Perfect day for the shooting yesterday. Took my daughters and a friend and we went off to shoot. Everything was going fine, that is until I got a major jam. I had just put 5 rounds of my buddy's reload ammo in the mag and my daughter was going to try the AR for her first time. I load the mag in, pull back on the charging handle, loads round, she fires, goes bang. She goes to fire next round and nothing. I take the rifle back from her, put the rifle on safe and try to clear jam. Remove mag, tried to pull charging handle back and it will not budge an inch. I don't know if it was an overfeed over the bolt or where it was jammed. I could not see anything from the mag well or the eject port. I had read somewhere to try to mortar the rifle when you have a jam like the one I had. Seemed like my only solution. Honestly, I really didnt want to do it because of the safety factor and the damage issue. Placed a towel on the bench and while bringing the rifle stock down, kept pulling on the charging handle. It released right away. Head of the bullet was rounded over I assume from the jam. Is there a better, less drastic way to clear a jam like that which will not cause damage to me, other shooters or the firearm? Everything else fired fine though the rifle except the reloads, which I handed back to my buddy to use in his bolt action. I don't really want to do that again if there is a better way to clear that type of jam.

Mortaring is the way I was taught to manage that.

What was the OAL on the ammo? I had the same exact issue with dummy rounds that were longer than spec. I'm thinking the bullet wasn't seated deep enough.

Same as Nick. Chris Fry showed a technique (happened on my weapon actually) point in safe direction, brace yourself in a squat like position, grab charging handle and slam stock into your thigh while pulling the charging handle back. Left me with a bruise with it works. Primer may have been too high on the reload.

Mortaring is the way I was taught to manage that.

 

me too

Be careful though if you have a pinned plastic stock, that is not pinned at its shortest, you can actually break the stock or the pin. The usual thing to do in the free world is to collapse your stock to its shortest before you mortar that rifle, but in NJ that kinda doesn't work so hot.

I bet you 5 bucks he just shoulder bumps his ammo for his rifle and they wouldn't work in yours causing the jam

Sounds like your buddies cases were only neck sized and fire formed to his chamber. A lot of bolt guys reload this way.

 

Molon Labe

 

 

His ammo is only for his bolt action. He doesn't have a semi in .223. I didn't get the chance to go as far as checking the OAL of his rounds. I guess the best way to shoot reloads is to shoot your own. I don't know exactly what process he goes thru during his reloads but I think I'll let him keep the ones he has.

I checked the stock and the pin for any damage. I did not see any. There is a 1/8" dia pin in there so it should be strong enough to take one serious bump.

Thanks for the help guys. I just wanted to make sure I had the right procedure.

Id bet the farm on him only neck sizing for the bolt action. The cases of the rounds you were shooting were actually fire formed to his chamber. If you reload for a semi auto it is important to full length resize all the brass.

...If you reload for a semi auto it is important to full length resize all the brass.

And then you MUST measure/trim-if-necessary the resized case.

Is there a better, less drastic way to clear a jam like that which will not cause damage to me, other shooters or the firearm?

 

saw this on youtube:

Wait, I am mistaken, isn't the preferred method to throw the gun? (Sorry, couldn't resist)

 

 

saw this on youtube:

The charging handle was fully forward as well as the bolt. I could not get it to move back at all. I did not try the bolt carrier release button. That may have helped to inch it back. I'll keep that in mind if there is a next time but hopefully it doesn't happen again. Thanks for the input.

Wait, I am mistaken, isn't the preferred method to throw the gun? (Sorry, couldn't resist)

 

Wait, I am mistaken, isn't the preferred method to throw the gun? (Sorry, couldn't resist)

I did trying throwing the gun but only once. It landed barrel first but the bolt didn't release, so I banged the stock on the table instead. That got 'er. Guess the stock end would be preferred over barrel end.

I did trying throwing the gun but only once. It landed barrel first but the bolt didn't release, so I banged the stock on the table instead. That got 'er. Guess the stock end would be preferred over barrel end.

��

 

Wait...what?

I was chalking it up to he was joking and knew about the "Throw the gun" post that's becoming infamous here. Wait, you were joking right OP?

Sorry........ Only kidding guys. I thought the smiley face might have brought that out. I may be crazy but not that crazy so my kids tell me. Don't know about the "throwing the gun" post.

I have never had any hesitance at slamming the stock to clear a jam like you described... these are guns.. in some instances similar to those used in combat.. you should not break it by doing that..

I have never had any hesitance at slamming the stock to clear a jam like you described... these are guns.. in some instances similar to those used in combat.. you should not break it by doing that..

 

If you are using a gun built to the Technical Data Package, which includes a mil-spec receiver extension including an adjustable stock that you can fully collapse to help support the receiver extension when mortaring to clear this malfunction type than I agree.

 

However, when using a receiver made to commercial specs or to mil spec tolerances but with commercial (inferior) materials, you can throw the "made for combat" comparison out the window for you are now comparing apples to something that only looks like an apple.

 

Since in NJ, the ability to collapse a stock is a no go, unless you have a purpose built and designed fixed stock (such as an ACE, A1, A2, Sully, PRS, etc) or a carbine stock pinned all the way closed on a mil spec receiver extension you have great potential to run into problems. Because of this, having the stronger mils spec extension can make the difference between clearing you malfunction and dead lining your gun.

 

I have seen many broken and chipped stocks (which may be uncomfortable to shoot, but the gun will still work) and many bent or broken receiver extension (which is a total show stopper) occur when mortaring a rifle to clear this type of malfunction. The TDP is the TDP for a reason. It works and is produces a weapon that is built for the harshest conditions. It mandates not just tolerances but manufacturing processes, construction materials and QC checks for every part of the gun. Ignore them at your peril, but don't get pissed if you subscribed to the "parts is parts" philosophy and purchased a cheaper - both in quality and price - receiver extension/BCG/rifle and it does not perform to your expected standards.

