Scenario:

I am coming home from range and you pull me over. I am transporting my guns legally and have broken no laws. You ask if I have weapons in the car and I say no. Somehow you come to the conclusion there is a gun in the car. Will you arrest me and try to have me convicted under 18USC1001? These are my legally owned and transported guns. My reason for saying no to your ? is that I have my Saiga in the car and I don't know if you will look at it and say it is an illegal AK47 and arrest me for having an assault weapon. Even though it is not illegal and was purchased by an FFL here in NJ. I then would have an arrest on my record and have to go through all the trouble that came with it. The same result could happen if I said yes to your question. I assume if I did you would want to check them out.

 

BLF

Why lie? Because I don;t know if the LEO that pulled me over knows the laws. Will he or she see my Saiga and instantly arrest me? I know you probably wouldn't becuase you know what a Saiga is. But I can;t assume they all do. Is there a law that says I have to tell you the truth?

Of all the police interactions on a daily basis you only hear about the negatives yet you naively believe this is how they all go. Ignorance

"Sorry sir, my lawyer told me never to answer questions when he is not present."

 

You can do that. Having your lawyer present is a right you have if you are being investigated for a criminal violation. The cop in NJ can arrest you for any violation of Title 39 (yes you can get arrested for a red light, speeding, or parking by a fire hydrant), tow your car, and make you post bail.

 

 

That being said, it still seems to happen pretty efficiently at all levels of state and federal government.

 

Please relate the last 5 times the police screwed you.

Scenario:

I am coming home from range and you pull me over. I am transporting my guns legally and have broken no laws. You ask if I have weapons in the car and I say no. Somehow you come to the conclusion there is a gun in the car. Will you arrest me and try to have me convicted under 18USC1001? These are my legally owned and transported guns. My reason for saying no to your ? is that I have my Saiga in the car and I don't know if you will look at it and say it is an illegal AK47 and arrest me for having an assault weapon. Even though it is not illegal and was purchased by an FFL here in NJ. I then would have an arrest on my record and have to go through all the trouble that came with it. The same result could happen if I said yes to your question. I assume if I did you would want to check them out.

 

BLF

Why lie? Because I don;t know if the LEO that pulled me over knows the laws. Will he or she see my Saiga and instantly arrest me? I know you probably wouldn't becuase you know what a Saiga is. But I can;t assume they all do. Is there a law that says I have to tell you the truth?

 

I'm guessing that this was addressed to me being that 1001 is mentioned.

 

Given the scenario you provided, I would probably spend some time checking you out. If that worked out, I could arrest you for 1001 but most likely wouldn't as there is no crime to tie the lie to, not that one is needed.

 

I need to explain how that works and the easiest example i can think of is Martha Steward. She was under investigation for insider trading and lied to the FBI. If she had taken the fifth, that could not be used against her. But she lied. The FBI eventually developed enough info to arrest her and take her to trial, charging her with insider trading and false statement (1001). She was found not guilty of the insider trading but guilty of the false statement. If she had take the fifth during the initial questioning...she would have got off totally. She chose to lie and paid for it.

 

There are many on this forum that know firearms law better than some cops but don't get yourself in trobule because "I don't know if the cops know the law". Those instances are few and far between otherwise we would be hearing about them here all the time.

 

 

 

 

IMHO the hypotheticals being proposed in most of the threads about transport questions seem to be a little far fetched.

 

I have never had a traffic violation (speeding/red light/etc) result in a question of "do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" Usually it's something along the lines of "why are you in such a hurry?" or "where are you coming from/heading?" To which I generally reply "On my way home from xxx town or on my way to xxx town." I see no need to volunteer that I was at a range.

 

If you get to the point where you're being questioned about weapons in the vehicle my guess is its not a standard stop for minor violation.

 

The only scenario I have seen where a LEO might discover your transporting is the one someone described about changing a flat tire with the trunk open and they spot it when they stop to help/divert traffic. At which point they should probably be more concerned with the tire wrench than the firearm.

Please relate the last 5 times the police screwed you.

 

 

I hope I am missing your point, but it sounds like you are implying that you haven't been 'screwed' over by police five times that means police aren't screwing anybody over. I'm fairly certain that isn't indicative of much of anything.

OP here so I will try to reply to every post from my last one.

 

While driving to the range, I try not to break any laws i.e seatbelt, cell phone, speeding, blinkers. The firearms are locked in one container and the ammo in another. The only thing that is showing is the target stand for CR.

