I need some advice guys.

 

I have a stag model 2, got approx 3K to 4K rounds through it and the cam pin in the bolt has failed.

 

Second issue, I, nor anyone else that has shot this gun has been able to get groups tighter than 2" at 100 yrds. (Bad shooter, me, is eliminated because the other guys are very good shooters).

I have shot out to 400 yards with this gun hitting an 8" target consistently.

Typically shoot 5.56 Federal XM193 55grn ball ammo, I've also shot 2.23 American Eagle 50 grn varmint tip.

 

The weapon has never failed to load, fire or eject (even with the broken pin). Prior to the cam pin failure I had shot about 1K to 1.2K rounds without cleaning. I was curious to see when the weapon would start to have FTL, FTF, FTE issues. I decided to check the gun prior to a Sunday outing and found the failure.

 

I'm wondering if the failure was caused by my sonic solution cleaner, lack of cleaning, or just a faulty pin. The bolt looks fine.

 

Getting through to Stag has been a challenge but they finally sent me a warranty return slip. I also ordered replacement parts, that I have yet to get a confirmation on.

 

Here is my real question. Should I send this weapon back to Stag or just replace the broken pin? I'm afraid in todays climate that I may not get the gun back. I can deal with the accuracy issue, (non-issue?) and I'm not that concerned about replacing a $3 to $8 pin. I ordered some from Brownells too.

 

Thanks

Im just curious, but what exactly failed on the cam pin? Did it crack and break?

Cam pins fail just as bolts do. As preventative maintenance, all my bolts and cam pins are replaced at 10K rounds even if they don't show signs of wear/failure. They're cheap, just throw a new one in.

 

As for accuracy, XM193 isn't all that accurate and I've seen it turn in 2-4MOA groups. If you want to test accuracy, get some match rounds and group it to see if it's the rifle at fault. Black Hills and Federal both make sub-MOA .223 loadings so give them a try before you blame the rifle.

Please keep us updated on your progress. I'm interested to see how it works out for you.

 

How wet/dry do you typically run the AR? I generally wipe down the cam pin, firing pin, and bolt with breakfree LP before I re-assemble the BCG. They seem to be the moving parts.

 

I think the XMJ193 ball has a ballistic coefficient of about 0.250. So with muzzle velocity of 3290, 55 grain and cross-wind of 10mph for the past few days, that's aboutt 1" of windage.

 

Please keep us updated on your progress. I'm interested to see how it works out for you.

 

How wet/dry do you typically run the AR? I generally wipe down the cam pin, firing pin, and bolt with breakfree LP before I re-assemble the BCG. They seem to be the moving parts.

 

I think the XMJ193 ball has a ballistic coefficient of about 0.250. So with muzzle velocity of 3290, 55 grain and cross-wind of 10mph for the past few days, that's aboutt 1" of windage.

 

 

It's more than just the bc of the bullet that effects accuracy. Consistency in powder load, bullet weight, grumpy tension, seating depth, case volume...

Im just curious, but what exactly failed on the cam pin? Did it crack and break?

 

It split in half through the hole that the firing pin passes through.

 

Think I'll ever get the gun back if I send it to Stag?

Cam pins fail just as bolts do. As preventative maintenance, all my bolts and cam pins are replaced at 10K rounds even if they don't show signs of wear/failure. They're cheap, just throw a new one in.

 

As for accuracy, XM193 isn't all that accurate and I've seen it turn in 2-4MOA groups. If you want to test accuracy, get some match rounds and group it to see if it's the rifle at fault. Black Hills and Federal both make sub-MOA .223 loadings so give them a try before you blame the rifle.

 

Thanks for the reply. Are saying it's not an uncommon failure? Think the sonic cleaner has anything to do with it?

 

I'll wait for the brownells cam and shoot some of the ammo you suggested.

Please keep us updated on your progress. I'm interested to see how it works out for you.

 

How wet/dry do you typically run the AR? I generally wipe down the cam pin, firing pin, and bolt with breakfree LP before I re-assemble the BCG. They seem to be the moving parts.

 

I spray the parts with G96 and wipe off the excess with a rag that is wet with the g96. I use a q-tip in the tight spots. I had alot of trouble with a 10/22 and Marlin 60 prior to using this stuff.

 

Thanks for the reply

It split in half through the hole that the firing pin passes through.

 

Think I'll ever get the gun back if I send it to Stag?

 

 

a new member on this board had the exact same thing happen to his stag, but well within 100rnds of being brand new. do NOT send the gun back, theres no reason to. you can call and ask for a new pin, or new BCG. if its under warranty they should handle it. the other guy got a new BCG right from stag. but, considering the crisis we're in now, who knows if theyll be able to get a part out to you within this year.

 

id suggest letting them know, but go on your own and try and find a new pin anyway

I've put ~180 rounds in about 3 trips through my stag. Cleaned it before the first shot and after every trip. Haven't seen anything like that.

But if I do I'll let you know.

I spray the parts with G96 and wipe off the excess with a rag that is wet with the g96. I use a q-tip in the tight spots. I had alot of trouble with a 10/22 and Marlin 60 prior to using this stuff.

 

Thanks for the reply

 

G96 is great stuff and is my main cleaner/protectant and light lube. I clean with it, then let it sit, and wipe off. It lubes OK for light duty, but for areas that see lots of hard use you will want a type of grease that stays put. TW25B teflon grease is a favorite, or my favorite that is cheap and IMO just as effective is Magnalube. A light coating is all that is needed, and works well for key areas that take a beating, like the bolt cam bin and bolt locking lugs. Also works extremely well on SA pistol slide rails, fire control groups, etc.

