I think its about time people start filing lawsuits over this. Maybe a class action suit. This BS is getting ridiculous.

Im with you on that... We shold all get together there is power in numbers

I agree.

Someone needs to find a lawyer who can handle this. I would put my name in

Nappen....

 

Someone needs to find a lawyer who can handle this. I would put my name in

 

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Typos courtesy Apple...

Someone needs to find a lawyer who can handle this. I would put my name in

I wish it was just a name but someone has to also put $$$$ in --  The question is what would we actually get in return?

 

Has anyone actually had a monetary loss due to the NICS being delayed --  How do we put a value on a pistol permit -- I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had a permit expire because NICS took too long --  I'm afraid that we would only get rewarded the $2 fee for each expired pistol permit 

 

I'm in the class action suit if started but money spent on legal fees will most likely not come back and you know it will cost...

Shnappin nappen will have the answers...

If we all chip in it wont be that expensive ... Like if we all give the cost of a nics check

If we all chip in it wont be that expensive ... Like if we all give the cost of a nics check

And that would be reasonable --  The big question is what would we get in return???  

 

Maybe we would get back the Instant in NICS but these kind of suits take years --  

 

Don't get me wrong -- I too think it's time --  Just the reality of the legal system, especially against the NJSP, where we would be funding both sides of the case -- sucks

Want there word on this forum that NICS was training new people so they can get through the backlog??

Want there word on this forum that NICS was training new people so they can get through the backlog??

There word means nothing, they are liars. First it was hurricane sandy destroyed mental health records and now its that that there is a backlog.

We also need the support of the firearm shops. This has to be affecting their sales in someway.  Will we ever return back to the days when you walk in get NICS check and leave with your firearm?

I got my FID about 4 years ago. How long has the 1 pistol every 30 days law been in effect and has it ever been challenged?

OMAM?

 

OGAM > http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/12396-when-does-ogam-start-have-2-permits-ready-to-expire/#entry163738

This isn't a civil matter, it's a criminal one. There should be relief under the Official Misconduct laws. They are a Government entity, knowingly delaying a matter that is titled "instant", that results in a denial of rights. This is not something that is discretionary - this is an obligation they have to meet, and if that means hiring more people, waiving the POC and going directly to the FBI database, so be it. They can't just decide that our second amendment rights are secondary to their staffing and personnel needs.

 

I keep hearing, "We're looking into it" over and over again, and the problem continues to grow worse. At what stage do we stop "looking into it" and take some kind of meaningful action?

 

Here's the problem - with whom do you file the complaint? The AG is the top LEO in the state and as such is responsible for the NJSP - against whom the complaint would be filed and which should be prosecuted by the AG.....catch 22.

 

IANAL and my legal ramblings here may be way off base. Maybe none of what I suggest above is possible - but there is some kind of malfeasance and someone needs to be held accountable.

 

JMHO

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

The problem with NJ is that it handles NICS checks as a Point of Contact (POC) state. The reason they're acting as a POC state is because it allows them (NJ) to impose additional checks that the ordinary NICS may/may not cover. 

 

National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NCIC)
Criminal Information Unit

The New Jersey State Police (NJSP) NICS Operation Center conducts background checks for Federal Firearms Licensees (FFL) on prospective firearm purchasers in accordance with the provisions set fort in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, 18 U.S.C. Section 922. The NICS Operation Center transmits a formatted message to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) NICS Operation Center accessing the Interstate Identification Index (III), National Crime Information Center (NCIC) hot files and the NICS Index. In addition to these files the NJSP NICS Operation Center accesses the following New Jersey data bases: the Administrative Office of the Courts (AOC) Domestic Violence Central Registry, the Division of Mental Health Services (DMHS) Census and USTF databases, the New Jersey Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV) files and the NJSP Firearms Investigations Unit files.

 

Before people can consider a class action lawsuit, a competent attorney should review the current laws and see if there's anything specific on the State level books concerning NICS checks. 

 

What we do know is that, under normal conditions (pre-panic), average response times for an FFL NICS query was about 15 minutes after the fax was sent. Once the fax has been sent to the State Police, that should be considered the time and date that the FFL has contacted NICS system for a response.

 

Taking that into account, if NJ adheres by the provisions set forth in the VPA, then the lawyer will need to look at the "Open" definition and see if that would trigger the 3 day rule if the FFL does not receive a response.

 

LIke others, IANAL and tried to research this the best I could. Hopefully someone in the field can chime in and see if we (citizens) have any recourse.

