Actually the free phone program that started with land lines was extended to mobile phones under W so it's not just the dems. It started with a republican and expanded to mobile phones under a republican.

 

Really? And you think the woman in the video is a republican? I think NOT sir

 

 

Really? And you think the woman in the video is a republican? I think NOT sir

 

Never said the woman in the video was a republican Ray just stating the fact that it was started by a republican and expanded to cell phones under a republican. The video just shows one of the many ignorant Americans. As Winston Churchill once said "the greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter". The sad part is the Republi-Crats would like us all to think they're different parties.

Doesn't matter who started it, a big government republican or a big government democrat. It was mainly so everyone could have a phone in their home for emergencies. Everyone doesn't need a cell phone, that is just ridiculous.

Having worked Black Friday before (honest work paid for my education, thank you), I have personally witnessed thousands of people of all ages, races, sexes - and yes, political affiliation - act like complete inhumane @$$HOLES to get a $20 DVD player.

Actually the free phone program that started with land lines was extended to mobile phones under W so it's not just the dems. It started with a republican and expanded to mobile phones under a republican.

 

Which is exactly the problem with the two party system. The debate has shifted so far to the left almost no one is left on the right anymore. Lately in our two party system you are either voting for the leftist socialist or the moderate liberal republican. How did this happen? It's hard to get elected when you run against Santa Claus, in essence you have to out Santa Santa to get elected. Sadly.

Which is exactly the problem with the two party system. The debate has shifted so far to the left almost no one is left on the right anymore. Lately in our two party system you are either voting for the leftist socialist or the moderate liberal republican. How did this happen? It's hard to get elected when you run against Santa Claus, in essence you have to out Santa Santa to get elected. Sadly.

You've hit the nail on the head. The entire country has been moving left for years now. Some say this is progress.

Which is exactly the problem with the two party system. The debate has shifted so far to the left almost no one is left on the right anymore. Lately in our two party system you are either voting for the leftist socialist or the moderate liberal republican. How did this happen?

 

One could, and has before, sat and wrote a book answering your question. The long and short of it is, most right wing ideas are simply obsolete or overly idealistic. For example, the guy above saying "hard work paid for his education" Great for him, however that was likely the 70s or 80s and not last year. I'm personally not sure how and where a 18/19 year old kid in today's world would be able to raise $100,000 in a matter of four years via minimum/low wage jobs part time. So student loan and their availability ARE a big deal. So when the 68 year old politician tells his 57 year old constituents that you can just "pay your own way through school!" it makes sense to them. But the 20 year old hearing that knows its a crock of crap. That's what happens when you try and apply 40 year old thinking in a modern era. Them, of course, you run into even worse problems when you try and apply 18th century concepts 250 years later.

For example, the guy above saying "hard work paid for his education" Great for him, however that was likely the 70s or 80s and not last year. I'm personally not sure how and where a 18/19 year old kid in today's world would be able to raise $100,000 in a matter of four years via minimum/low wage jobs part time. So student loan and their availability ARE a big deal.

 

Hi. I'm the guy who said "hard work paid for my education." I'm not disagreeing with you, just to clarify. I graduated in 2000, lived at home, attended a community college and worked two jobs. While other college kids were out partying, I was exhausted and trying to study and/or sleep.

 

I do think my story is an exception, and I do think America is becoming an increasingly class-based society - where it doesn't matter how hard you work, to even get an interview with a decent company, you need to attend a school that is $40,000 a year, and for people like me, that is not an option. We could get into the educational profit industry, but that is another discussion. Again, not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just wanted to clarify.

 

Which is exactly the problem with the two party system. The debate has shifted so far to the left almost no one is left on the right anymore. Lately in our two party system you are either voting for the leftist socialist or the moderate liberal republican. How did this happen? It's hard to get elected when you run against Santa Claus, in essence you have to out Santa Santa to get elected. Sadly.

 

This is funny; my liberal friends say that America has shifted so far to the right, the only choices are "voting for a centrist or an extreme right-wing nutjob."

 

I'm proud to be an independent.

One could, and has before, sat and wrote a book answering your question. The long and short of it is, most right wing ideas are simply obsolete or overly idealistic. For example, the guy above saying "hard work paid for his education" Great for him, however that was likely the 70s or 80s and not last year. I'm personally not sure how and where a 18/19 year old kid in today's world would be able to raise $100,000 in a matter of four years via minimum/low wage jobs part time. So student loan and their availability ARE a big deal. So when the 68 year old politician tells his 57 year old constituents that you can just "pay your own way through school!" it makes sense to them. But the 20 year old hearing that knows its a crock of crap. That's what happens when you try and apply 40 year old thinking in a modern era. Them, of course, you run into even worse problems when you try and apply 18th century concepts 250 years later.

