Folks,

 

Last time I purchased a rifle was about 25 years ago - a Marlin .44 lever action which still shoots really well...

 

But I'd like a more mordern rife for the range and for "just in case" mega-disaster-survival.

 

So I need advice on all the numourous numbers of options - which I would greatly appreciate...Starting with the various platforms:

 

I see that the AR platform is so ubiquitous -- everywhere.

 

I like the traditional look of the M1a platform (I am a 1911 auto and Kabar (marine combat model) knife type of guy)-- and the better reliability (i think, from what I read) than the AR.

 

Not interested in the AK platform -- weird as it may sound, I have too much baggage with the AK-name from the vietnam era.

 

Appreciate any thoughts on AR vs M1a platforms for a "Survival-Carbine". (and are there other platforms t consider?)

 

Thanks,

-Joe

I would go for the m1a, i would never trust my life to an AR platform. Not just from a reliability standpoint but a caliber and knockdown standpoint. The .223 is too small of a caliber. Now in perfect circumstances an ar will run great, but when your life depends on it do you want to have to worry about keeping a rifle perfectly clean. I carried a M14 in the military because i trusted it and it never let me down, something i couldn't say about the 16.

What the AR platform has over the M1A/M14:

 

1. Modularity

2. Optics-friendly

3. Lighter

4. Capacity (moot in NJ but figured I'd mention it)

5. Cost

6. Ease of maintenance

 

What the M1A/M14 has over the AR

 

1. Full-power round (though a .308 AR puts them on equal footing)

2. Easier to make NJ legal

Hi Joe,

 

Uncle Sam allowed me to play with a M1 from 1962 to 1965 and then with a very early 1966 AR. The early AR was a magnificent *POS* that jammed at the slightest opportunity (dust and sand were not its friends). was picky on the ammo it ate, was too short to be a 'real' gun, was being pushed by the corrupt idiots in the five-sided nuthouse on the Potomac. There was no way I, or any of my buds, would consider depending on it.

 

Time passes and the breed gets better. Long story short: I now own three AR-15s as my go-to long guns, an Armalite HBAR 20", a Colt LE6920 and a Stag model 2. I have zero M1s in residence (although there may be a shotty or two about). I have no qualms whatsoever about putting it on the line behind any of them. Why three? Hmmm, why not?

 

BTW - I'm also a 1911 guy, having somewhere around eight copies. No Kabar, but maybe soon!

 

Jack

Something to consider when the zombies are NOT attacking is that practice and training with a 308 is a bit of a shot to the wallet compared to 5.56. I have no issue whatsoever trusting my life to my AR platforms. Something many dont seem to realise is that a springfield armory M1A is NOT an M14.And frankly if you talk to enough trainers you will find they rather dislike it when someone shows up to a class with one because many times it dont make it through. The reciever is cast compared to an original M14 and the parts are not up to snuff in the view of some. Im not an M1A guy so I am sure that there are those that can share more info on that. The deal breaker for me on an M1A/FAL/G3/PTR91 is the hinged mag system. I hate it! The other is as mentioned earlier, optics considerations. Now if a hinged mag system dont bother you, you like irons and natural wood and arent hitting the 500 round a day training course, I can see the attraction to an M1A. If your budget is more fluid, then you can look at builds from the likes of LRB. It is built on a Forged reciever.

 

Shane

Combat auto, great subject....

 

I'm gonna follow this, I would like to hear(see/read) on what the expert have to say.

 

I'm a huge fan both m1a/m14 and AR's and I already have 2 AR's, so now it's time to even up the score and get a Garand and maybe a socom in the near future.

 

But, what made me decide to get an Ar platform first was the OPTIONs to make it look like MY OWN PERSONALIZED RIFLE, I know I'm sure that everybody seems to have one or two or three. I would bet $100 that even if you put 30 random AR's Together I could tell which one MINE is. Also ammo is kinda cheap and readily available.

 

I own both and would have no problem carrying either one when the SHTF. IMO its just a matter of looking at all the pros and cons to each, see which ones apply to what you are looking for, and choose accordingly. Also with the different models of each out there you can fine tune what you might want. For example if you like all the pros of the AR but want the stopping power of the .308 just buy an .308 AR. Or you like the M1a but what to customize the shiznit out of it buy a Socom II. The only thing i can say i really like one over the other with is i can change a mag on my AR in a hot second, but even though i'v done it a million times i still have a problem sometimes with the M1a.

For about the price of an M1A, you can get a decent AR and a .30 caliber rifle.... Saiga 7.62x39, Saiga .308, Ruger Mini-30...

