Hi Everybody,

 

As i have explained in another post, i am fairly new to firearms. I have my FID and own a 12 gauge that i use for trap-shooting and home defense. In any event, i have a couple other firearms that i am interested in. Some of them are handguns. I know all about the permit process and how you need to apply for a separate permit for each handgun. That being said, my question isn't really about HOW to purchase a handgun. My question revolves around WHAT applying for a pistol permit is like.

 

My experience with the FID card process wasn't so bad. I went into the police station, explained that I went trap shooting with a co-worker, was interested in purchasing my own shotgun for these purposes, filled out the paperwork, and got fingerprinted. Within a couple of months, i received a call from the police station that let me know I could go in and pick up my card. Oh, there was a slight hickup. I had a couple run-ins when i was underage. I think one was for underage drinking and another was a misdemeanor. He asked me about those while on the phone. I explained that i was 15 years old and have obviously since changed. That was that.

 

Now, I am a little concerned about acquiring a permit for a pistol. First of all, it is obviously extremely aggravating that you need to present yourself to the police station EACH AND EVERY TIME you want to buy another firearm. Some of you guys have, i would assume, over a dozen pistols. I guess I'm rambling at this point so i'll list my questions below!

• Some of you have dozens of handguns. Do the police ever look at you suspiciously after going in for your second, third, fourth, etc pistol permit?
  
• What has your experience been with acquiring a pistol permit versus the regular long gun FID card?
  
• If you qualify for an FID, would they be able to reject you for a pistol permit?
  
• If you said that your reason for acquiring an FID was for target shooting and hunting, what did you list as your reason for acquiring a pistol permit?
  
• Do you feel awkward going in for a pistol permit right after receiving your FID?
  

Thanks in advance for the answers!!!!!!!!!!

 

Best,

 

Michael

The process for handgun permits is the same as it was for your FID.

 

Handgun permits are good for 90 days from date of issue so you can apply for multiple permits at a time but can only use one every 30 days. Most PDs will issue a 90 day extention on unused permits though.

 

You don't need to list a reason for wanting the permits on the application.

• Some of you have dozens of handguns. Do the police ever look at you suspiciously after going in for your second, third, fourth, etc pistol permit?
  
• No, don't really care if they do. It's a right not a privilege. I also apply for multiple permits at a time.
  
• What has your experience been with acquiring a pistol permit versus the regular long gun FID card?
  
• It's the exact same process and forms - only difference is the box you check at the top of the form and the cost - $2 ea for permits to purchase. Actually easier once you have been fingerprinted (yes, it counts from your FPID card) - now you just fill out a SP-212A (available only at your PD) and pay $18 instead of being fingerprinted.
  
• If you qualify for an FID, would they be able to reject you for a pistol permit?
  
• No, unless something happened to disqualify you in the intervening time
  
• If you said that your reason for acquiring an FID was for target shooting and hunting, what did you list as your reason for acquiring a pistol permit?
  
• Where does it ask for a reason? If your PD has a document, other than the STS-033, SP-066 and SP-212A in their process, it is illegal
  
• Do you feel awkward going in for a pistol permit right after receiving your FID?
  
• Actually the NJSP recommends you get a P2P at the same time so as to avoid going through all this hassle a second time. You have been drinking the NJ Kool-Aide waaaaay too long.
  

Thanks in advance for the answers!!!!!!!!!!

 

Best,

 

Michael

I've never gotten "the look", so don't worry about it, just go ahead and apply for up to 6 at a time! I've even told some of the guys in the Dept. that I'm a Collector and Target Shooter, and if I wanted to knock-off a bank, I could already do it, and not to worry cause I only have two hands, lol! They scratch their heads and then figure that since I didn't do anything wrong with the first 12, I probably won't do anything wrong with the next 12, so they don't take as long as when I first applied. It's a trust issue IMHO, and they'd rather spend their time checking-out the guy or gal that doesn't have any firearms instead of wasting time checking-out someone who has a proven track record. That's why some feel it's important to make sure you buy something at least every couple of years, so that you "stay in the system". This of course isn't written anywhere, and varies from town to town.....

 

I put down Target Shooting, which was what I wrote on my original application decades ago.

 

Some towns take longer for a pistol permit---it depends upon how long you wait in-between purchases. See above.

 

My town twists your arm to go for both at the same time, so they only have to do it once. Your mileage may vary......

