I applied for several permits from the local PD back in August. Normal time is 7-8 weeks wait. Between family issues and a few other higher priority things going on I didnt get a chance to check on my permits until the week before the storm. The lady who handles permits was on bereavement leave. NOT a problem, I understand that. A few days later the storm hits, and the PD is effectively destroyed. paper records are trashed, and most likely all of their computers are as well. Pretty much knowing the answer I was going to get I checked with them a few days ago, and had my fears confirmed..so, it's going to be months before they even begin taking new permit applications, and the permit app already in the pipeline is effectively Null and Void. I called NJSP Firearms unit today, and explained my problem to the secretary there, and at least she was Honest enough to tell me she didnt have a clue of what i should do, and also understood that this problem is going to escalate considering how many PD's are in the same shape as Keansburg's. Unfortunately all of the FIU Troopers are assigned to other duties relating to the storm right now and she was holding the fort alone. She said that they should be back in the office next week, So I'll try then. Hopefully they can come up with a solution, such as the local NJSP barracks handling it. I'll let you guys know what happens.

 

***NOTE*** this is NOT a Knock on Keansburg's PD..they have MUCH more important things to worry about right now than permits, with their HQ gone, and a significant portion of the town devastated by the storm.

Except that, of course, the permits should have been complete by sometime in September (30 days and all that). 7-8 weeks is bull, especially for someone of KNOWN criminal background (ie none).

Except that, of course, the permits should have been complete by sometime in September (30 days and all that). 7-8 weeks is bull, especially for someone of KNOWN criminal background (ie none).

 

It is what it is..but i'd be in the EXACT same place if i had put my permit app in 29 days before the storm. The problem here is this falls into a seeming regulatory gap. the default answer is "Local PD must issue the permits" the Local PD is not a factor, because they physically CANT issue any permits, they have no facilities, and every person on the dept, including the civilian secretary who handles records and permits in totally involved with OEM stuff. the questio is if the State Police will step in and handle it until KPD (And the rest of them who are in the same boat) are back up and running again.

the questio is if the State Police will step in and handle it until KPD (And the rest of them who are in the same boat) are back up and running again.

 

I think I can answer that question for you. You probably won't like the answer, though....

Your rights are not a necessity in an emergency.

 

But you knew that.

Your rights are not a necessity in an emergency.

 

But you knew that.

 

Take your anti-cop crap to another thread..the adults are talking here skippy.

I think I can answer that question for you. You probably won't like the answer, though....

 

I realize that, and you're probably right. This is definitly one of the times i wish Lt Schuleter was still running the FIU..he was reasonable, and would have recognized the larger problem here with so many departments that are affected. The guy in there now?? I dont know..IIRC he was the one that went running to the AG over Schuleter's Carbine Letter.

Hmm.. that's not something i had thought of and frankly i've not been by the PD lately as i've largely tried to stay away from ground zero and not be a gawker. I was thinking of putting in some apps too. Guess i'll have to stand by a little longer. Let me know when you hear something about it.

 

SIDEBAR: So does this mean all record of pistol purchases are gone, at least at the local level?

I had put in 3 permits Halloween week. Shiny new HG sitting at my FFL just waiting. I knew I may be SOL in terms of wait-time as the storm could be a cause for delays due to manpower issues.

 

KPD, you have it far worse with your situation. I'm just not sure why it will take "months" before they can start taking permits again. After-all the whole permit process is 1970's style paper based system. I would think they would be setting up temporary quarters (if they haven't done so already) like a mobile trailer office in order to setup some computers, desks, and file cabinets.

 

If they can't I would think that the cheif could make an executive decision and ask the NJSP to take over FID/PPP operations for them until they can get to a position where they are able to process them again.

 

Maybe NJ2AS can work with the NJSP in order to come up with a plan for all areas where their local police services are dramatically impacted?

Hmm.. that's not something i had thought of and frankly i've not been by the PD lately as i've largely tried to stay away from ground zero and not be a gawker. I was thinking of putting in some apps too. Guess i'll have to stand by a little longer. Let me know when you hear something about it.

 

SIDEBAR: So does this mean all record of pistol purchases are gone, at least at the local level?

that was the take I got. According to the Capt i spoke to who's a friend, they lose EVERY paper record that was on the first floor of the building. So far they dont have ANY state computer access set up, and when they do it's going to be limited, so no background checks for a while either.

I had put in 3 permits Halloween week. Shiny new HG sitting at my FFL just waiting. I knew I may be SOL in terms of wait-time as the storm could be a cause for delays due to manpower issues.

 

KPD, you have it far worse with your situation. I'm just not sure why it will take "months" before they can start taking permits again. After-all the whole permit process is 1970's style paper based system. I would think they would be setting up temporary quarters (if they haven't done so already) like a mobile trailer office in order to setup some computers, desks, and file cabinets.

