I disagree to an extent.. the law is fairly clear.. and when you consider the population of the state... and the amount of law enforcement... there are only the tiniest fraction of issues when talking about legal gun owners...

 

the gun laws in this state NEED to change... but that is not the job of the police... 

 

 

That's a reasonable view point.  And, i do agree with your title for this thread.  However, I disagree with the law being fairly clear.  The laws pertaining to firearm ownership are largely unconstitutional and, as convoluted and treacherous and nonsensical as possible for the honest, moral, law-abiding citizen to try and abide by them.

 

I don't like to always feel that I have to look over my shoulder when I have no intent to disobey the law.  By the way, didn't the OP move out of this state in order to avoid the nonsense that we have to put up with on a daily basis with these laws  and those that enforce them?  Kudos to him for being able to easily do that.

 

I disagree to an extent

 

 

So it isn't our job. It isn't the police's job. And you don't trust politicians. Excellent attitude. Things will surely change!

So it isn't our job. It isn't the police's job. And you don't trust politicians. Excellent attitude. Things will surely change!

 

your tone is not one of discussion or conversation... it is one of disrespect.. and mockery... so really this will go nowhere...

it is the job of the people to elect a government that represents them and the values that they hold....

 

the problem is.. in general.. the values of our nation are values of entitlement... apathy... sloth.. so nothing happens... people elect the person they think will net them the most.. as opposed to the individual that may do what is "right".... 

 

the job of the police is to enforce law.. period.. that is their job...

 

not to make up laws..

not to change them...

 

I do not trust politicians because I understand how they get there... promise the world to those that wish to do nothing...

your tone is not one of discussion or conversation... it is one of disrespect.. and mockery... so really this will go nowhere...

it is the job of the people to elect a government that represents them and the values that they hold....

 

the problem is.. in general.. the values of our nation are values of entitlement... apathy... sloth.. so nothing happens... people elect the person they think will net them the most.. as opposed to the individual that may do what is "right".... 

 

the job of the police is to enforce law.. period.. that is their job...

 

not to make up laws..

not to change them...

 

I do not trust politicians because I understand how they get there... promise the world to those that wish to do nothing...

 

I find it both impressive that you are able to know my tone based on text, and that though you don't trust politicians you still somehow think they should be the only ones to change laws. By your own admission things won't change the way you want them to and you don't support change in any other method. That my friend, is an exercise in futility. It is also mind boggling. 

That's a reasonable view point.  And, i do agree with your title for this thread.  However, I disagree with the law being fairly clear.  The laws pertaining to firearm ownership are largely unconstitutional and, as convoluted and treacherous and nonsensical as possible for the honest, moral, law-abiding citizen to try and abide by them.

 

I don't like to always feel that I have to look over my shoulder when I have no intent to disobey the law.  By the way, didn't the OP move out of this state in order to avoid the nonsense that we have to put up with on a daily basis with these laws  and those that enforce them?  Kudos to him for being able to easily do that.

 

 

the laws of your state do not prevent gun ownership... they hinder it... 

I do not agree with the laws.. and YES that is why I left... I left a state that did not respect my rights... and moved on.. I left my job.. family.. etc.. and started over.. 

 

tell me what part of NJ gun laws confuse you... and I can probably help you...(I am being sincere) 

they are fairly clear... 

 

to buy a gun you have to first do this..

you can own these guns.. but not these...

you can use your guns here.. but not there...

 

that essentially sums up NJ gun law... again.. if there is a specific part you are hung up on.. I can try to help you.. I am definitely not a lawyer.. but spent a ton of time reading them.. 

If I am reading this right... many on here are quite disheartened by the politics that is infused in a Forum about guns.  However, consider that until about 5 years ago, I was not very concerned with politics, and I didn't really notice the dangerous changes that are happening almost on a daily basis to this country, with no thought toward reform, but radical transformation.   It wasn't that I didn't notice them... I just didn't take them seriously, believing that the people wouldn't, either.

 

Politics in in play frequently because the elite that are suppose to work for us, they are attempting to rule over us and fundamentally change our way of life.  Which if the people REALLY wanted it, well, then that would be what should happen, however, these elitists enact these things in a very dishonest way. 

your tone is not one of discussion or conversation... it is one of disrespect.. and mockery... so really this will go nowhere...

it is the job of the people to elect a government that represents them and the values that they hold....

