in respects to 2A. Your logic holds just as much water as the gun that they would sell to a person who would later use it for illegal purposes. Bringing up the fact that an employee makes a statement that is completely false in his trade makes me reconsider if I would do business with them. When I purchase a gun, ammo, accessories I would like guidance from knowledgeable, polite salesperson. If the likelihood of me being misinformed or lied to is increased, you would bet I would go elsewhere.

Lets solve this really easily. I suggest you go down to the store take a look around and talk to them and form your own opinion about them and their store / services. We can talk about the different variables all day long, but when it comes down to it I belive they are upright and front with their practices.

Drifter do u work for them?? New account, only post ice made here....

drifter, thats like saying the dealership is responsibe for selling the car to someone that ran someone over with it. I have no problem if a business makes a concious decision to sell or not sell an item. But politely state the choice. Dont represent fiction as fact or demean someone for choosing to not be a sheep.

"Addition - to self defense use... I would suggest frangabile ammo vs hollowpoints in my opinion."

 

Based on what do you make such a recomendation?

Oh man!!! Where the hell is the -1? :wild:

IBTL

That being true it is best judgement as a business owner not to sell that item but only to LE because lets face it HP's are designed to do damage... why waste HPs on paper? Let alone why would a store owner want to take the liability of selling HPs to a civilian and share the blame if the customer used said HPs in a non self defense situation and was to be prosecuted for using them on another person? There are many reasons why I would not sell HPs to civilians. Just my 2 cents.

 

God forbid someone uses FMJ on a piece of paper or metal target.

 

Addition - to self defense use... I would suggest frangabile ammo vs hollowpoints in my opinion.

 

Contrary to many of my posts I will not be nasty.... HP's are preferred on steel and prevent some richocets.

 

Please respond in and adversarial fashion so I may unleash my venom.

So let me get this straight... you are going to bash a localy and american owned gun store who does not want to deal with the hasle of selling hollow point ammunition to the general public becuase of the controversy in this really messed up state? The guys that run that shop know the laws and are upright and decent people. The store itself has reasonable prices and carries reputable brands. I myself frequent the store but do not have the need to purchase ammunition as it is provided to me for my training purposes.

 

All I am trying to say is don't bash a business because you got your panties in a bunch because they would'nt sell you a restricted item. They are great people and offer a great service to this community.

 

-respectfully,

drifter

 

I am going to "bash a locally and American owned gun store" because there are other locally and American owned gun stores that are more than willing to sell me what I want and do it without giving me an attitude. One of our vendors can correct me if I am wrong, but AFAIK, there is no more "hassle" involved with the sale of hollowpoints than there is with the sale of any handgun ammunition.

 

I have no issue with a business decided they will not sell hollowpoints, non-kosher foods, or fluffy kittens for whatever reason they want. Had he said "I'm sorry we don't sell hollowpoints," this thread would not exist. However he said "We don't sell hollowpoints because they are illegal." Which is incorrect.

 

That being true it is best judgement as a business owner not to sell that item but only to LE because lets face it HP's are designed to do damage... why waste HPs on paper? Let alone why would a store owner want to take the liability of selling HPs to a civilian and share the blame if the customer used said HPs in a non self defense situation and was to be prosecuted for using them on another person? There are many reasons why I would not sell HPs to civilians. Just my 2 cents.

 

God forbid someone uses FMJ on a piece of paper or metal target.

 

Addition - to self defense use... I would suggest frangabile ammo vs hollowpoints in my opinion.

 

Lets face it, guns were designed to do damage. At least as far as I'm aware, those 9mm FMJ rounds aren't cotton balls, and I don't want to be shot with one. The military has been using standard ball ammo since they have existed, and they have no problems killing people. Using your logic nobody should own guns, because someone might use it to hurt another person and the gun shop/manufacturer will get sued.

 

Prosecuted for using HP on a person? There is no law saying that HP are illegal to use against a person. Either its a good shoot or its not.

The OP is talking about .22lr ammo here, right? I know, hollow points are hollow points, but................