 

Difference between a mil spec and commercial spec receiver extensions:

Never shoot other people's reloads.

 

 

If you are using a gun built to the Technical Data Package, which includes a mil-spec receiver extension including an adjustable stock that you can fully collapse to help support the receiver extension when mortaring to clear this malfunction type than I agree.

 

However, when using a receiver made to commercial specs or to mil spec tolerances but with commercial (inferior) materials, you can throw the "made for combat" comparison out the window for you are now comparing apples to something that only looks like an apple.

 

Since in NJ, the ability to collapse a stock is a no go, unless you have a purpose built and designed fixed stock (such as an ACE, A1, A2, Sully, PRS, etc) or a carbine stock pinned all the way closed on a mil spec receiver extension you have great potential to run into problems. Because of this, having the stronger mils spec extension can make the difference between clearing you malfunction and dead lining your gun.

 

I have seen many broken and chipped stocks (which may be uncomfortable to shoot, but the gun will still work) and many bent or broken receiver extension (which is a total show stopper) occur when mortaring a rifle to clear this type of malfunction. The TDP is the TDP for a reason. It works and is produces a weapon that is built for the harshest conditions. It mandates not just tolerances but manufacturing processes, construction materials and QC checks for every part of the gun. Ignore them at your peril, but don't get pissed if you subscribed to the "parts is parts" philosophy and purchased a cheaper - both in quality and price - receiver extension/BCG/rifle and it does not perform to your expected standards.

 

Difference between a mil spec and commercial spec receiver extensions:

Checked up on my rifle's specs. It's a Spikes Tactical.

From Spikes forum:

 

 

All standard ST parts are mil-spec components and meet or exceed the M4 TDP. ST buffer tubes are machined from 7075 series aluminum and has MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 hardcoat anodizing covered by MIL-L-46010 dry film lube.

 

Covers me except for the NJ compliant pinned stock. Thanks for the response. It made me go verify what I have.

 

 

 

 

So is the conclusion that we should still be mortaring our rifles in NJ given that most of us have the stock at a position other than fully closed given this sort of jam? Or is there a better way to manage this?

If the bolt is completely forward and you're able to separate the upper from the lower, you could try using some kind of wooden spike or piece of wood and hammer to try to drive the carrier out through the rear. You would have to support the upper receiver in a vise or somewhere secure so you can really go at it. There was a post about this on AR15.com which I cant find right now, but that's what the guy ended up doing when mortating didnt even work. I believe the firin pin retaining pin somehow got out and jammed the carrier in the forward position.

I think it was the ammo. Do you have a photo of the case? Is the primer flattened badly? Is the brass really scraped?, it could have been sizing which would cause excessive pressure. This happened to me once with my AR grendel.

 

You shouldn't shoot ammo loaded for a bolt in a semi auto. Also I'd never handed handloaded ammo to one of my kids, even if I loaded it myself.

 

There is a certain risk in reloaded ammo.

So is the conclusion that we should still be mortaring our rifles in NJ given that most of us have the stock at a position other than fully closed given this sort of jam? Or is there a better way to manage this?

 

Well, or you could use a A1/A2 fixed stock to begin with. It doesn't even have to be the military one, most of the aftermarket fixed length stocks would be just fine. I always wonder why people of average height opt for the pinned collapsible stocks when something A1 length would fit them fine. I can see the reason when you wear bulky body armor but most of us don't have that need. Not only do they end up pinning their stocks at the same length anyway, but then you have the shorter recoil system, less ability to clear jams like this one, you have a castle nut to worry about, you have NJ laws to worry about, etc.

I was shooting Tulammo on two different occasions. The first time I could not pull the charging handle back to clear the round. After several good hard tugs it cleared. The second time I was shooting indoors and it happened again. The charging handle wouldn't budge. Had to take it to the smith for 47$ to clear the chamber. Its seems that steel case ammo when heated during the ignition process expands and does not retract to it's original size thus the jamming. Another factor I was told was there is a lacquer on some of these casing that can build up on your receiver thus exacerbating the problem. Clean your gun VERY WELL, and don't shoot the steel case or cheap ammo!

 

Will be disposing of my left over Tulammo... Buy cheap-get cheap!

Well, or you could use a A1/A2 fixed stock to begin with. It doesn't even have to be the military one, most of the aftermarket fixed length stocks would be just fine. I always wonder why people of average height opt for the pinned collapsible stocks when something A1 length would fit them fine. I can see the reason when you wear bulky body armor but most of us don't have that need. Not only do they end up pinning their stocks at the same length anyway, but then you have the shorter recoil system, less ability to clear jams like this one, you have a castle nut to worry about, you have NJ laws to worry about, etc.

 

YUP! i run the RRA operater A2 stock ony all my rifles, takes the headache out of everything that's NJ. No castle nut, rifle buffer system(no mil spec/commercial issues), no pins. Only issue is i can't use a receiver mounted sling mount for a 1 point sling. But the stock itself has a couple mounting holes.

 

Oh yeah, and it comes in PINK!

 

 

YUP! i run the RRA operater A2 stock ony all my rifles, takes the headache out of everything that's NJ. No castle nut, rifle buffer system(no mil spec/commercial issues), no pins. Only issue is i can't use a receiver mounted sling mount for a 1 point sling. But the stock itself has a couple mounting holes.

 

Oh yeah, and it comes in PINK!

 

Tangodown PR-16 should do the trick for you.

http://tangodown.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=39