 

the problem is.. in general.. the values of our nation are values of entitlement... apathy... sloth.. so nothing happens... people elect the person they think will net them the most.. as opposed to the individual that may do what is "right".... 

 

the job of the police is to enforce law.. period.. that is their job...

 

not to make up laws..

not to change them...

 

I do not trust politicians because I understand how they get there... promise the world to those that wish to do nothing...

 

 

To me his tone sounded like one of frustration.  Perhaps that is a limitation of this kind of discussion.

I believe in the 1st amendment as much as the 2nd. Let people speak freely even if you don't like what they have to say. Please don't lecture me on what my opinions should be.

your tone is not one of discussion or conversation... it is one of disrespect.. and mockery... so really this will go nowhere...

it is the job of the people to elect a government that represents them and the values that they hold....

 

the problem is.. in general.. the values of our nation are values of entitlement... apathy... sloth.. so nothing happens... people elect the person they think will net them the most.. as opposed to the individual that may do what is "right".... 

 

the job of the police is to enforce law.. period.. that is their job...

 

not to make up laws..

not to change them...

 

I do not trust politicians because I understand how they get there... promise the world to those that wish to do nothing...

 

 

In my book, the police are not primarily to enforce the rules, but to keep the peace.  Rule enforcement is secondary.  I don't want to be viewed as a perp until I do something that makes me viewed that way.

I find it both impressive that you are able to know my tone based on text, and that though you don't trust politicians you still somehow think they should be the only ones to change laws. By your own admission things won't change the way you want them to and you don't support change in any other method. That my friend, is an exercise in futility. It is also mind boggling. 

 

ill try to explain it.. 

you take snippets of what I said and string them together and then make a little catch comment... in an effort to diminish what I am telling you.. 

 

and there is NO way to change laws other than at the state and federal level.. the way that our nation works YOU cannot make a law.. I can not make a law.. 

 

so the ONLY way to fix it.. is to elect those that can...

unfortunately.. in present time.. "we" are outnumbered.. 

 

you live in a state that is hostile to your values.. and a nation that does not see it like you...

when I say nation.. I mean nation as a whole... the voting majority...

you can rant and rave on a forum all day long.. but guess what it has accomplished?

nothing... 

 

the government is still spending more a day than I will make in my lifetime...

the people that do nothing are still getting paid..

the government still mocks the notion of freedom...

 

and all of that will continue.. no matter how angry you get until something causes a change... 

I believe in the 1st amendment as much as the 2nd. Let people speak freely even if you don't like what they have to say. Please don't lecture me on what my opinions should be.

 

no one is telling you what to say or what not to say...

they are just telling you a forum about gun ownership.. is not a forum to air your political views...

 

political views cause drama.. and conflict.. and the site was not founded on that.. there are a million and one forums that cater to political discussion.. you can debate it all day long.. every tiny point of it.. 

In my book, the police are not primarily to enforce the rules, but to keep the peace.  Rule enforcement is secondary.

 

 

the peace is a state created by law and order...

law says you can not run down the street shooting guns at cars... they enforce the law thus keeping the peace 

 

splitting hairs maybe.. but sure.. enforce law.. keep the peace.. 

If I am reading this right... many on here are quite disheartened by the politics that is infused in a Forum about guns.  However, consider that until about 5 years ago, I was not very concerned with politics, and I didn't really notice the dangerous changes that are happening almost on a daily basis to this country, with no thought toward reform, but radical transformation.   It wasn't that I didn't notice them... I just didn't take them seriously, believing that the people wouldn't, either.

 

Politics in in play frequently because the elite that are suppose to work for us, they are attempting to rule over us and fundamentally change our way of life.  Which if the people REALLY wanted it, well, then that would be what should happen, however, these elitists enact these things in a very dishonest way. 

 

 

I LIKE to discuss politics.. I even like to debate and argue them (without hard feelings).. there is a forum on this site to talk about it.. it is just not something that is desired in the public forum because people tend to get worked up about it.. and it causes tension...

ill try to explain it.. 

you take snippets of what I said and string them together and then make a little catch comment... in an effort to diminish what I am telling you.. 

 

and there is NO way to change laws other than at the state and federal level.. the way that our nation works YOU cannot make a law.. I can not make a law..