 

An $800 AR and a Ruger Mini-30 (or Saiga 7.62) would be an awesome combination and 7.62x39 is much cheaper to train with than .308. You would also have the flexibility of getting different uppers for the AR.

I have both. You cant go wrong either way. In my opinion the AR has a slight edge. I say this because: The optics choices are better, The ammo is cheaper, The gun is lighter in weight. I do love my M1a also mainly because: It is a tried and true classic weapon with no equal, It is a great long range weapon, It has the best iron sights (National Match) of any weapon I have ever fired. I shoot at CJRPC regularly. If you want to try em both side by side just send me a PM and Ill let you know when Im going.

Ken

Thanks everyone for your feedback...My takeway is that they are both great rifles with Pros and Cons - and choice is almost a matter of "taste"...

 

I am leaning to the M1A SOCOM with the 16" barrel...I like the look, load, and ruggedness of the M1A -- but prefere a more "Carbine" implimentation - which the SOCOM fits....

 

My only concern is the effective range of the shorter 16" barrel...The full leagnth M1a is 22 inches I bielive. There is a "police" version with 18" barrel also.

 

Does anyone here have a qualitative view of how the following would compare as far as effective firing range:

 

M1A 16" barrel:

AR "standard":

M1a 22" barrel: (some forums suggest 1000 yards?)

 

I really appreciate it,

-Joe

For me the best of both worlds is my Stag Model 3 and my M-1 Garand. The M-1 has that M-1A feel, 8 rd capacity and is a helluva lot if fun to shoot..plus its a nice collector piece IMHO

IMHO these are "But I'd like a more mordern rife for the range and for "just in case" mega-disaster-survival" completely different type of guns.

Can't help you at the moment, but somewhere during the first week of Sept, (shooting for the 5th or 6th in the AM), I'll be at Cherry Ridge sigting in my new M1A SOCOM II and my AR, also to be sighted in. Just put a flattop on it and the sights and Trijicon need to be redone... If you are a member, more than happy to let you check them out.

Find out more about the SOCOM before you buy it. I believe there may be problems with cycling the shorter action. Personally, I would rather get a Scout Squad.

Nope, all is fine... Went over all of it with SA before I bought it. Check out my original post titled My New Toy i believe it was.

 

Find out more about the SOCOM before you buy it. I believe there may be problems with cycling the shorter action. Personally, I would rather get a Scout Squad.

 

 

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Nope, all is fine... Went over all of it with SA before I bought it. Check out my original post titled My New Toy i believe it was.

 

 

 

 

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John, I can't find that post "my new toy". I am very interested in reading it and wonder if you can repost it here?

Thanks,

-Joe

Sure, sorry 'bout dat... It's a pain when I'm on my ipad via Tapatalk...

But here ya go:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/38642-my-new-toy/page__fromsearch__1

 

 

 

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I have the scout squad which is an 18" barrel and it's accurate as hell at 100 yards with just the iron sights. Haven't shot it further then that yet. I believe the Socom 16 and the scout squad have the same rail on the barrel for optics too.. The Socom 16 is really set up to be a high cal. close quarts combat rifle with the 16.25" barrel and lighter weight. It even has a ghost ring sight in the back, which was a no go for me.

I like M1's, M14/M1A's and the like, but the price of a .223 entices me. I honestly couldn't find any .308 (let alone 7.62 NATO) around me for under $1 a round. All the stores either wanted $20+ a box or were sold out. Yes, one can buy online, but somedays you need to buy a few boxes and head to the range. Cheapest I ever found was Herters .308 for $12 a box in Pennsylvania at the Furniture Depot. It was steel cased Tula in a new box.

 

I have seen 5.56 as cheap as $6 a box, and I have bought brass .223 at "expensive" prices for $9 a box. You might want to look into a Mini-14.

 

I'm cheap. If I ever win the lottery, I will have a International Harvester M1 and a few cases of 30.06. Maybe a USGI M14 if I could find one (theres bound to be a few registered ones in civilian hands).

5 boxes of 7.62x51 Federal M1A at $16.49 for a box of 20.... $6 shipping... Comes out to roughly .88 cents a round.

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/federal-ae-7-62x51-m1a-168gr-otm-20rd-box.html

 

 

I like M1's, M14/M1A's and the like, but the price of a .223 entices me. I honestly couldn't find any .308 (let alone 7.62 NATO) around me for under $1 a round. All the stores either wanted $20+ a box or were sold out. Yes, one can buy online, but somedays you need to buy a few boxes and head to the range. Cheapest I ever found was Herters .308 for $12 a box in Pennsylvania at the Furniture Depot. It was steel cased Tula in a new box.

