NJ law defined the device as illegal if it can hold more than 15 rounds...

NJ law defined modifications that temporarily adjust the capacity as insufficient..

 

this literal reading to me means the following... it is illegal to have a magazine that holds more than 15 rounds in NJ at ANY time (unless you are an FFL, correct?)... having the mag blocked temporarily down to 15... having the mag taken apart... etc.. are all temporary conditions.. therefore they do not satisfy the disclaimer about permanently altering the mag...

 

the idea is this...

you can not have any large capacity mag ever.. the ONLY time a large capacity magazine stops being one is if it is permanently altered... permanently altered is unfortunately not defined... so you have to go with logic... logically there are many conditions that are not permanent... a simple wooden block... disassembled.. etc.. is obviously not permanent.. the idea is to disallow large capacity magazines.. so if you use modified ones you are acting at your own risk... when I lived in NJ I always just got my mags from a NJ dealer.... doing that transferred the risk to them..

 

See my question above.

This is not my opinion, found it on a NJ criminal attorney's web site. I would assume it true, it is afterall on the internet...

 

Large Capacity Magazines: this is defined as any container, body or other chamber that is capable of providing over fifteen rounds of ammunition continuously and directly to a semi-automatic firearm.

This crime is punishable in the fourth degree.

A conviction of a fourth degree crime imposes a sentence of up to 18 months in prison.

 

Now in my opinion, the body would be considered a magazine whether you had a spring or floor plate in it.

 

The parts of a 30 round magazine are not capable of providing over fifteen rounds of ammunition continuously and directly to a semi-automatic firearm if do don't have all the parts in your possesion. If I don't have the floor plate or the spring or the follower, the remaining parts are not capable of being assembled into a functioning magazine.

Bet ya I can make that mag work without the factory floorplate.

 

I mentioned it before but look up the definition of criminal conspiracy.

Bet ya I can make that mag work without the factory floorplate.

 

I mentioned it before but look up the definition of criminal conspiracy.

 

This is not a conspiracy. I have absolutely no plans of buying any type of magazine build kit, Just trying to understand the law, which isn't easy in NJ.

 

 

The parts of a 30 round magazine are not capable of providing over fifteen rounds of ammunition continuously and directly to a semi-automatic firearm if do don't have all the parts in your possesion. If I don't have the floor plate or the spring or the follower, the remaining parts are not capable of being assembled into a functioning magazine.

 

A diassembled 30 round mag is still a 30 round mag... The inability to feed 30 rounds without being reassembled is a temporary condition and thus does not satisfy the qualifier for modified large cap mags... Sure you could argue that you just have the mag bodies and not the rest of the parts... But what's the point... Just have them modified by an FFL or do them out of state...

I disagree with the FAQ a heck of a lot more than you.  But, unfortunately, it's still sadly the truth

I understand you are trying to play devils advocate here but what is the point in having the components to build a standard capacity magazine if you can never legally make it functional in this state?

 

For competitions out of state? Or if you're a police officer and you want to keep some magazines at home.

While I appreciate Vlads efforts, if you look at it with more granularity, there is a significant difference between an un-assembled magazine, and an assembled 30 round magazine, or an assembled 30 round magazine with a temporary block (wooden or otherwise). While logically, his argument is sound (that a disassembled 30 round magazine is just an unblocked magazine or in a temporary state), legally, by the definitions supplies by the statutes, it is false. They are not comparable. Again, I give him props, the logic is sound, but legally, they do not follow the definitions.

 

I think the best answer given was by Old Dog. I think splitting them between two owned properties in close proximity is the best idea.

While I appreciate Vlads efforts, if you look at it with more granularity, there is a significant difference between an un-assembled magazine, and an assembled 30 round magazine, or an assembled 30 round magazine with a temporary block (wooden or otherwise). While logically, his argument is sound (that a disassembled 30 round magazine is just an unblocked magazine or in a temporary state), legally, by the definitions supplies by the statutes, it is false. They are not comparable. Again, I give him props, the logic is sound, but legally, they do not follow the definitions.

 

I think the best answer given was by Old Dog. I think splitting them between two owned properties in close proximity is the best idea.