I understand what you are saying, and I think it is a piss poor attitude to have. And I am telling you, that despite your disagreement with things, you are wrong. You seem to be upset when politicians make crappy laws, but then turn around and say they should be enforced and upheld when all that is required to make them moot, is to not enforce them, and to nullify them via juries. That is the way our nations works too.

 

so the ONLY way to fix it.. is to elect those that can...

unfortunately.. in present time.. "we" are outnumbered..

Ridiculous notion.

 

you live in a state that is hostile to your values.. and a nation that does not see it like you...

when I say nation.. I mean nation as a whole... the voting majority...

you can rant and rave on a forum all day long.. but guess what it has accomplished?

nothing...

Your understanding of a Constitutional Republic, as opposed to a true democracy is weak. This isn't the majority rules.

 

the peace is a state created by law and order...

law says you can not run down the street shooting guns at cars... they enforce the law thus keeping the peace 

 

splitting hairs maybe.. but sure.. enforce law.. keep the peace..

You created the thread title, please take your own advice. We don't live in some fantasy land where only good things happen by enforcing these wonderful laws. By your own admission there are unjust laws you wish changed. Kind of puts a wrinkle in your whole; enforcing laws=peace assertion, that certainly doesn't always hold true.

no one is telling you what to say or what not to say...

they are just telling you a forum about gun ownership.. is not a forum to air your political views...

 

political views cause drama.. and conflict.. and the site was not founded on that.. there are a million and one forums that cater to political discussion.. you can debate it all day long.. every tiny point of it.. 

 

He doth make sense... to some extent.   I blather on a little to much around here, and I do feel that Maks is very hands-off unless someone crosses the line.  And that is remarkable for a public forum.

 

However, I fear that those that choose to exercise their 2nd Amendment Rights are forever immersed in the political theater. 

the peace is a state created by law and order...

law says you can not run down the street shooting guns at cars... they enforce the law thus keeping the peace 

 

splitting hairs maybe.. but sure.. enforce law.. keep the peace.. 

 

 

Yes, and running down the street is very similar to stopping to piss on the way to the range, or picking up your buddy at his house.  But, lets not split hairs as they probably have the same sentence and there is probably very little wiggle room.  And, as the law is written, those two things could be quite reasonable to the one doing that.  I guess the enforcement there of is both meant to establish law and order (and control).

 

Well, gotta go... Time for dinner.

guess what.. the rules of this site state that the general section is NOT for politics... for the very reason of avoiding arguing.. there is a separate forum for politics that exists for that... it is only for premium members... if you do not wish to be one there is no issue with that at all.. 

 

just find another site to talk about politics on... 

 

and keep the discussion here geared towards firearms.. which is the intention of the site...

 

We've already had a discussion about politics being kept more in the open a week ago, politics wasn't the point of my post. I'll try to summarize for you....people should stop b!tching about things they read on the computer. If you don't want to read about "Adam Kokesh arrested at pot rally" don't click on the link....if you can't surmise that a thread about someone getting arrested at a rally could lead to people saying things about police then you are clueless.

 

 

You don't seem to get it John... Go back and re-read my post regarding sifting through shiet. Not every post is bad in the general area. But finding decent ones are getting progressively harder. Why should we have to?

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

 

I am having no trouble finding threads to read, if the subject line intrigues me I click on it....once I'm in the thread if there is no new knowledge I can gain from reading further, I simply click the back button. Obviously, not everyone feels the way you do....if they did "the shiet" wouldn't get any replies and would quickly fall to the bottom of the pile. Stop trying to censor this forum even more because you have to click the mouse a few extra times.

I understand what you are saying, and I think it is a piss poor attitude to have. And I am telling you, that despite your disagreement with things, you are wrong. You seem to be upset when politicians make crappy laws, but then turn around and say they should be enforced and upheld when all that is required to make them moot, is to not enforce them, and to nullify them via juries. That is the way our nations works too.

 

 

what ridiculous is that you think that the police should ultimately decide what to enforce and what not to enforce...

 

"yeah the speed limit is 45.. but its called a limit for a reason... from now on around these parts im pulling over and ticketing all cars going anything over 44 because I think it is best"

"yeah that gun might be legal.. but it doesnt really look like it.. that brake might be a flash hider.. im gonna have to bring you in to check on this.."

 

I do NOT want a state where police arbitrarily decide how to enforce the law.. sorry..

 

I feel like I can't get across to you the danger of that to me... 

A police officer may make a really great call.. one that I totally agree with... well the other half of the country may totally disagree... 