G96 is great stuff and is my main cleaner/protectant and light lube. I clean with it, then let it sit, and wipe off. It lubes OK for light duty, but for areas that see lots of hard use you will want a type of grease that stays put. TW25B teflon grease is a favorite, or my favorite that is cheap and IMO just as effective is Magnalube. A light coating is all that is needed, and works well for key areas that take a beating, like the bolt cam bin and bolt locking lugs. Also works extremely well on SA pistol slide rails, fire control groups, etc.

 

Thanks Dan, Magnalube it shall be in those areas.

Replace the part yourself. It will be easier, quicker, and less of a hassle. Even if things weren't crazy I wouldn't send it back for that...

Replace the part yourself. It will be easier, quicker, and less of a hassle. Even if things weren't crazy I wouldn't send it back for that...

 

I'm more concerned about the grouping, but as I said I'm hitting out at 400, just not tight groups. I'm gonna try some match ammo and see if that makes a difference. I'll wait and see what happens in the next 6 mos. I'd really be pissed if I had trouble getting it back. The $4 pin is no big deal............. except no one has em in stock.

 

Thanks

Speaking of Stag, their website status was recently changed to ..."Currently we have approximately two years of backorders for rifles, upper halves, and lower receivers." Holy crap.

If you're going to keep it for awhile, you might as well order the field repair kit.

http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=20_35&products_id=274

If you're going to keep it for awhile, you might as well order the field repair kit.

http://www.stagarms....products_id=274

 

Thanks for the link Drew,

 

I did order a bunch of stuff but no confirmation. Needless to say they pissed me off. I can understand a failure but thery're response time and organization is lacking.

 

I think I'm going to call a couple other manufacturers tomorrow and if they answer the phone concerning warranty or parts orders then I'll be buying my next piece of hardware from them.

I didn't get a confirmation when I ordered from them last. It just showed up in about 2 weeks.

You might consider the POF roller cam pin. Oops -- Never mind. Out of stock.

Honestly Stag is known to have pretty good customer service. There is a TON of places who are normally good that just plain suck right now.

 

As for the grouping, what optic are you using?

I didn't get a confirmation when I ordered from them last. It just showed up in about 2 weeks.

 

So there is hope....

They should put you on their customer service payroll for helping me out.

 

You might consider the POF roller cam pin. Oops -- Never mind. Out of stock.

 

Who sells POF?

 

Honestly Stag is known to have pretty good customer service. There is a TON of places who are normally good that just plain suck right now.

 

Thats what the gun shop said, thats why I bought it. Thats a fact, hopefully right now is'nt for too much longer.

 

As for the grouping, what optic are you using?

 

OEM iron sights.

OR

Nikon 3-9x40 p-223 with the m-223 mount.

OR

NCstar 3-9x42 Mark III Tactical, illuminated mil dot and red dot sight on an Ncstar quick mount.

 

The mounts I use are rock solid.

 

What I probally should have included is that my buddy has the same model gun with some cheap ass $10 scope he bought at the pawn shop. We can shoot tighter groups with his setup vs. mine. That makes him happy, but not me so much. He just smiles.......

 

 

I'm more concerned about the grouping, but as I said I'm hitting out at 400, just not tight groups. I'm gonna try some match ammo and see if that makes a difference. I'll wait and see what happens in the next 6 mos. I'd really be pissed if I had trouble getting it back. The $4 pin is no big deal............. except no one has em in stock.

 

Thanks

 

Ebay has a few

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=ar+cam+pin&_osacat=0&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=+cam+pin&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

 

 

And Apex shows in stock ( used though)

https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/49/products_id/1372

 

Thanks for the reply. Are saying it's not an uncommon failure? Think the sonic cleaner has anything to do with it?

 

I'll wait for the brownells cam and shoot some of the ammo you suggested.

 

Correct, not an uncommon failure. Cam pins break just like bolts do. I wouldn't think a sonic cleaner would affect it since it's steel and not aluminum.

Ive never personally used them but from what I read NCstar quality is suspect and hitting steel with irons at 400 yards with 2moa sounds pretty damn good to me.

 

Nikon is supposed to be good stuff though. Do your groups improve with that one?

Ive never personally used them but from what I read NCstar quality is suspect and hitting steel with irons at 400 yards with 2moa sounds pretty damn good to me.

 

Nikon is supposed to be good stuff though. Do your groups improve with that one?

 

I was shooting 400 with the nikon but it wasn't 2" groups, buy I was hitting an 8" plate consistently. Got the ncstar recently and shot to 200 yds with that hitting 3" round spinners. I'm happy with the ncstar so far, and my Marine nephew loved it. Then again he loved shooting it with irons.

 

I finally got Stag on the phone today and after I put my lipstick on I got the guy to send (1) cam pin.

 

Asked him when the rest of my order was coming, (crickets...............), Answer : 6 weeks, maybe.

 

Also Brownells doinked me too. Said my order got deleted. Yeah well, they'll be the last ones I use for a source for anything.

found a pof roller cam pin on gbroker last week.

found a pof roller cam pin on gbroker last week.

 

Thanks P4,

 

I just went on there and there's a regular cam pin , firing pin, and the cotter pin $39 + ship. I will get it if Stag drops the ball.

 

Did you have a failure or just upgraded to the roller cam?