Personally, I wouldn't want a fully auto gun because I wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn with it. I'd rather have burst mode. Regardless, everyone should have the same access to full auto that they have to semi.

 

 

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Good reason they are so cheap. MACs are the best example of an inaccurate FA weapon in their original form. STENs don't have a good rep for reliability. That's with guns from the factory those thrown together from parts kits have to be worse

 

I've shot a few over the years, both Sten and Macs..... as long as you have even a MODICUM of self control, and dont play Mag Dump, they are as accurate as they need to be for what they were designed for. I've never had any trouble getting 3 round bursts out of even a Mac-11 .380..and THOSE are Zippers when it comes to ROF

This.

 

Considering I spent my career with access ONLY to a Glock 23, and Mossberg 590 (S&W 681, and 870 before that)..I agree...deveryone seems to think that every cop out there is equipped with a trunk full of goodies up to and including an M240B on a flex-mount...even the ones who DO have rifles..are still just carrying Semis.

Personally, I wouldn't want a fully auto gun because I wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn with it. I'd rather have burst mode. Regardless, everyone should have the same access to full auto that they have to semi.

 

 

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Trigger control...no need for burst nonsense..it was a complicated mechanical issue to a training problem... at least in the M-16

Personally, I wouldn't want a fully auto gun because I wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn with it.  I'd rather have burst mode. Regardless, everyone should have the same access to full auto that they have to semi.

 

 

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I've shot a few over the years, both Sten and Macs..... as long as you have even a MODICUM of self control, and dont play Mag Dump, they are as accurate as they need to be for what they were designed for.  I've never had any trouble getting 3 round bursts out of even a Mac-11 .380..and THOSE are Zippers when it comes to ROF

 

 

 

$500 bucks says I can mag dump an M16 or SMG with a 30 round mag and hit ten bottles faster than you can with any semiauto.

 

Or hit multiple torso targets at 25 yards than you can in the same period of time.  With a mag dump.

 

I was taught to shoot as a kid.  I was taught to shoot burst in the military.  But I was taught to shoot FA in the military, unlike most of you military and cops.

 

If you train to shoot bursts, you train to make your weapon walk.  And then they tell you that your weapon will walk more the longer your burst.

 

If you engage targets with long strings, you don't train to let your weapon walk.  You train to hit targets.

 

In 2 hours I can teach the average schmoe to shoot better in full auto than a US Military Infantry that has been in Combat Arms for 20 years and about to retire.

 

It aint hard.  You just never spent a good hour trying to do it.  Because everybody told you it doesn't work.

 

Can I get a witness.

Well I'll bite the bullet (pun intended???) and be the test subject on this one. Where should we meet for you to train me to shoot full auto? I don't even want a cut in the $500.

 

Well I'll bite the bullet (pun intended???) and be the test subject on this one. Where should we meet for you to train me to shoot full auto? I don't even want a cut in the $500.

 

 

 

You are not the test subject, a little late for that. But you will need a written psych clearance

My mistake. I don't want to be a test subject, but I will be the average schmoe. I can write a great psych clearance as well.

My mistake. I don't want to be a test subject, but I will be the average schmoe. I can write a great psych clearance as well.

 

 

Great. But not volunteering to see what you write for me.

I like them. Fun, but CO$TLY.

The whole deal with what's too much or not enough, in terms of the 2nd Ammendment, is pretty tricky...

 

It makes sense, the thought of someone getting a full-auto semi-easily and running around mindless, turning everything into Swiss cheese, is pretty scary.

 

But so is the thought of someone running around with a semi-auto, or a pump shotgun, or a handgun. That's where the politicians get the masses convinced - this whole idea of fear. The ban of ANY gun can be justified in such a way, using fear tactics. I was watching NJ12 today when they talked about Christie's press conference, and showed subsequent interviews with people on the street. Obviously, they were asked about their opinions on gun control. One lady said "you know, people could buy guns, but no one should own those assault rifles that shoot lots of bullets per second". Are you kidding me???

 

That fear turns into disinformation and simply creates a new "evil" weapon... So, for us as pro-gun to compromise at full-autos, and have to regress and let the anti's battle us over semi-autos, is completely counter-productive. Once we lose ground, they simply keep fighting and pushing us back. Our end-goal isn't to preserve the legality of semi-autos, it shouldn't end there. The same is for the anti's... their end-goal isn't the desturction of the legality of semi-autos. It's TOTAL DISARMAMENT.

 

Of course, however, I understand the need to be "tact" in politics. We need to crawl before we walk, or run. It'll always be a gradual growth and/or errosion of our rights.

 

In the end, we shouldn't lose sight of what the 2nd Amendment stands fo - to fight tyrannical governments and preserve our natural-born rights. So think about that next time you give your opinion on those "big, black, scary, fully-automatic assault rifles".

 

Great. But not volunteering to see what you write for me.

$500 bucks says I can mag dump an M16 or SMG with a 30 round mag and hit ten bottles faster than you can with any semiauto.

 

Or hit multiple torso targets at 25 yards than you can in the same period of time. With a mag dump.

 

I was taught to shoot as a kid. I was taught to shoot burst in the military. But I was taught to shoot FA in the military, unlike most of you military and cops.

 

If you train to shoot bursts, you train to make your weapon walk. And then they tell you that your weapon will walk more the longer your burst.