We've already had a discussion about politics being kept more in the open a week ago, politics wasn't the point of my post. I'll try to summarize for you....people should stop b!tching about things they read on the computer. If you don't want to read about "Adam Kokesh arrested at pot rally" don't click on the link....if you can't surmise that a thread about someone getting arrested at a rally could lead to people saying things about police then you are clueless.

 

 

OR... if you want to post about things that are not welcome somewhere.. you could find a forum that is based in politics.. or.. marijuana.. I am sure they would be really into that? 

does that not make sense to you...

 

"I have a topic I want to talk about.. it is probably political in nature.."

"should I post it on this gun forum.. which really doesn't have much to do with pot..and a place where I know they are not really welcoming of political debate.."

"or should I maybe post it on a drug forum.. or a political forum.. where people are more receptive to this.."

what ridiculous is that you think that the police should ultimately decide what to enforce and what not to enforce...

 

"yeah the speed limit is 45.. but its called a limit for a reason... from now on around these parts im pulling over and ticketing all cars going anything over 44 because I think it is best"

"yeah that gun might be legal.. but it doesnt really look like it.. that brake might be a flash hider.. im gonna have to bring you in to check on this.."

What is ridiculous it that you keep making up hypotheticals and attributing them to my opinion when they are your scenarios. Not mine. You have stated you don't think laws should be based on morality, but rather majority rules, so it is no wonder you don't want police exercising judgment of their own morality to decide not to enforce unjust laws.

 

I do NOT want a state where police arbitrarily decide how to enforce the law.. sorry..

What do you think happens now? Police have some magic wand and all laws are enforced the same everywhere without any judgment involved? If you live in fantasy land, then I am jealous. I live in reality where things aren't always fair, and are often 'arbitrary'. I'd like a postcard please.

 

I feel like I can't get across to you the danger of that to me... 

A police officer may make a really great call.. one that I totally agree with... well the other half of the country may totally disagree...

Yep, it is called the real world. Welcome and nice to meet you.

Not trying to censor anything. But this is why there is a politics area located in the premier area. So this kind of diatribe does not show in public areas. Definitely NOT in the general area.

 

 

 

guess what.. the rules of this site state that the general section is NOT for politics... for the very reason of avoiding arguing.. there is a separate forum for politics that exists for that... it is only for premium members... if you do not wish to be one there is no issue with that at all..

 

just find another site to talk about politics on...

 

and keep the discussion here geared towards firearms.. which is the intention of the site...

 

 

We've already had a discussion about politics being kept more in the open a week ago, politics wasn't the point of my post. I'll try to summarize for you....people should stop b!tching about things they read on the computer. If you don't want to read about "Adam Kokesh arrested at pot rally" don't click on the link....if you can't surmise that a thread about someone getting arrested at a rally could lead to people saying things about police then you are clueless.

 

 

 

You don't seem to get it John... Go back and re-read my post regarding sifting through shiet. Not every post is bad in the general area. But finding decent ones are getting progressively harder. Why should we have to?

 

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

 

Typos courtesy Apple...

 

 

I am having no trouble finding threads to read, if the subject line intrigues me I click on it....once I'm in the thread if there is no new knowledge I can gain from reading further, I simply click the back button. Obviously, not everyone feels the way you do....if they did "the shiet" wouldn't get any replies and would quickly fall to the bottom of the pile. Stop trying to censor this forum even more because you have to click the mouse a few extra times.

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

OR... if you want to post about things that are not welcome somewhere.. you could find a forum that is based in politics.. or.. marijuana.. I am sure they would be really into that? 

does that not make sense to you...

 

"I have a topic I want to talk about.. it is probably political in nature.."

"should I post it on this gun forum.. which really doesn't have much to do with pot..and a place where I know they are not really welcoming of political debate.."

"or should I maybe post it on a drug forum.. or a political forum.. where people are more receptive to this.."

 

Politics and firearms are forever linked.  An indicator about whether or not to post something should be whether or not what you post is viewed.  When I post something in the political forum, I can see whether or not there is an interest.  If there isn't an audience, then my posts would die out.  Since, I don't go to the muzzle-loading section, I have no clue what is there and really don't care.  But, I read just about everything in the political spectrum. 