 

 

 

Pizza Bob.. thanks for answering. I feel you on all of this. I guess the fact that New Jersey has created this type of environment, combined with the fact that I have a natural aversion to Police, has caused my apprehension. To answer your question about the Police Department having another document... Yes, they do. The additional document asks why you are looking to purchase a firearm, whether you have had formal training, etc.

 

Thanks for the answers though man. I really found your responses quite amusing. You sir, are a patriot!

• Some of you have dozens of handguns. Do the police ever look at you suspiciously after going in for your second, third, fourth, etc pistol permit? We ( my husband and I ) are on our 4th round of permits , I believe. No looks ..but I do get the Clint Eastwood whistle sometimes. Hazard of everyone knowing everybody in a small town I guess..but it is humorous , not suspicion or judgmental . Plus , I am not looking for "a look" since as Pizza Bob said it is a right not a privilege . If I did get any looks ,I would just ignore the looks and be polite and confident..head high
  
• What has your experience been with acquiring a pistol permit versus the regular long gun FID card? I did mine at the same time
  
• If you qualify for an FID, would they be able to reject you for a pistol permit? If something happened between the time you got your FID and applying for permits..like an arrest or restraining order against you , something of that nature. If there is another reason , I have not heard it , yet.
  
• If you said that your reason for acquiring an FID was for target shooting and hunting, what did you list as your reason for acquiring a pistol permit? You should not have to put a reason.
  
• Do you feel awkward going in for a pistol permit right after receiving your FID? Nope . At this point when I go in they say " soooo , what are we getting now??" When I inquired about it they also told me if I saw a gun I wanted for an upcoming event to drop off the paperwork for an OGAM exemption and they would send it out right away. They sign an extend expired permits if you stop by and the chief is in .
  

My PD overall is has good relationships with the people in town. Small town living at its best . Not all towns are so friendly and reasonable though :/ Good luck , and don't feel funny about going in for more permits. It is your right !

another thing dont act scared when you apply, apply at least for 3 permits if they tell you you cannot apply for 3, ask them to politely call the nj state police for the correct statuate on the law. legally they cannot stop you from appling for 1,000 permits, its the law but they may try and desuade you, dont let them...

Also , if you plan to collect , keep the filled forms in your computer in Word or something. That way you just have to print date and sign each time you go in , instead of having to write everything out on the forms. Like your former addresses on the mental health form and such.

Also , if you plan to collect , keep the filled forms in your computer in Word or something. That way you just have to print date and sign each time you go in , instead of having to write everything out on the forms. Like your former addresses on the mental health form and such.

 

Definitely. I just change the date print them out and sign. Then off to the PD.

Thanks IrishPetesWife & david8613 for the answers! IrishPeteswife, sounds like you have a great Police Department in your town. Unfortunately, since i am in an urban area, my situation is a little different.

 

My PD even sent a letter to my place of employment letting them know that i was applying for an FID card. This makes me wonder...Will they be sending one to my place of employment for each and every P2P as well? This kind of makes me nervous as well. I can understand the whole notion of "it's your right, not a priveledge" when it comes to dealing with the local police department. But, with the place of work, the statement is still true but i feel like the constant notifying that i am purchasing another handgun may not be the best thing for me when it comes to my boss lol. I work in a very white-collar office liberal/democrat/obama friendly environment. haha

those extra forms for a reason and letters to employers are not cool, ill let the experts answer that one...

I just had an interesting conversation with my neighbor, who I got interested in gun ownership by giving some American Rifleman Mag's and a 2012 Gun buyer's guide. That, and letting him safely handle my modest gun collection of four handguns and three rifles. He put in for his FID and two PPs several weeks ago. He's a postal carrier and was a little dismayed by the fact that the Bayonne P.D. sent a work verification to his PO. Problem is, it plainly states that he is seeking to purchase firearms, something he wanted to avoid broadcasting to his fellow workers.

 

I'm going to suggest he join the NJ2AS and let Frank and company deal with what is a blatant privacy violation.

I just had an interesting conversation with my neighbor, who I got interested in gun ownership by giving some American Rifleman Mag's and a 2012 Gun buyer's guide. That, and letting him safely handle my modest gun collection of four handguns and three rifles. He put in for his FID and two PPs several weeks ago. He's a postal carrier and was a little dismayed by the fact that the Bayonne P.D. sent a work verification to his PO. Problem is, it plainly states that he is seeking to purchase firearms, something he wanted to avoid broadcasting to his fellow workers.