 

If you engage targets with long strings, you don't train to let your weapon walk. You train to hit targets.

 

In 2 hours I can teach the average schmoe to shoot better in full auto than a US Military Infantry that has been in Combat Arms for 20 years and about to retire.

 

It aint hard. You just never spent a good hour trying to do it. Because everybody told you it doesn't work.

 

Can I get a witness.

$500 bucks says I can mag dump an M16 or SMG with a 30 round mag and hit ten bottles faster than you can with any semiauto.

 

Or hit multiple torso targets at 25 yards than you can in the same period of time. With a mag dump.

 

I was taught to shoot as a kid. I was taught to shoot burst in the military. But I was taught to shoot FA in the military, unlike most of you military and cops.

 

If you train to shoot bursts, you train to make your weapon walk. And then they tell you that your weapon will walk more the longer your burst.

 

If you engage targets with long strings, you don't train to let your weapon walk. You train to hit targets.

 

In 2 hours I can teach the average schmoe to shoot better in full auto than a US Military Infantry that has been in Combat Arms for 20 years and about to retire.

 

It aint hard. You just never spent a good hour trying to do it. Because everybody told you it doesn't work.

 

Can I get a witness.

 

Wow..you da man... My nostrils are flared in admiration. But just keep ASSuming there sport

Kpd, not sure where the "hate" came from for mipa in your last post.

 

You 2 have been pretty much saying the same thing through the thread. Hell i basically said the same thing, w/o as much flair

but jumpin his shit is offbase IMO.

 

Yourself, mipa, and me have brought up very good FACTS and we are all on the same page i would think?

NFA is very misunderstood among civilian AND police gun owners it helps to have a NFA owner to explain the process.

Kpd, not sure where the "hate" came from for mipa in your last post.

 

You 2 have been pretty much saying the same thing through the thread. Hell i basically said the same thing, w/o as much flair

but jumpin his shit is offbase IMO.

 

Yourself, mipa, and me have brought up very good FACTS and we are all on the same page i would think?

NFA is very misunderstood among civilian AND police gun owners it helps to have a NFA owner to explain the process.

Hate?? what hate??? None at all Mr Mipa is the penultimate MachineGunner...he said so himself

Ok

My not so very politically correct take on owning full auto.

 

To be perfectly honest the intent of the second amendment was clear; to provide the "people" with the ability to resist the government if it should ever stray from the founding principles and become tyrannical. To me that would mean at a minimum access to any weapon an individual soldier would be able to carry into combat and deploy by himself. Well that ship has sailed IMHO. At this point, we would only need to be able to own full auto weapons if we intended to play by their rules. Just like during the Revolutionary War if push comes to shove and everything hits the fan we would be severely out-gunned toe to toe thus only need arms good enough to effectively ambush and take some of their arms using guerilla tactics. So would I like to own them for the fun factor, hell yea. Would I want to own them with all the bureaucratic hassle and nonsense, not really. Could I afford to feed them if I did own them, absolutely not. So full automatic weapons for me would be in the nice to have but not practical to own category. If we ever come to the point of truly needing them we just need to ensure we have the means of making some people drop them on the ground for us by surprise.

 

Like I said, not very politically correct but there it is.

My not so very politically correct take on owning full auto.

 

To be perfectly honest the intent of the second amendment was clear; to provide the "people" with the ability to resist the government if it should ever stray from the founding principles and become tyrannical. To me that would mean at a minimum access to any weapon an individual soldier would be able to carry into combat and deploy by himself. Well that ship has sailed IMHO. At this point, we would only need to be able to own full auto weapons if we intended to play by their rules. Just like during the Revolutionary War if push comes to shove and everything hits the fan we would be severely out-gunned toe to toe thus only need arms good enough to effectively ambush and take some of their arms using guerilla tactics. So would I like to own them for the fun factor, hell yea. Would I want to own them with all the bureaucratic hassle and nonsense, not really. Could I afford to feed them if I did own them, absolutely not. So full automatic weapons for me would be in the nice to have but not practical to own category. If we ever come to the point of truly needing them we just need to ensure we have the means of making some people drop them on the ground for us by surprise.

 

Like I said, not very politically correct but there it is.

 

First of all, I love your name/avatar.

 

Second: If it gets to this point, I really hope our men and women in uniform remember their oath was to the Constitution before and above all other considerations.

First of all, I love your name/avatar.

 

Second: If it gets to this point, I really hope our men and women in uniform remember their oath was to the Constitution before and above all other considerations.

 

First - Thank you, there is a subtle underlying intent there.

 

Second - That has been the theme of many of my posts recently.

 

Second: If it gets to this point, I really hope our men and women in uniform remember their oath was to the Constitution before and above all other considerations.

 

Some do. Others not so much unfortunately.

zippppp

you just lost 3 boxes of ammo $$$

Wow..you da man... My nostrils are flared in admiration.  But just keep ASSuming there sport

 

I assure you I possess no exceptional firearms skills.  It wasn't bragging about me, it was clarification of an extremely widespread misconception.  Anybody that says you can't hit anything in full auto or with mag dumps never spent enough time trying it.  And it doesn't take much. I didn't assume anything about you.  I've known or met dozens of military and cops that never spent an hour or so letting a gun run and hitting multiple targets with it.  And were surprised to see how easy it was after several mags.  You train burst, you train to let your weapon walk.  Those are facts, not assumptions.