 

please.. explain the difference...

 

A large capacity magazine is illegal...

A large capacity magazine that has been blocked down to 15 is illegal...

 

A large capacity magazine that has been blocked and welded down to 15 is legal...

 

illustrating that the scope of the law is obvious... and that is to disallow them in any way... they allow the existence of large capacity mags ONLY if they have been modified permanently, thus no longer a large capacity magazine.....

 

 

it says.. illegal unless permanently modified...

taking the mag apart does not change the fact that it is a gun magazine.. lol I understand the angle you are trying to use.. but I suggest you seek legal counsel and ask them the following...

 

"would it be wise to rest my freedom on the fact that a mag that has been temporarily disassembled can not feed ammunition while it is disassembled?"

I am almost certain I know the answer..

 

the most wise thing to do would be to just follow the laws in NJ... or move to a free state if they drive you crazy enough.... what good is having them.. you cant use them?

taking it apart is not permanent..

While I appreciate Vlads efforts, if you look at it with more granularity, there is a significant difference between an un-assembled magazine, and an assembled 30 round magazine, or an assembled 30 round magazine with a temporary block (wooden or otherwise). While logically, his argument is sound (that a disassembled 30 round magazine is just an unblocked magazine or in a temporary state), legally, by the definitions supplies by the statutes, it is false. They are not comparable. Again, I give him props, the logic is sound, but legally, they do not follow the definitions.

 

I think the best answer given was by Old Dog. I think splitting them between two owned properties in close proximity is the best idea.

 

a blocked and disassembled mag are identical per NJ wording...

neither have the immediate ability to feed more than 15..

but both are prohibited due to the capability to accept more than 15...

which is why a permanent modification is required..

NJ doesn't follow or understand its own laws. I asked the NJSP a question about adding additional requirements to applying for a pistol purchase permit. They told me they forwarded it to the Office of the Attorney General, as they felt the OAG would be able to answer my question. I then received an email from the OAG stating they were forwarding my question to NJSP firearms division, as they felt they would be able to answer my question. Enough said.

 

Why would I want to order a rebuild kit? So I don't have to pay someone twice what the magazine actually cost to put in a pop rivet and apply some epoxy to the baseplate.

NJ doesn't follow or understand its own laws. I asked the NJSP a question about adding additional requirements to applying for a pistol purchase permit. They told me they forwarded it to the Office of the Attorney General, as they felt the OAG would be able to answer my question. I then received an email from the OAG stating they were forwarding my question to NJSP firearms division, as they felt they would be able to answer my question. Enough said.

 

Why would I want to order a rebuild kit? So I don't have to pay someone twice what the magazine actually cost to put in a pop rivet and apply some epoxy to the baseplate.

 

even if mag kits were legally.. the mag would technically be illegal at some point during pinning it..

So no one has hit it yet.

 

Constructive Intent/Possession applies to Weapons (AR15 upper and lower, 'readily assembled into...')

 

I have not seen anything that applies to magazines. Magazines are not weapons.

 

I appreciate Pizza Bob's input, however, 2C:39-9h does not apply. We are not talking high capacity magazines (read description of high capacity magazines). We are talking about parts/pieces to assemble. Readily capable of feeding nothing.

 

I think the safest bet, for me, is to have all the parts in baggies, and keep all of the floor-plates, or springs, or some critical part, at another location (in-laws, who have zero gun stuff), in another bag. Although not convenient, it is walking distance...

 

p3

 

Do what you want...if you get jammed up, dont come bitching here

If you have all the parts in your possession at any point its illegal.

Absolutely insane. So we have laws which punish without INTENT of a crime......

 

The concept of criminal conspiracy is well ingrained in the law. This, of course, is for crimes people intend to commit. People complain about law enforcement not being proactive but complain when someone is charged with conspiracy.

Want to get real crazy? Wait until we have the arguments about magazines which can be used for multiple calibers... OR the good ol' debate on semi-autos and shorty shotgun shells.

Here you guys go using logic again!

Want to get real crazy? Wait until we have the arguments about magazines which can be used for multiple calibers... OR the good ol' debate on semi-autos and shorty shotgun shells.