 

If they can't I would think that the cheif could make an executive decision and ask the NJSP to take over FID/PPP operations for them until they can get to a position where they are able to process them again.

 

Maybe NJ2AS can work with the NJSP in order to come up with a plan for all areas where their local police services are dramatically impacted?

I think the "months' part comes from their pretty much 100% Focus on OEM Issues. they're a small agency to begin with. Right now just the day-to-day work of getting things back to normal is the priority

Does anyone think that this might help us get off the permit system and go with just a NICS check? Understandable that Jersey will loss the fee and sales tax, but does anyone have any opinions?

This is a feature, not a bug, of the current P2P system. Since the object of the antiquated system is to discourage, limit and delay handgun/firearms ownership, physical destruction of an agency's offices, rendering them incapable of processing such paperwork, is an added bonus to TPTB. Who can object? The PD is too busy, politicians and such will claim they are keeping the streets safer in this time of dire straits by 'keeping guns out of the hands of looters'. Win-Win for them, lose for yout

Take your anti-cop crap to another thread..the adults are talking here skippy.

 

Al, you know me better than that. I just said what "rightisright" implied.

 

I'm not anti-cop. I'm anti "I should be treated differently than a regular joe because I'm ____" (insert title whether it's mayor, fire fighter, veteran, postman, fed, leo, judge, prosecutor, president, Eliot Spitzer, etc) So, yeah, if that's what you consider anti-cop, then that's the way it is.

 

My point was in an emergency, the government puts all kinds of things in place (martial law, seizure of weapons, no pets in this shelter, etc) which might violate your rights.

 

Further my point was that I doubt Trenton or anyone else is worried about your (extremely limited) right? to own firearms in NJ. But you knew this too.

 

I do applaud you for asking the question of NJSP though and pursuing this. I hope your inquiry results in actual action on the part of the NJSP (is it cop bashing if I say "but I doubt it"?) and I hope your rights are restored forthwith.

Take your anti-cop crap to another thread..the adults are talking here skippy.

 

Here is the deal, if so many police departments are "too understaffed" to do their job then they should be petitioning the legislature to change the antiquated system along with the rest of us that are subjugated by it. The law written in 1966 provides for 30 days to perform a manual paper background check, in 2012 for departments to routinely take 3-9 times that to search a computerized and networked database is wholly unacceptable. If public servants want to piss, **** and moan that we want them held accountable for, at best, their inept performance or, at worst, their blatant disrespect for the RIGHTS of the citizens they are paid to serve, not harass; they can blow it out their respective asses. Do your job and shut your mouth; if you were working in the real world you'd have been held accountable to the people that pay your salary and probable have already been fired by now. (<=== not directed at you Kd but to the poor me, we're too busy boo-hooing crowd. After I read it, it sounded like I directed that toward you which was not the intent.)

Im upset at the guy who couldn't make it in to do my oil change last week. That's his job. He knew it when he took the job.

Im upset at the guy who couldn't make it in to do my oil change last week. That's his job. He knew it when he took the job.

 

So if every time you took your car to the shop to get your oil changed "the guy" was out sick and they told you to leave it there for 3-9 days until he gets back and catches up you would keep going there and he would never lose his job? Thank you for making my point.

Al, you know me better than that. I just said what "rightisright" implied.

 

I'm not anti-cop. I'm anti "I should be treated differently than a regular joe because I'm ____" (insert title whether it's mayor, fire fighter, veteran, postman, fed, leo, judge, prosecutor, president, Eliot Spitzer, etc) So, yeah, if that's what you consider anti-cop, then that's the way it is.

 

My point was in an emergency, the government puts all kinds of things in place (martial law, seizure of weapons, no pets in this shelter, etc) which might violate your rights.

 

Further my point was that I doubt Trenton or anyone else is worried about your (extremely limited) right? to own firearms in NJ. But you knew this too.

 

I do applaud you for asking the question of NJSP though and pursuing this. I hope your inquiry results in actual action on the part of the NJSP (is it cop bashing if I say "but I doubt it"?) and I hope your rights are restored forthwith.

 

And that isnt the case here..they arent getting their permits either. They physically do not have the ABILITY to process the paperwork. Any records about applications that have already been filed are GONE...... G.O.N.E. No Computers..Nothing. Now here are some toher problems that are attendant with this. Someone from one of the affected towns moves..so the apply for the change of Address, part of which is the sending off of copies of the applicant's permits..which no longer exist. This is going to add time to THAT process as well.

