So let me run through this scenario...

 

Friend is about to receive his FID with 2 pistol permits.  He only applied for 2 just because...he has no intention of buying more than 1 pistol, if that.  He's more interested in long guns.

 

So if I want a pistol in the next 3 months that his permit is good for, can he buy one and transfer it to me?  I assume a FFL would have to be the go-between?

 

I could apply for my own pistol permit but just don't want to go through all that hassle again.

 

Also, how does it work if you drive up to a store in PA or DE?

To purchase a pistol in this state you need a p2p even if it's a private transaction. If he purchased it for you,that is highly illegal and considered a straw purchase.

Total Straw Purchase

 

Illegal 100%

If you live in NJ, you must have the PP even if purchasing a gun from PA/DE. It must be transferred to a NJ FFL....which requires a pistol permit to transfer to you.

So it is no different even if I drive over to another state and want to buy something from a store?

 

Edit:  post above explains it.

 

So for a pistol anywhere, I need to apply for the P2P and wait for 46 months essentially.

 

Time to go rifle shopping I suppose.

Or do like I did....move.   


I finally talked myself into it. I'll be walking into the LGS this evening and walking out with a new G27.  

The only way you can do this would be if there is a gun you really really want now and don't think it will last is have him buy it.  Then you could get your own p2p and go to an FFL when you get it and have him transfer (sell) it to you with your own nics check.

The only way you can do this would be if there is a gun you really really want now and don't think it will last is have him buy it.  Then you could get your own p2p and go to an FFL when you get it and have him transfer (sell) it to you with your own nics check.

 

By the letter of the law......  still illegal

 

We all know its stupid..... but it comes down to intent.... 

Troy, how is that illegal?  If you wanted to sell your Berretta I could get a p2p and we could arrange a private sale.  How is what I am saying any different, except that I put the FFL in there which under current law is not even needed for a private sale.  I was suggesting a fully legal private transfer with all required permits.

Some would think this a straw purchase but its not as the transfer takes place between two qualified purchasers.He can buy the handgun but it must remain. In his possession until you get a P2P and then he can transfer the gun to you. No FFL required but you must have the P2P.

 

This is not a straw purchase. A straw purchase is when you buy the gun for someone who is not qualified to purchase a firearm.

 

If you buy your wife a firearm for her birthday you can check you are the actual purchaser of the firearm on the 4473 because you are. As long as you both have FIDs and complete COEs or she has a P2P when you give it to her its legal.

 

I think ATF uses a "gift" as an example in their FAQ.

The only way you can do this would be if there is a gun you really really want now and don't think it will last is have him buy it.  Then you could get your own p2p and go to an FFL when you get it and have him transfer (sell) it to you with your own nics check.

Keep in mind that many FFLs will work something out with the purchaser until the permits are obtained. 

Lets say your friend buys the same gun your interested in and holds on to it for a few months.  During this time you apply for your P2P and then he sells it to you.

It took me 3 months to get my last batch of P2P!

Troy, how is that illegal?  If you wanted to sell your Berretta I could get a p2p and we could arrange a private sale.  How is what I am saying any different, except that I put the FFL in there which under current law is not even needed for a private sale.  I was suggesting a fully legal private transfer with all required permits.

 

Howard.... looking at the law..... You are right.

 

Only if the gun is then transferred to a prohibited person is the initial purchase a straw purchase.....  I stand corrected

yeah, Howard's situation sounds technically legal, but the OP's is definitely not..

Don't sweat it Troy, the laws are so convoluted that even though I was "sure" I was right you had me doubting myself.

Your friend could purchase the gun that you want for himself, even while knowing your intention to buy it from him. After he gains possesion, he could sell it to you after you acquire your own P2P and you go through the entire process. No way that you may possess it until your transfer has concluded. So the answer to your question is really no. If there were some great deal that you would lose out on if it wasn't purchased immediately, your friend could use his second permit to secure it for you, but you'd still need to go through the entire purchase process for the transfer between the two of youse.

So it is no different even if I drive over to another state and want to buy something from a store?

 

Edit:  post above explains it.