 

I think what Vlad really might mean is that as a moderator, HE doesn't want to read all of what he considers BS, but somewhat has to as a moderator.  And, if HE wanted to read politics, or about organic growth, then he would join the appropriate forum and strive to be a moderator there.  And, he certainly doesn't want LEO bashing on a forum that has a lot of LEOs that come here.  Let LEO bashers go to the cooking forum.

What is ridiculous it that you keep making up hypotheticals and attributing them to my opinion when they are your scenarios. Not mine. You have stated you don't think laws should be based on morality, but rather majority rules, so it is no wonder you don't want police exercising judgment of their own morality to decide not to enforce unjust laws.

 

 

I am telling you.. 

 

you think it is awesome when a cop bucks the system stands up and says "I will not enforce that gun law because its not what I believe in.. and it is wrong"

but you forget that there are other cops out there that have views that are completely opposite... and their discretion could be awful.... 

 

 

yeah I think all laws are enforced evenly... again you make ridiculous comments.. 

I obviously do not think that....

 

and if you don't think majority rules.. I dont know what to tell you...

elections elect officials...

officials are elected on what they sell to the people..

the people that the majority vote into office then make laws...

 

so... the voting majority is driving the boat.. 

Politics and firearms are forever linked. 

 

 

you can talk all day long about guns.. shooting styles.. reloading.. gun building... scope setups.... hunting... and so on.. without a drop of politics.. as was the intention of this forum.. 

 

 

 

Politics and firearms are forever linked.

 

 

 

you can talk all day long about guns.. shooting styles.. reloading.. gun building... scope setups.... hunting... and so on.. without a drop of politics.. as was the intention of this forum..

the only politics should be gun laws and proposed legislation. The rest just sets up arguments

 

I am telling you.. 

 

you think it is awesome when a cop bucks the system stands up and says "I will not enforce that gun law because its not what I believe in.. and it is wrong"

but you forget that there are other cops out there that have views that are completely opposite... and their discretion could be awful....

I didn't forget anything. I am not, as you have also spoken against, saying cops can make up their own laws. If their only discretion is to enforce the law or not, how awful can it be, and what would change anything now? It isn't like police can't already make good or bad decisions. I find it sad you don't think they should be able to make good ones though.

 

yeah I think all laws are enforced evenly... again you make ridiculous comments.. 

I obviously do not think that....

I'm aware but your opposition to things doesn't make sense otherwise.

 

and if you don't think majority rules.. I dont know what to tell you...

elections elect officials...

officials are elected on what they sell to the people..

the people that the majority vote into office then make laws...

 

so... the voting majority is driving the boat..

Well really the politicians are. As we have all seen, they often don't follow what their constituents want. Yet you still think they are the only ones who should make change....

the only politics should be gun laws and proposed legislation. The rest just sets up arguments

 

 

and gun laws is about gun laws..

what is legal.. what is not.. 

 

not about who is responsible for what and all that other nonsense.. 

I didn't forget anything. I am not, as you have also spoken against, saying cops can make up their own laws. If their only discretion is to enforce the law or not, how awful can it be, and what would change anything now? It isn't like police can't already make good or bad decisions. I find it sad you don't think they should be able to make good ones though.

 

Well really the politicians are. As we have all seen, they often don't follow what their constituents want. Yet you still think they are the only ones who should make change....

 

 

what could happen if they decide to enforce laws or not?

 

they could decide to let a criminal go because they understand the trouble hes going through... and that criminal could go on to commit a more serious crime..

 

if a law is legitimately broken..

make the arrest.. 

get them in the system for breaking the law..

and let the courts deal with it..

 

for creation of laws... politicians are extremely predictable.. I am not going to accuse this side of that.. and back and forth... 

but in general.. you elect someone and you have a pretty good idea of what they are going to do..

 

based on their history...

and what they say they will do.. 

I am telling you.. 

 

you think it is awesome when a cop bucks the system stands up and says "I will not enforce that gun law because its not what I believe in.. and it is wrong"

but you forget that there are other cops out there that have views that are completely opposite... and their discretion could be awful.... 

 

 

yeah I think all laws are enforced evenly... again you make ridiculous comments.. 

I obviously do not think that....

 

and if you don't think majority rules.. I dont know what to tell you...

elections elect officials...

officials are elected on what they sell to the people..

the people that the majority vote into office then make laws...

 

so... the voting majority is driving the boat.. 

 

If that were the case, redistricting would have zero effect.

So you are wrong.