 

I agree with the "if not asked don't provide" theory since this will only lead to more problems, but if you are directly asked the "do you have any firearms" question and you lie, that is going to lead to more problems later if LEO finds out you lied.

 

The scenario from the OP was not a hypothetical. This was a drive my wife and I took a few weeks back to CR.

Please relate the last 5 times the police screwed you.

 

Me? Never. My last official contact with LEO was a tailight out in the late 80's. (It is a little curious that most of the people that I regarded to be jackasses in high school have gone into law enforcement, though.)

 

My "unoffical" contact with LEOs is 30 years in the emergency services, hanging essentially daily with dozens of them and hearing about the antics they are frequently up to. For example, based on the curriculum in the state police academy, it seems like recruits were at one point indoctrinated into thinking that everyone is bascially a criminal if you look hard enough and LEOs are the only thing preventing the utter downfall of society.

 

I know good cops, bad cops, smart cops, dumb cops and lazy cops. I know that great cops have bad days. But unless something is radically changing, LEO culture is not about "protect and serve." Perhaps it never was.

 

HAHAHAHAHA

Word track when cop says: "Do you have any weapons or anything illegal with you?":

 

"Why was I stopped?" (any response from cop) "Am I suspected of committing a crime?" (any response from cop) "Are you writing me a citation for my alleged violation?" (any answer from cop) "Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

Word track when cop says: "Do you have any weapons or anything illegal with you?":

 

"Why was I stopped?" (any response from cop) "Am I suspected of committing a crime?" (any response from cop) "Are you writing me a citation for my alleged violation?" (any answer from cop) "Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

 

I've been stopped my fair share of times and I've never had a cop ask me if I have weapons in the car. If they ask I'm guessing that there is something leading up to those questions.

I've been stopped my fair share of times and I've never had a cop ask me if I have weapons in the car. If they ask I'm guessing that there is something leading up to those questions.

 

I've been stopped many times and maybe a quarter of the time they ask the same question in one of the two ways: "do you have anything illegal in the vehicle?" or "do you have anything you shouldn't have?". I say no and they move to a new subject. Usually from municipal LEO, rarely from Troops. It started happening after the newer generation of mobile data terminals became prevalent. I have a fairly long DL abstract but no arrests. Probably my bumper stickers and some creative notes.

 

Suffice it to say it certainly does occur in the wild. If I was a nervous dude I'm sure I'd have some good stories.

 

I've only had my car searched once and it was when I was a kid -- no PC articulated and no permission given. Patrolman says "sorry kid, I've got to search your car, my Sgt is here with me". Rookie broke my glovebox and the Sgt got a complaint filed by my parents -- not the first, second or third complaint on his record.

Why lie. If you are caught lying I am going to think more is going on and do everything in my power to keep you there until I am satisfied. A perp is never going to tell you there are guns in the car. If I ask and you say you are headed to the range I may ask to see that everything is secured properly and let you be on the way. I may ask what you have for my own curiosity and being a gun guy but you don't have to answer.

 

This. I don't understand all the leo hatred. Not all are out to screw people ya know.

You can do that. Having your lawyer present is a right you have if you are being investigated for a criminal violation. The cop in NJ can arrest you for any violation of Title 39 (yes you can get arrested for a red light, speeding, or parking by a fire hydrant), tow your car, and make you post bail.

 

And the town and officer can be sued for abuse of power. I can see how well that would go in court,

If I ask and you say you are headed to the range I may ask to see that everything is secured properly

 

One question - why? This seems totally unnecessary. If they're not secured properly what are you going to do? Arrest the person? More reason NOT to consent to a search.

This. I don't understand all the leo hatred. Not all are out to screw people ya know.

 

It's not "LEO hatred." It's called exercising your right to not consent to an unwarranted search.

 

And you're right, not all are out to screw people, but I'd rather not roll the dice by consenting to a search.

One question - why? This seems totally unnecessary. If they're not secured properly what are you going to do? Arrest the person? More reason NOT to consent to a search.

 

This.

I have never had a traffic violation (speeding/red light/etc) result in a question of "do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" Usually it's something along the lines of "why are you in such a hurry?" or "where are you coming from/heading?" To which I generally reply "On my way home from xxx town or on my way to xxx town." I see no need to volunteer that I was at a range.

 

I've been pulled over in NJ only twice and both times the only question I was asked was, "Sir, do you know why I pulled you over?" I've found the officer that pulled me over in each instance to be courteous and professional.