Here is the deal, if so many police departments are "too understaffed" to do their job then they should be petitioning the legislature to change the antiquated system along with the rest of us that are subjugated by it. The law written in 1966 provides for 30 days to perform a manual paper background check, in 2012 for departments to routinely take 3-9 times that to search a computerized and networked database is wholly unacceptable. If public servants want to piss, **** and moan that we want them held accountable for, at best, their inept performance or, at worst, their blatant disrespect for the RIGHTS of the citizens they are paid to serve, not harass; they can blow it out their respective asses. Do your job and shut your mouth; if you were working in the real world you'd have been held accountable to the people that pay your salary and probable have already been fired by now. (<=== not directed at you Kd but to the poor me, we're too busy boo-hooing crowd. After I read it, it sounded like I directed that toward you which was not the intent.)

 

Well then Skippy TAKE THE TEST and show us all how it's done.......

 

Well then Skippy TAKE THE TEST and show us all how it's done.......

 

That would never happen. It's much easier to complain from the safety of the internet. Don't waste your time kpd. Trust me they are not worth the hassle

Well then Skippy TAKE THE TEST and show us all how it's done.......

 

OK smart ass, here is the deal. I have no desire to become a tax feeding, entitled, elitist douchebag but I am tired of them acting like some sort of martyr for their "sacrifice" to "protect" me from myself. Give up the ridiculous pay, benefits and pension and volunteer your service and I might have a little more respect for you. In the interim defend bs laws and bureaucratic regulations contrary to the rights and liberties of law abiding citizens and their freedom to protect and defend themselves, their families and property and I'll continue to call you on being and/or supporting the douchebags that do. UmOK smart ass?

OK smart ass, here is the deal. I have no desire to become a tax feeding, entitled, elitist douchebag but I am tired of them acting like some sort of martyr for their "sacrifice" to "protect" me from myself. Give up the ridiculous pay, benefits and pension and volunteer your service and I might have a little more respect for you. In the interim defend bs laws and bureaucratic regulations contrary to the rights and liberties of law abiding citizens and their freedom to protect and defend themselves, their families and property and I'll continue to call you on being and/or supporting the douchebags that do. UmOK smart ass?

 

Nahh you can be a douche all by your lonesome. its guy like you that make me enjoy my pension VERY MUCH.

That would never happen. It's much easier to complain from the safety of the internet. Don't waste your time kpd. Trust me they are not worth the hassle

 

just another for the ignore list BL..luckily most folks here arent asshats

 

OK smart ass, here is the deal. I have no desire to become a tax feeding, entitled, elitist douchebag but I am tired of them acting like some sort of martyr for their "sacrifice" to "protect" me from myself. Give up the ridiculous pay, benefits and pension and volunteer your service and I might have a little more respect for you. In the interim defend bs laws and bureaucratic regulations contrary to the rights and liberties of law abiding citizens and their freedom to protect and defend themselves, their families and property and I'll continue to call you on being and/or supporting the douchebags that do. UmOK smart ass?

 

You can give up everything you worked for too and we can live like a bunch of commies who share everything. I took the job when it wasn't popular to take. Now all the yuppie white collar douche wants me to suffer because they suffered. Did I complain when they were making a ton of money and my salary stayed the same. Sorry...I will enjoy my pension that I am working for.

Ok..now..lets try to get back on Topic. How many towns are going to be in this predicament??

You can give up everything you worked for too and we can live like a bunch of commies who share everything. I took the job when it wasn't popular to take. Now all the yuppie white collar douche wants me to suffer because they suffered. Did I complain when they were making a ton of money and my salary stayed the same. Sorry...I will enjoy my pension that I am working for.

 

Say what you want but you are turning into nothing but a bunch of overpaid redcoats in my eyes. I don't need or want to be protected, I want to be left the hell alone and am tired of better than 1/3 of what I work hard for being taken from me at the point of a gun and given to people I don't need or want protecting me for my own good then telling me how thankful I should be for it. As far as I am concerned you are protecting the bad guys from us. I grew up on and around the streets of Newark and always took care of my own problems, I don't need or want any help thank you, I'd rather keep my money. The next few years should be fun to watch; enough people will be going Galt that you guys are going to have to start kissing those pensions and benefits we pay for goodbye so enjoy them while they last tough guy.

aren't we all supposed to be on the same side? the gun guys vs the antis. quarreling like this will get us nowhere. i have to make 2 points:

 

blame NJ, not the police

 

don't be hypersensitive. not everyone on this board is out to trash talk cops.

 

 

this post was much, MUCH longer, but i'm restricting myself to these 2 points.

Law enforcement today is not what it once was. Granted, this is the fault of the bureaucrats, but the cops have chosen to be the minions of our corrupt system.

 

Law enforcement was once about maintaining order and protecting people. Officers used to have a lot of discretion handling things. Once upon a time if a kid was a jackass you could smack him on the head and bring him home for his parents to give him another smack. Not anymore. Again, not the fault of the cops - the fault of attorneys and stupid parents.

 

Today, the primary value of law enforcement to a community is to be a revenue stream. Until this changes the us vs them mentality will continue to grow.

Disregard. Tired of arguing.

I love it.