 

Yep...

Do a search, we have discussed this over the past 4 years. =)

 

Constructive possession.

 

 

Is there any citeable law or case law to support this?

 

I'm wondering also. I did a search. I came up with people saying the same thing....without any references.

 

Sure you could argue that you just have the mag bodies and not the rest of the parts... But what's the point... Just have them modified by an FFL or do them out of state...

 

Why? What's the point? Who cares. Is it illegal? Let's talk about transportation laws and whether you should or shouldn't separate the ammo from the firearms, or transport with loaded magazines. But what's the point...

Why? What's the point? Who cares. Is it illegal? Let's talk about transportation laws and whether you should or shouldn't separate the ammo from the firearms, or transport with loaded magazines. But what's the point...

 

the point is the law specifically spells out the requirements for transportation.. some people transport ammo separate.. some transport it in the same case.. it is inconvenient to carry more gun cases and boxes than I needed so for me separating them was annoying..

 

with the magazine issue..there is literally no point...

the law says you can not own a high capacity magazine....

the law says temporary changes to the magazine do not change the fact that it is a large capacity mag..

 

you can't even argue that the reason you want kits is to pin them yourself.. since at some point during the process of making it you would have a magazine that is not permanently altered thus illegal..

 

the only reason someone would want a bunch of disassembled 30 round mags is to try to skirt the law,,,, to keep them around "just in case".... and that is why I say you are only looking for problems..

look I dont agree with the laws.. thats why I moved... I am just stating that as the law is written.. you can not have large capacity mags.. the law specifically says that a mag that has been temporarily blocked OR modified (vague language) is STILL a large capacity magazine..

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

it would seem to me, that as convoluted as our laws here are, in this case, if you want the standard capacity mags, then keep them at an out of state residence. i say this, 'cause it almost seems that quite a few of you have homes across the river in the free world.

 

that said.....it's a stupid law that is impossible to enforce, unless they're gonna go in every gun owners home and check.

it would seem to me, that as convoluted as our laws here are, in this case, if you want the standard capacity mags, then keep them at an out of state residence. i say this, 'cause it almost seems that quite a few of you have homes across the river in the free world.

 

that said.....it's a stupid law that is impossible to enforce, unless they're gonna go in every gun owners home and check.

 

they wont go check.. there are probably thousands of "large capacity" mags scattered across the state.. there are likely some in the homes of people you know...

 

the only time it will even become an issue is if the police enter your home for something else and stumble across them.. that is normally when things like that become an issue.. the NJSP is not going to start raiding homes looking for mags that have been illegal for years..

 

my point is simply that the law to me sounds very clear... and the intention of the law IS extremely clear..

they dont want you to have them... they find them.. and they will probably charge you..

they wont go check.. there are probably thousands of "large capacity" mags scattered across the state.. there are likely some in the homes of people you know...

 

the only time it will even become an issue is if the police enter your home for something else and stumble across them.. that is normally when things like that become an issue.. the NJSP is not going to start raiding homes looking for mags that have been illegal for years..

 

my point is simply that the law to me sounds very clear... and the intention of the law IS extremely clear..

they dont want you to have them... they find them.. and they will probably charge you..

 

If someone who has high cap mags was stupid enough to let them in and and consent to a search without a warrent, yes I think if discovered and identified as such then the charges would stick. If they had a search warrent for somthing else not pertaining to illegal capacity magazines they would not be admisible in court. However, would they still try to charge you with it; most likely.

If someone who has high cap mags was stupid enough to let them in and and consent to a search without a warrent, yes I think if discovered and identified as such then the charges would stick. If they had a search warrent for somthing else not pertaining to illegal capacity magazines they would not be admisible in court. However, would they still try to charge you with it; most likely.

 

I have wondered what would happen if someone from free state with a list of the anti gun NJ legislators mailed each of them a high capacity magazine.

I have wondered what would happen if someone from free state with a list of the anti gun NJ legislators mailed each of them a high capacity magazine.

 

LOLz

I have wondered what would happen if someone from free state with a list of the anti gun NJ legislators mailed each of them a high capacity magazine.

 

That's some funny stuff