 

None asked me if I had weapons in the car (once I did have a properly secured weapon, in trunk, unloaded, ammo separate). I'm not going to lie but I'm not going to volunteer any info either. Not for nothing I don't want to turn a 5 minute traffic stop and traffic violation into a full blown search of my vehicle. My main concern, apart from being arrested is TIME. I don't have a lot of time to waste, which is probably why I was speeding in the first place.

The only scenario I have seen where a LEO might discover your transporting

I keep my FID in the place in my wallet as my drivers license and insurance cards. I should probably move it, but nevertheless, should I get pulled over and he sees the card as I'm fumbeling around for my other documents I can invision very easily him asking if I have any firearms in the car.

I keep my FID in the place in my wallet as my drivers license and insurance cards. I should probably move it, but nevertheless, should I get pulled over and he sees the card as I'm fumbeling around for my other documents I can invision very easily him asking if I have any firearms in the car.

 

That's why I don't:

 

Keep my FPID in my wallet (I don't purchase guns and ammo every day or go to the range every day and I obviously can't carry with a FPID)

Keep my FPID next to my license. I usually keep it behind my range ID card which is stored in the center console when I'm going anywhere with a firearm. I must admit though this is mostly to keep the dog ears out of it and not to hide it.

"I'm sitting in a 2-ton blunt instrument, and you ask if I have any weapons???"

I keep my FID in the place in my wallet as my drivers license and insurance cards. I should probably move it, but nevertheless, should I get pulled over and he sees the card as I'm fumbeling around for my other documents I can invision very easily him asking if I have any firearms in the car.

 

I'll give you that one. The only thing I keep next to my DL is a wad of FOP/PBA cards.

You can say that but the cop is going to wonder why you just don't give a straight answer.

 

I know there are a lot of people here who think LEOs just sit around figuring out ways to screw regular people. I can assure you that isn't the case

With all due respect Griz, I'm really not that concerned with him wondering why I didn't answer his question or don't want to answer his question. It's not a question he should have asked me, and as I see it, I have 3 options if he does ask me:

 

1) Lie, and be subject to the penalites mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

or

 

2) Admit to having guns, and run the risk of a search and being inconvenienced or worse getting jammed up by an officer who isn't familiar with the law. "Those are hollow poitns...you can't have them."

 

or

 

3) I'm sorry sir, but I respectfully refuse to answer that question.

 

You tell me...what would you do? Or what would you suggest that someone like me do? Same with Bluelinefish, or other LE on board.

Say whatever you want..i dont care anymore. Lie, tell stories..read me.dr suess..i dont care anymore. I goot start resisting answering these threads. I feel like its the equivalent of repeatedly banging my head against the wall

I think the OP has gotten many answers and thread has run its course.....

Say whatever you want..i dont care anymore. Lie, tell stories..read me.dr suess..i dont care anymore. I goot start resisting answering these threads. I feel like its the equivalent of repeatedly banging my head against the wall

 

Do you prefer Green Eggs and Ham, One Fish, Two Fish, or Fox and Sox. I have all three. I think I can get The Cat in the Hat and The Lorax as well.

This. I don't understand all the leo hatred. Not all are out to screw people ya know.

 

How in the hell does refusing to answer a question equate to "leo hatred"?

 

If you even question a leo or his actions on this forum you are automatically labeled a "leo hater".

Why lie. If you are caught lying I am going to think more is going on and do everything in my power to keep you there until I am satisfied. A perp is never going to tell you there are guns in the car. If I ask and you say you are headed to the range I may ask to see that everything is secured properly and let you be on the way. I may ask what you have for my own curiosity and being a gun guy but you don't have to answer.

 

Just curious: Lets say you ask to inspect the car and are given permission. You find that something isn't stored properly. Now the guy was honest with you, not trying to hide anything and obviously doesn't present a threat to you or the public... but he didn't store his gun or ammo according to the law. What do you do at that point?

 

Just curious: Lets say you ask to inspect the car and are given permission. You find that something isn't stored properly. Now the guy was honest with you, not trying to hide anything and obviously doesn't present a threat to you or the public... but he didn't store his gun or ammo according to the law. What do you do at that point?

Lets just say i have discretion. What i may do if the guys is legit and just made an error may be different than someone.else

I suggest getting a case that locks and an ammo box that locks. Lock them both when transporting. In the event you are pulled over and you tell the cop you have guns in your car cuz your going to the range, you will have a case that probably requires a warrant to open. They can't just pop it open and look at your gear.