 

If a local gun store told someone that they would not sell rubber bands because they were illegal, and we all know they were not illegal, would we be be so fast to stand up for them. Sure they can set policy to sell, or not to sell, whatever they want, but don't call something illegal when it is not.

OK so i call troll on drifter. i am also going to assume he is a LEO and if he is, he is very ignorant.

That being true it is best judgement as a business owner not to sell that item but only to LE because lets face it HP's are designed to do damage... why waste HPs on paper? Let alone why would a store owner want to take the liability of selling HPs to a civilian and share the blame if the customer used said HPs in a non self defense situation and was to be prosecuted for using them on another person? There are many reasons why I would not sell HPs to civilians. Just my 2 cents.

 

God forbid someone uses FMJ on a piece of paper or metal target.

 

Addition - to self defense use... I would suggest frangabile ammo vs hollowpoints in my opinion.

 

I love it when LEO's and i myself am going through academy in a few weeks so i am not bashing at all because that is my future career, i love it when LEO's consider themselves better than civilians. if it is good enough for a LEO than it is good enough for a civilian period. so that statement is silly and ignorant. If the business is giving out false information and then gets nasty while they are lieng/ misinforming you than they do not deserve business becasue why should someone get paid for doing their job wrong?

That being true it is best judgement as a business owner not to sell that item but only to LE because lets face it HP's are designed to do damage... why waste HPs on paper? Let alone why would a store owner want to take the liability of selling HPs to a civilian and share the blame if the customer used said HPs in a non self defense situation and was to be prosecuted for using them on another person? There are many reasons why I would not sell HPs to civilians. Just my 2 cents.

 

God forbid someone uses FMJ on a piece of paper or metal target.

 

Addition - to self defense use... I would suggest frangabile ammo vs hollowpoints in my opinion.

 

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: When 1 isn't enough..

The first mistake is buying ammo in NJ to begin with...

I've heard mostly good stuff about Rayco. I want to stop in there sometime actually. Perhaps they could have used a different tone, but I imagine it was less ignorance of the law, and more a factor of not wanting to deal with the hassle that is HP ammo. Technically, no, it is not illegal, but since it's tacked on to other crimes (IE Speeding) and essentially illegal in everything but name, it's likely easier just to not stock it and give that answer. I won't buy HP ammo just because I figure it's more trouble than it's worth, not to mention if someone buys HP there, and gets into one of those trumped up charges (IE "Assault" levergun, capable of 17 rounds of ammo) or something like that, the media will be sure to mention the "evil HP ammo bought at local Rayco". Since they've already had one crazy lady trying to shut them down, I figure they feel it's in their best interest just to not deal with HP ammo.

 

I know at my job, selling Christian gifts, I'll tell people that there isn't a real demand for Tracks, or some other things when asked. I do this not because I'm trying to lie to them, but because it's easier than explaining how it's a pain to stock something like that due to how varied they are, how much space they take up, etc. I really don't think that they meant to be disrespectful, or anything, they're just trying to avoid headaches for themselves.

The OP is talking about .22lr ammo here, right? I know, hollow points are hollow points, but................

 

Yes, we are talking about .22lr hollow points. I wasn't buying them because they were hollow points, I was buying them because they

a) WORK

b) copper plated/washed

c) clean (for a 22 anyway).

 

I wanted to buy Federal 36gr CPHP, load #745. Instead I took what he had, Federal 40gr LRN, load #710. I will not be buying that particular ammo in the future. I shot 500 rounds of it tonight, it is almost as dirty as Remington Golden Bullets, and just about as reliable. At least 2 rounds per box did not cycle the slide completely, I had 5 stovepipes and 1 empty get stuck between the ejector and the breech face, how that happened I have no idea.

 

Oh, did I mention they were dirty? With the ammo I wanted, there is almost no smoke. With the ammo he had, there is a nice cloud after you fire 12 rounds.