I mean the I in nics means "instant" for christs sake.

 

The way NJ interferes with nics is the same way they handle our highways. With an F'ing toll booth.

 

I'm so sick and tired of this state. Theres gotta be something we can do besides take it in the butt.

Maybe a lawsuit would push/force NJ to go to the federal system, on a side note I was told the state hired 4 new workers to help handle the NICS issues and they are training now

Maybe a lawsuit would push/force NJ to go to the federal system, on a side note I was told the state hired 4 new workers to help handle the NICS issues and they are training now

The problem is not the manpower but the stupid, antiquated method NJ uses to conduct the NICS process. You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey.

So why don't the FFL's in NJ get together and follow the rules of all the other states? If no NICS denial within 3 days, automatic approval! Let's see how that flies..............

The problem is not the manpower but the stupid, antiquated method NJ uses to conduct the NICS process. You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey.

Agreed but until the system gets fixed I'll take any help to speed up the process

So why don't the FFL's in NJ get together and follow the rules of all the other states? If no NICS denial within 3 days, automatic approval! Let's see how that flies..............

Because that is NOT the law

Nevermind. 

FFLs are people just like rest of us - restricted in rights, operate within confines of laws (including the stupid, senseless laws) and frustrated with the delays and loss of business. Some dont even do things that other FFLs agree to be within law, for the fear of BATF agents breathing down their neck. 

 

So forget FFLs going outside the law, they wont and they shouldnt. Until rest of us take action, nothing will change.

 

Going back to OP, I will gladly donate atleast $100 or more to support action in this area. Its not about any monetary loss with the existing delays. The real danger is the precedence this is setting up. I suspect someone is testing the system to see if the general population will gather up enough courage and lawful course to fight the delays.

I suspect someone is testing the system to see if the general population will gather up enough courage and lawful course to fight the delays.

 

The little tin-foil hat wearing devil on my shoulder is telling me the same thing.

We don't have a single attorney on here who could offer some sort of advice??

 

I personally have no idea what to do but MY rights are being violated right now -- I'm 11 days into my instant background check -- Hopefully they didn't lose my paperwork and I only have a week left...

 

Thats what it's come down to --  Hoping it only takes 3 weeks

I honestly can't believe that everyone has been just accepting of this. I'm in the middle of a change of address on my fid card so it's going to be awhile until I need nics. However if it's not sorted by then I'm going to look into this big time.

I have no purchases right now, but maybe try to get an appointment with the NJSP FIU, then the NJSP major that has FIU under his command, then NJSP Spt Fuentes, then NJAG? You can ask, remember these folks work for us, not the other way around.

 

Or call your local Assembly/Senate creatures, that's one of their jobs, helping their constituents with relcalcitrant state agencies. In a 2A friendly district it may get results, in drunk corrupt old hag districts it at least gives an opportunity to tweak them about not following the law

I honestly can't believe that everyone has been just accepting of this. I'm in the middle of a change of address on my fid card so it's going to be awhile until I need nics. However if it's not sorted by then I'm going to look into this big time.

So it's not about the fight of denying a constitutional right? ...an obvious testing of the waters/further conditioning of accepting more roadblocks and delaying an already ridiculously over involved and redundant process?..just because at the moment it doesn't affect you(at the moment) hopefully when it does it hasn't progressed too far from too many with that mindset ....

 

Edit: I apologize if it seems as if it seems im attacking you personally ..I'm not just that's the type of thing that's gotten us to the position we are now...

I have no purchases right now, but maybe try to get an appointment with the NJSP FIU, then the NJSP major that has FIU under his command, then NJSP Spt Fuentes, then NJAG? You can ask, remember these folks work for us, not the other way around.

 

Or call your local Assembly/Senate creatures, that's one of their jobs, helping their constituents with relcalcitrant state agencies. In a 2A friendly district it may get results, in drunk corrupt old hag districts it at least gives an opportunity to tweak them about not following the law

 

Definitely contact your assembly/senator, but I don't know how effective it will be.  Mine are very pro-2A and haven't been any help at all.  I have contacted them via email, letter, fax and phone.

By get ahold of, I mean speak PERSONALLY to. Joe, for our district (12) Ron Dancer is very pro 2A,and Sen Thompson I have spoken to personally. You do need to actually go and SEE them, at their offices. Clifton's office is in Millstone, I have never spoken to him personally. I dunno if you have already stopped in their offices.