 

For a majority of todays students I'd say that it's tough, but I can also show you a bunch that are now making 6 figures a year while going to school, but that's another topic, but it's out there if you look in the right places and do the right thing and willing to take a chance, and no nothing illegal at all, I thought I throw that in before it was brought up. lol

 

 

One could, and has before, sat and wrote a book answering your question. The long and short of it is, most right wing ideas are simply obsolete or overly idealistic. For example, the guy above saying "hard work paid for his education" Great for him, however that was likely the 70s or 80s and not last year. I'm personally not sure how and where a 18/19 year old kid in today's world would be able to raise $100,000 in a matter of four years via minimum/low wage jobs part time. So student loan and their availability ARE a big deal. So when the 68 year old politician tells his 57 year old constituents that you can just "pay your own way through school!" it makes sense to them. But the 20 year old hearing that knows its a crock of crap. That's what happens when you try and apply 40 year old thinking in a modern era. Them, of course, you run into even worse problems when you try and apply 18th century concepts 250 years later.

 

Here is the problem, much like every other economic bubble created over the years education costs are not grounded in reality because they are highly subsidized. Because money is easily available there is no practical cost constraint. Take away the subsidies and easy money and you will see tuitions plummet as compitition for the remaining money increases. One massive problem is I have seen some "highly educated" people on paper that I am amazed can find their way to work every day. In some respects a degree has been diminish through the years because of the large numbers of truly stupid people that have them. It will be interesting to see what the future holds but I have more faith in the line of thinking that built this country over some 200 years than the line of thinking that has corrupted and destroyed it over the better part of last 80 years.

SixtyTwo327, first off I want to thank you for being honest and open. I also want to point out that you went to community college and there's nothing wrong with that, however it is worth noting that university typically costs triple or quadruple of what CC costs. CC is around what $3-5k for in county residents? Whereas university tuitions are anywhere from $10k-40k per year. So I think we can both agree that "payign your way through school via hard work" is simply an impossibility for most people, no matter how hard they work.

 

I have more faith in the line of thinking that built this country over some 200 years than the line of thinking that has corrupted and destroyed it over the better part of last 80 years.

 

You, like most people, fall into the "America was always so perfect until these days" myth. There has been corruption and greed in every government ever made. Our founders were politicians, not saints. Most of them believed a black person was either 5/8 of a human or not even one at all. That only a wealthy white man should vote. George Washington was the largest land owner in the colonies. He was the guy who distilled 10,000 barrels of whiskey for sale then went and shut the moonshiners down in the whiskey rebellion because hey, military force is a great way to eliminate competition. That was his idea of the "free market". You can go all the way up through the years, some of these guys make their modern counterparts look like honest individuals.

 

The list goes on and on. The founders were not perfect and people really need to stop acting like these guys were Saints.

You, like most people, fall into the "America was always so perfect until these days" myth. There has been corruption and greed in every government ever made. Our founders were politicians, not saints. Most of them believed a black person was either 5/8 of a human or not even one at all. That only a wealthy white man should vote. George Washington was the largest land owner in the colonies. He was the guy who distilled 10,000 barrels of whiskey for sale then went and shut the moonshiners down in the whiskey rebellion because hey, military force is a great way to eliminate competition. That was his idea of the "free market". You can go all the way up through the years, some of these guys make their modern counterparts look like honest individuals.

The list goes on and on. The founders were not perfect and people really need to stop acting like these guys were Saints.

 

And your point? You are either disingenuous and know counting slaves as 5/8ths of a person was a compromise to ensure the south ratified the Constitution or you are displaying for the rest of us the indoctrinated ignorance you have been taught in the public school system. The truth is if the founders had not compromised and counted slaves as 5/8ths of a person instead of as whole persons, as the southerners had wanted, we would have never have been able to end slavery as the southern states would have had far greater representation in the congress.

 

The asstards that want us to become more like the European socialists are somehow fixing all the evil things our founders did to us? Really? Any asstard that thinks we should become more like Europe needs to hop on a plane and not let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.

 

Anyways, fact of the matter remains. The constitution was formed in a time when half the country considered blacks to be non-humans, diseases could be "bled out" and all that other fun stuff from the 18th century. So to sit and pretend those ideals are this perfect, wonderful, thing is just ridiculous is what I am trying to say.

And your point? You are either disingenuous and know counting slaves as 5/8ths of a person was a compromise to ensure the south ratified the Constitution or you are displaying for the rest of us the indoctrinated ignorance you have been taught in the public school system. The truth is if the founders had not compromised and counted slaves as 5/8ths of a person instead of as whole persons, as the southerners had wanted, we would have never have been able to end slavery as the southern states would have had far greater representation in the congress.

 

The asstards that want us to become more like the European socialists are somehow fixing all the evil things our founders did to us? Really? Any asstard that thinks we should become more like Europe needs to hop on a plane and not let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.

 

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