 

I have seen 5.56 as cheap as $6 a box, and I have bought brass .223 at "expensive" prices for $9 a box. You might want to look into a Mini-14.

 

I'm cheap. If I ever win the lottery, I will have a International Harvester M1 and a few cases of 30.06. Maybe a USGI M14 if I could find one (theres bound to be a few registered ones in civilian hands).

 

 

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http://www.ammunitio...roducts_id/2585

 

100 rounds of AE .308 150gr for $78.95 ($0.79 ppr) + shipping of course.

 

Most local gun shops/ranges will charge you $20+ for a box of 20, but the same goes for .223/5.56. Always going to pay a little more at a range or local gun shop.

I should have mentioned that my post of 88 cents was with shipping.

 

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/24_100_283/products_id/2585

 

100 rounds of AE .308 150gr for $78.95 ($0.79 ppr) + shipping of course.

 

 

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I should have mentioned that my post of 88 cents was with shipping.

 

 

 

 

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You did. I was just to lazy to see what ATG charged for shipping to get the total price haha. Im sure its around the same. Just another option to get some cheeper ammo.

Not the same grain though. That's 150... I ordered 168... I usually get stuff from them but this morning they idn't have this load. So ordered 5 boxes from Palm which I said I wouldn't do. Let's see how long it takes this time. Nobody has this stuff in stock as is.$12.11 for their shipping. They are high compared to PSA.... .91 cents per round... meh...

 

You did. I was just to lazy to see what ATG charged for shipping to get the total price haha. Im sure its around the same. Just another option to get some cheeper ammo.

Here's a Hickok review of the Socom 16. He always does good reviews.

 

 

Seen that one... he's a pip. Needs a shower too.. LOL.

Folks, Thanks for all your great posts...

 

Since this Newbi started this topic, I'd like to tell you where I am at...

 

I hope the AR folks don't take this personal or anything --- take into account that I am well into my 50s, somewhat old/fasion :-) traditional type (like I said I am a 1911 auto/Kabar wwII marine knife type of guy) -- so here it is - the M16 when it came out in the Nam days never did anything for me...Never looked like a "real" rifle. Of course this is not fact based and strickly an emotional evaluation...As I need a new carbine -- I was almost talking myself into purchasing the AR.

 

Till I caught wind of the M1A...After thinking about it all week --- It is just more in my taste of things...And If I run out of amo I can still use ir to wack the Bad Guy :-).

 

I am mostly a pistol guy - so will not shoot more than 1,000 rounds a year - so yea 1,000 bucks but not bad over a year.

 

I am OK with an effective range of 300 yards. Does anyone know if the 16" barrel M1A can be accurate at 300 yards?

 

Thanks,

-Joe

Really the Socom 16 isn't meant to shoot long range. It has a fat front post and a ghost ring sight in the back so I'd assume 100 yards no problem, 200 yards tough, 300 yard even harder. Keep in mind that this is using the stock sights, throw a scope on it and you'll be fine, Seeing how .308 is still effective at 1000 yards. Also keep in mind they only make the socom 16 in the black composite stock. Only because you were saying you have more of an "old fashioned" taste in guns.

 

Have you ever considered the 18"scout squad? I think its a nice middle ground between the standard and socom. still short and maneuverable enough for a SHTF rifle, but still designed to shoot at longer ranges. The scout also comes in a walnut and cammo stock, as well as black.

Easy solution...buy both

Really the Socom 16 isn't meant to shoot long range. It has a fat front post and a ghost ring sight in the back so I'd assume 100 yards no problem, 200 yards tough, 300 yard even harder. Keep in mind that this is using the stock sights, throw a scope on it and you'll be fine, Seeing how .308 is still effective at 1000 yards. Also keep in mind they only make the socom 16 in the black composite stock. Only because you were saying you have more of an "old fashioned" taste in guns.

 

Have you ever considered the 18"scout squad? I think its a nice middle ground between the standard and socom. still short and maneuverable enough for a SHTF rifle, but still designed to shoot at longer ranges. The scout also comes in a walnut and cammo stock, as well as black.

 

Big Mack, I am looking at the Scott also...Not for the color (my traditional bias is mosty the rifle look and feel vs the AR), but for the performance. What kind of range might I expect from the 18" barreled scott?

 

Thanks,

-Joe