 

I'm going to suggest he join the NJ2AS and let Frank and company deal with what is a blatant privacy violation.

 

Yup. This is exactly what they did with me. Only difference is now i am even more nervous because if i go ahead with the P2P, the form might mention a "handgun" versus just a "firearm". I feel like this may look even worse at my place of employment. I'm sure you guys know how it goes. Liberals think handguns have "no purpose but to kill people". Ughh.. It really is such an invasion of privacy.

I really hate this and it's sad anyone would think this way or feel they need to hide the fact that they are, or want to be a gun owner.....

 

Now hiding the fact in some situations like some have here in less favorable neighbor hoods, fine, but to think that owning a gun is taboo is total BS. Yes I do know the way this state is and yes I did grow up here but I see nothing to be ashamed of or a reason to hide it at all and I think the more people who had that attitude might make the anti's less favorable then they are or should be.

 

To me anti's are un American and have no use for them.

 

 

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I second Harry's comments on the subject! And I'm FB friends with Frank! Really nice guy and a true Patriot!

My PD even sent a letter to my place of employment letting them know that i was applying for an FID card. This makes me wonder...Will they be sending one to my place of employment for each and every P2P as well? This kind of makes me nervous as well. I can understand the whole notion of "it's your right, not a priveledge" when it comes to dealing with the local police department. But, with the place of work, the statement is still true but i feel like the constant notifying that i am purchasing another handgun may not be the best thing for me when it comes to my boss lol. I work in a very white-collar office liberal/democrat/obama friendly environment. haha

 

As I stated previously, the extra forms are illegal. The employment information (from the STS-033) is to be used for employment VERIFICATION only. They should not be disclosing the reason for the verification check, as per NJAC 13:54-1.15, which states:

 

Any background investigation conducted by the chief of police, the Superintendent or the county prosecutor, of any applicant for a permit, firearms identification card license, or registration, in accordance with the requirements of this chapter, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such investigation, including the applicant. Any application for a permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any document reflecting the issuance or denial of such permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any permit, firearms identification card, license, certification, certificate, form of register, or registration statement, maintained by any State or municipal governmental agency, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such documentation, including the applicant, except on the request of persons acting in their governmental capacities for purposes of the administration of justice.

 

You have several courses of action available to you, it depends on if/how hard you want to push it:

• Contact the NJ2AS and make sure they are aware of these transgressions - this is the easiest and least "wavemaking" route, and should be done whether you pursue it further or not.
  
• Make an appointment with either the CLEO , the Mayor or your elected municipal representative - be prepared with statutes and NJAC cites to back-up your case - imply legal action without actually stating it (don't back yourself into a corner).
  
• If no resolution, contact the NJSP Firearms Unit and complain about the abuses of your PD - again, be able to back-up your story with the illegal documents. If possible get a copy of the form they sent your employer.
  
• As a last resort, take legal action - expensive, and if it has gone that far, it will probably be akin to beating your head against the wall - but sometimes a headache is a good thing - like when it warns you of a tumor that needs to be cut out.
  

Good luck with your quest. It's really up to you if you want to push it or go along to get along. I have real problems with the extra forms and the disclosure to those trhat have no right or need to know that one wishes to purchase a firearm. NJ being an "at will" state means they can fire you for any reason - and while you may know it's because of conflicting ideologies about firearms, good luck on ever proving that in court. Unfortunately, even though firearm ownership is a right, it has not created a protected class.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Thanks for the info PizzaBob. I'd rather not paint a big red target on my back though. Although i am definitely going to notify the NJ2AS. It is quite annoying. They treated my place of employment EXACTLY like they did my two references. In other words, my boss was required to sign as a reference and mail the letter to the police station. Unreal...

I had the same experience with the Hoboken PD. They sent my employer in NYC a letter informing them that I was applying for handgun and also asked something exactly along the lines of "do you have any reason this person should not be given a handgun permit" etc. - the HR manager signed it without problem but joked to me saying was she legally liable for approving if something ever happened. It's pretty ridiculous that they do that in addition to two reference letters.

It is infuriating that they get away with these extra requirements. Getting a detailed reference from your place of employment and divulging to them that you are wanting to buy a handgun is just a bully tactic to make it unattractive to dare to ask for permission to exercise what is a right.