 

So for a pistol anywhere, I need to apply for the P2P and wait for 46 months essentially.

 

Time to go rifle shopping I suppose.

 

Best thing to do is every 6 months apply for 6 pistol permits. Therefore, you always have 1 on hand at all times. This of course will require your local PD to approve permit extensions.... and if we are having actual "Instant" NICS checks.

 

You get the idea

Your friend could purchase the gun that you want for himself, even while knowing your intention to buy it from him. After he gains possesion, he could sell it to you after you acquire your own P2P and you go through the entire process. No way that you may possess it until your transfer has concluded. So the answer to your question is really no. If there were some great deal that you would lose out on if it wasn't purchased immediately, your friend could use his second permit to secure it for you, but you'd still need to go through the entire purchase process for the transfer between the two of youse.

 

 

Just make sure he doesn't use YOUR money to buy it.

Best thing to do is every 6 months apply for 6 pistol permits. Therefore, you always have 1 on hand at all times. This of course will require your local PD to approve permit extensions.... and if we are having actual "Instant" NICS checks.

 

You get the idea

 

Yes, apply for the first one after about 3.5 months of receiving the first permits, and then on six month increments thereafer. 

+1 GRIZ, this is not a straw purchase. A Straw purchase is defined and I quote:

 

A straw purchase is an illegal firearm purchase where the actual buyer of the gun, being unable to pass the required federal background check or desiring to not have his or her name associated with the transaction, uses a proxy buyer who can pass the required background check to purchase the firearm for him/her. It is highly illegal and punishable by a $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison.

 

What is described by AlDente67 does not meet the definition of a straw purchase. I highly recommend as others have to run the transaction through an FFL. The bottom line is the buyer will not take possession of the firearm unless they are fully qualified, have the proper permit, and pass a NCIS check. 

AlDente does not have a P2P to be able to acquire a handgun..  he would not legally be able to take possession of the pistol..  or am i wrong in that?   it may not be technically considered a straw purchase, but its illegal nonetheless, no?

AlDente does not have a P2P to be able to acquire a handgun..  he would not legally be able to take possession of the pistol..  or am i wrong in that?   it may not be technically considered a straw purchase, but its illegal nonetheless, no?

 

Your right I didn't catch that part. As stated earlier you need a pistol permit no matter what, even for a private sale. But if he did have one it would not be a straw purchase.

if he had one, he could have bought the gun himself..  lol..  

Yup complete misread sorry

Some would think this a straw purchase but its not as the transfer takes place between two qualified purchasers.He can buy the handgun but it must remain. In his possession until you get a P2P and then he can transfer the gun to you. No FFL required but you must have the P2P.

 

This is not a straw purchase. A straw purchase is when you buy the gun for someone who is not qualified to purchase a firearm.

 

If you buy your wife a firearm for her birthday you can check you are the actual purchaser of the firearm on the 4473 because you are. As long as you both have FIDs and complete COEs or she has a P2P when you give it to her its legal.

 

I think ATF uses a "gift" as an example in their FAQ.

Nope Griz..by the letter that is Absolutely a Straw Purchase......for years the ACCEPTED Definition was that it was only a straw purchase if it was for a Prohibited person, however that has been stopped in the last 20 years.  It was a common..INCREDIBLY Common in fact, practice here at one time.  In fact if you were under 21 and could not purchase a handgun from an FFL, it was not even blinked at when you walked into the LGS with your over 21 buddy and filled out both P2p's on the spot.  Just like most good things, Common sense has been taken out of the system.

+1 GRIZ, this is not a straw purchase. A Straw purchase is defined and I quote:

 

A straw purchase is an illegal firearm purchase where the actual buyer of the gun, being unable to pass the required federal background check or desiring to not have his or her name associated with the transaction, uses a proxy buyer who can pass the required background check to purchase the firearm for him/her. It is highly illegal and punishable by a $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison.

 

What is described by AlDente67 does not meet the definition of a straw purchase. I highly recommend as others have to run the transaction through an FFL. The bottom line is the buyer will not take possession of the firearm unless they are fully qualified, have the proper permit, and pass a NCIS check. 

Read question 11a on the 4473 closely.