Its an additional crime for guns too, so maybe thats too much trouble as well

<--- Not LEO... read my ranges.... and you'll get the picture of my line of work. I dont really care to respond to all of the posts but no I do not work for RayCo as far as I know its only the two owners that work there.

 

You were talking about .22 HPs... come on man train as you fight... well would protect your house. I use .45, 357sig and 9mm HPs and Frang ammo in my line of work.

 

Btw you do realize you are nitpicking the most cheaply produced ammo in the world right??

 

If you cant afford to the gas dont buy an SUV.

<--- Not LEO... read my ranges.... and you'll get the picture of my line of work. I dont really care to respond to all of the posts but no I do not work for RayCo as far as I know its only the two owners that work there.

 

You were talking about .22 HPs... come on man train as you fight... well would protect your house. I use .45, 357sig and 9mm HPs and Frang ammo in my line of work.

 

Btw you do realize you are nitpicking the most cheaply produced ammo in the world right??

 

If you cant afford to the gas dont buy an SUV.

 

Your stay here could be short, so I'll say good-bye now. BYE

<--- Not LEO... read my ranges.... and you'll get the picture of my line of work. I dont really care to respond to all of the posts but no I do not work for RayCo as far as I know its only the two owners that work there.

 

You were talking about .22 HPs... come on man train as you fight... well would protect your house. I use .45, 357sig and 9mm HPs and Frang ammo in my line of work.

 

Btw you do realize you are nitpicking the most cheaply produced ammo in the world right??

 

If you cant afford to the gas dont buy an SUV.

No offense i do respect our military and thank them for their service however you do understand that you are on the internet, you are coming off as a troll, and you can make yourself look like or be whatever you want on the internet i meen hey my home range is the moon amrs and venus and occasionaly uranus. If you are a vet ty for ur service however without proof of some sort you could be another kid at his computer on a dating sight pretending to be a hot girl.

your arguement is moot aout the fact that train as you fight cause right now i fight paper and steel and hey i can use a rubberband and defeat paper, but that is not the point. the point is Rayco is spreading false information and in their line of work they should know the laws. and if you are in the military why are you only using pistol caliber rounds, also our military does not use 9mm hp ammo soooo more doubts right there.

<--- Not LEO... read my ranges.... and you'll get the picture of my line of work. I dont really care to respond to all of the posts but no I do not work for RayCo as far as I know its only the two owners that work there.

 

You were talking about .22 HPs... come on man train as you fight... well would protect your house. I use .45, 357sig and 9mm HPs and Frang ammo in my line of work.

 

Btw you do realize you are nitpicking the most cheaply produced ammo in the world right??

 

If you cant afford to the gas dont buy an SUV.

 

There are a number of things I could and wish to say to you. However, in interests of being the more mature person, I will restrain myself.

 

If you read my posts, I was not asking for that ammo because they were HP, I was asking for it because it is ammo that I know works well in my gun and it just happens to be hollowpoint.

 

Train as I fight? Really? I am 22 and on track for a career in Engineering. It is highly probable that I will never fire a shot in anger in my entire life. Contrary to whatever awesome tactical military/LEO/security training you have, a 22 is a good tool for practicing the fundamentals of shooting. Whether you're shooting 22lr, 9mm, .40, or .45 out of an M&P your stance, grip, breath control, trigger pull, and sight picture are the same.

 

I'm not allowed to "nitpick" my ammo because it's cheap?

 

Ammo A and ammo B are roughly the same cost per round. 500 rounds of ammo A leaves the front 1/3 of the slide covered in powder residue, has bits of lead poking out of the barrel, turns the top inch of the magazine black, and consistently has FTF and/or FTE. 500 rounds of ammo B leaves only the very front of the slide slightly blackened from powder residue, has no lead in the muzzle, leaves the top of the magazine relatively clean, and feeds, fires, and extracts very reliably.

 

Am I not allowed to choose ammo B over ammo A simply because "they're both cheap?"

 

Either way, I don't care if you respond. I'm done with this discussion. I had a bad experience at Rayco and I will not be returning for the foreseeable future. If you think they're the best thing since sliced bread, good for you.