 

You should not have to hide the fact that you own or wish to own a gun. However , if someone is not comfortable sharing that info at work that is their business. Aside from the two references you supply , the police department has NO RIGHT to divulge your private info to other civilians in your life.

 

Infuriating.

I had the same experience with the Hoboken PD. They sent my employer in NYC a letter informing them that I was applying for handgun and also asked something exactly along the lines of "do you have any reason this person should not be given a handgun permit" etc. - the HR manager signed it without problem but joked to me saying was she legally liable for approving if something ever happened. It's pretty ridiculous that they do that in addition to two reference letters.

 

You nailed it. I am originally from Jersey City. I am now in Hoboken and that is where I submitted my FID. They did the exact same thing with me...

Now i am just nervous that they are going to go and do this again if i apply for a handgun.. I can just see it now.. my manager pulling me aside and (more than likely jokingly) asking me how many guns i need!

Now i am just nervous that they are going to go and do this again if i apply for a handgun.. I can just see it now.. my manager pulling me aside and (more than likely jokingly) asking me how many guns i need!

 

Definitely reach out to NJ2AS. The web site is www.nj2as.com . They have a program called operation compliance and it is all about the municipalities that break NJ law by asking for additional paperwork. They have been successful in getting towns to get rid of all the extra BS when it comes to the FPID/P2P process.

 

As far as your manager goes, when anyone ever asks me why I need another hand gun or how many do I need, my reply is "as many as I want".

Have a ques for the pros.  I have sent my paperwork in for the Permit and after the backround check a DV popped up from 2005. Now I was never charged and the person who filed the DV was found out to be lying and case was throw out.  And the PD is giving my a hard time. What do I do now ????   I was told to see a lawyer and when I called him he said it was $1000.00 to take on my case.

My PD sends a letter to employer stating they are doing a "firearms investigation". Reads as if Im part of a criminal investigation.

Thanks for the info PizzaBob. I'd rather not paint a big red target on my back though. Although i am definitely going to notify the NJ2AS. It is quite annoying. They treated my place of employment EXACTLY like they did my two references. In other words, my boss was required to sign as a reference and mail the letter to the police station. Unreal...

 

One of the advantages of owning your own business.  You *are* the employer.   I am so happy I'm not in "corporate life" anymore.

Have a ques for the pros.  I have sent my paperwork in for the Permit and after the backround check a DV popped up from 2005. Now I was never charged and the person who filed the DV was found out to be lying and case was throw out.  And the PD is giving my a hard time. What do I do now ????   I was told to see a lawyer and when I called him he said it was $1000.00 to take on my case.

 

You were either charged with a criminal offense, or just issued a TRO, or both. Was your hearing at the County level or in Municipal court?

Go on the state police website and there's some forms you can print out. Then go through the process to basically do a criminal background check on yourself. Anything that comes back you need to put it down on your P2P application because if you don't you could be arrested for falsifying government documents. Don't mess around with this - even if you got away with it once already.

Also don't let ANYONE make you feel like you shouldn't have guns - that is your right. As long as you can legally own them your boss, the law, your pastor - whatever - they all just have to deal with it.

 

 

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One of the advantages of owning your own business.  You *are* the employer.   I am so happy I'm not in "corporate life" anymore.

 

I have no idea if my PD sends any letters to my employer.

 

I'm guessing that if they do, the response would be a no-nonsense corporate response (i.e. "The named individual is currently employed by XYZ company").   I doubt they want to get involved in the business of personally vouching for all 16,000 employees - and the legal ramifications if something ever DID happen.

I have no idea if my PD sends any letters to my employer.

 

I'm guessing that if they do, the response would be a no-nonsense corporate response (i.e. "The named individual is currently employed by XYZ company").   I doubt they want to get involved in the business of personally vouching for all 16,000 employees - and the legal ramifications if something ever DID happen.

 

I think I'd know in a hurry if letters would have been sent to my former employer.  They wanted to be able to control almost every aspect of your private life, thinking that what you do (even privately) either reflects on their reputation, or is a risk to their "intellectual property" rights (read: investment in your training, etc.).

 

"Asset to the firm" indeed!

You were either charged with a criminal offense, or just issued a TRO, or both. Was your hearing at the County level or in Municipal court?

TRO judge threw out and because person was found lying and the charges also threw out because of the same thing ...Municipal.   I was at the PD today and the guy in front of me has been waiting sense August for his permit.