So if I read this right I can shoot someone for breaking into my car?

 

C. The discharge of any handgun or firearm by any person in protection of himself, members of his family or his guests, or in protection of his property.

 

that would go over real well

if the car is in your driveway or in your garage, perhaps (and by perhaps, i mean really "maybe").. if its parked on the street, you might be hard pressed to win that one..

 

However, IANAL, so....

Can you cite the document you got that line from?

When I asked the captain about the towns discharge laws this is the link they provided.

http://ecode360.com/10138957

That might be the Township Ordenance but the state is I believe different......No shooting for theft of personal property in NJ.

That might be the Township Ordenance but the state is I believe different......No shooting for theft of personal property in NJ.

Can you site your reference?

Did see it......I'll check.

Use of Force in Defense of Premises or Personal Property

New Jersey self defense gives a person the right to use force against another to protect real property – home - but first the defendant must be in possession or control of the premises or licensed or privileged to be there.

In addition, the defendant must reasonably believe that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission of a criminal trespass – unlicensed or unprivileged entry – or against a person committing a more serious offense.

Prior to using force the defendant must request the intruder to stop interfering with the property unless the request is useless or dangerous to himself or another to make the request or if substantial harm would be done to the property before the request can effectively be made.

A trespasser cannot be expelled by the use of force if the defendant knows that the exclusion will expose him to a substantial danger of serious bodily harm.

Deadly force may be used to repel a person attempting or actually committing arson, burglary, robbery, or other criminal theft or property destruction.

However, either of two sets of circumstances must be present before deadly force can be used for the protection of premises.

 

 

 

First, the occupant reasonably believes that the person against whom it is employed is using or threatening to use deadly force in the occupant’s presence.

Or second, a person reasonably believes he could terminate or prevent the commission of a crime but if he used less than deadly force he would expose himself or another to a substantial danger of bodily harm.

Same standards apply to protecting personal property except there is never a justification to use deadly force in defense of personal property – no justification for shooting at thief attempting to steal one’s automobile.

 

http://www.newjersey-legal-guide.com/New-Jersey-Self-Defense.html

Contradicts your statement!

from what i could read there, you have to ask them nicely to stop robbing you.. if they don't or they come after you, then you can use "deadly force"

Bottom lines......never a justification for using deadly force for personal property....

Bottom lines......never a justification for using deadly force for personal property....

while I don't disagree with you I also don't see where it states you can't! It just has qualifiers!

OK............just thought I'd point out what I read.

OK............just thought I'd point out what I read.

I appreciate it. Clearly we as a group are beaten down so hard that we don't even recognize what we can legally do. I don't read any ambiguity in any of the law. If someone was stealing my car and I told them to stop and they hit the gas and tried to run me down I now know I can handle it.

Your NJ castle doctrine will not protect you for that.

What Castle Doctrine would that be........?

I appreciate it. Clearly we as a group are beaten down so hard that we don't even recognize what we can legally do. I don't read any ambiguity in any of the law. If someone was stealing my car and I told them to stop and they hit the gas and tried to run me down I now know I can handle it.

 

That's how I read it as well, altho I wouldn't do that for a car. For my HOME, yes.

 

Oh- and if you keep HPs in your defense weapon, not sure about having those outside your house, or off your property (if you're standing in the road firing at your fleeing car)?

Your NJ castle doctrine will not protect you for that.

Explain! OR site a reference. Clearly all of the laws we are seeing are different.

Anyone look at the first part of theNJ state constitution? Do so and that's good enough for me!

1. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/3-4.html

c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

 

(2) A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and:

 

(a) The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or

 

(b) The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so.

 

(3) An actor employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing or doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

If someone breaks into your house while you are home is it not reasonable to think that your or your families life is in danger?

You have a duty to retreat in NJ to your home or away from danger. The rest makes no difference. You shoot someone outside your house you better have proof the guy was trying to kill you.

 

The LAW is whats important, you follow the law, the law follows NJ constitution. You CAN protect your property in NJ, just not with a weapon.

A duty yes but with common sense. I wouldn't shoot anyone unless I thought my or my families life was in danger. If they are coming at you with a bat I don't think running away is the answer as it will not prevent the attack.

Real world example would be, Someone breaking into my car in my driveway wich is 100 feet into my property I can go outside with my gun to protect my property. A. I can hold them there until police arrive. B. He flees and I do nothing. C. He moves towards me with an object in his hand and I open fire. Based on all the law I have read this is all acceptable. Show me otherwise.

a man chasing you with a baseball bat.... a person advancing you with a weapon does not allow for retreat and thus no duty exists.

Real world example would be, Someone breaking into my car in my driveway wich is 100 feet into my property I can go outside with my gun to protect my property. A. I can hold them there until police arrive. B. He flees and I do nothing. C. He moves towards me with an object in his hand and I open fire. Based on all the law I have read this is all acceptable. Show me otherwise.

2C:3-4. Use of force in self-protection.

 

2C:3-4. Use of Force in Self-Protection. a. Use of force justifiable for protection of the person. Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 2C:3-9, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.

 

b. Limitations on justifying necessity for use of force.

 

(1) The use of force is not justifiable under this section:

 

(a) To resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer in the performance of his duties, although the arrest is unlawful, unless the peace officer employs unlawful force to effect such arrest; or

 

(b) To resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:

 

(i) The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest;

 

(ii) The actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recaption justified by section 2C:3-6; or

 

(iii) The actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm.

 

(2) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm; nor is it justifiable if:

 

(a) The actor, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or

 

(b) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

 

(i) The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor; and

 

(ii) A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.

 

(3) Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

 

c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

 

(2) A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and:

 

(a) The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or

 

(b) The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so.

 

(3) An actor employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing or doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

I was talking with Ed from EDS Gun Shop i asked him that not to long ago, he told me that "you cant shoot (discharge) from your house out to your car where the person who is breaking into your stuff". so pretty much yell at them say you have a weapon and that you have called the police.

 

if im wrong please correct me