Well, we'll see if this goes anywhere in the Senate.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/05/house-votes-to-curb-dhs-stockpiles-ammo/

 

 

House votes to curb DHS ammunition purchases

 

The House of Representatives voted late Wednesday to limit the amount of ammunition the Department of Homeland Security can purchase and stockpile.

Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., proposed the amendment to the annual DHS spending bill. The House approved the proposal by a 234-192 vote.

The amendment blocks funds from being used to buy ammunition until the department submits to Congress a comprehensive report on its ammunition usage and purchase history.

Lawmakers and Second Amendment advocates have fumed over reports that DHS and other agencies were buying millions of rounds of ammunition, thus fueling the national shortage and driving up prices.

Nick Nayak, a DHS procurement officer, said at a House oversight subcommittee hearing in April that the department planned to purchase about 750 million rounds over five years.

The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers.

The rest of the 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition the department reportedly aims to obtain would be purchased by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the federal government's second largest criminal investigative agency.

ICE's ammunition requests in the last year included:

--450 million rounds of .40-caliber duty ammunition

--40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years, for a total bullet-buy of 200 million rounds

--176,000 rifle rounds on a separate contract

--25,000 blank rounds

The amendment must still be approved by the House as part of an overall DHS spending bill, and then reconciled with a Senate measure.

Fox News' Chad Pergram and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/05/house-votes-to-curb-dhs-stockpiles-ammo/#ixzz2VRiMWrTw

Is there a limit on what ammunition companies are allowed to produce? I know it takes factories and man power, but you think that the makes would just ramp up production to meet demand.

Is there a limit on what ammunition companies are allowed to produce? I know it takes factories and man power, but you think that the makes would just ramp up production to meet demand.

 

This has been speculated over and over for the past 5 yrs since Obama got elected. Most if not all ammo companies are producing around the clock three shifts to fill orders. The only thing it seems they will not do is fund a large expansion on the fears that either the buying binge will stop, or laws restricting ammo purchases would make their capital investment foolish. Its mostly been speculation but there have been a lot of companies come out and saying they are working at peak production capabilities.

Is there a limit on what ammunition companies are allowed to produce? I know it takes factories and man power, but you think that the makes would just ramp up production to meet demand.

 

There shouldn't be a mandated limit.  I'd imagine production has been ramped up to the extent it was fairly easy and cheap to do so.  The manufacturers all have to make their own predictions on what they think future demand will look like.   If the current situation is viewed as a 'bubble' in demand, it wouldn't make good business sense to make big capital investments in new or expanded production lines that will be underutilized in the future.

 

I've heard, but can't directly confiirm, that some of the issue we have finding reloading components is due to manufacturers diverting their own production of components into their ammo manufacturing business.    They're still cranking out primers, bullets, etc...but if they have an ammo production line to feed, that line gets first dibs.   Makes sense, actually.

Is there a limit on what ammunition companies are allowed to produce? I know it takes factories and man power, but you think that the makes would just ramp up production to meet demand

Manufacturers are running at full capacity. They can't increase more without capital investment, which wouldn't make sense unless they think this is the new normal.

With a manufacturing capacity of over 1 billion rounds a year, it's hard to imagine that the new normal will be much higher, unless there's enough permanent interest in shooting that Americans burn through more than that.

There shouldn't be a mandated limit. I'd imagine production has been ramped up to the extent it was fairly easy and cheap to do so. The manufacturers all have to make their own predictions on what they think future demand will look like. If the current situation is viewed as a 'bubble' in demand, it wouldn't make good business sense to make big capital investments in new or expanded production lines that will be underutilized in the future.

 

I've heard, but can't directly confiirm, that some of the issue we have finding reloading components is due to manufacturers diverting their own production of components into their ammo manufacturing business. They're still cranking out primers, bullets, etc...but if they have an ammo production line to feed, that line gets first dibs. Makes sense, actually.

I would argue this is absolutely false. Ammo manufacturers don't use canister powders for their ammo. Primer companies are still cranking them out. Bullet makers are still running full production.

 

One of the vps of Sierra released a statement recently on the fed ammo buy and their production basically to the effect of it being completely unrelated. I'll find the link and post it.

Does anyone in Congress even understand how government procurement works?

 

Or do they think the Marines just swing by Cabelas before each deployment?

Does anyone in Congress even understand how government procurement works?

Or do they think the Marines just swing by Cabelas before each deployment?

Last time I checked the Marines don't fall under DHS.

 

The vast majority of DHS ammo usage is for scheduled training.

It should be very easy to track where these request for ammo come from.

 

The problem is DHS has been caught lying.

First time they were asked, they answered that it was a bulk buy by all agencies to get a better price.

 

Second time they were asked, they answered We aren't really purchasing that much its just a pricing exercise.

 

So either they are lying or completely incompetant or both.

Last time I checked the Marines don't fall under DHS.

 

The vast majority of DHS ammo usage is for scheduled training.

It should be very easy to track where these request for ammo come from.

 

The problem is DHS has been caught lying.

First time they were asked, they answered that it was a bulk buy by all agencies to get a better price.

 

Second time they were asked, they answered We aren't really purchasing that much its just a pricing exercise.

 

So either they are lying or completely incompetant or both.

a govt. agency lie? NO!? say it ain't so!!

Last time I checked the Marines don't fall under DHS.

 

The vast majority of DHS ammo usage is for scheduled training.

It should be very easy to track where these request for ammo come from.

 

The problem is DHS has been caught lying.

First time they were asked, they answered that it was a bulk buy by all agencies to get a better price.

 

Second time they were asked, they answered We aren't really purchasing that much its just a pricing exercise.

 

So either they are lying or completely incompetant or both.

I vove for BOTH!

I vove for BOTH!

Agreed!

Does anyone in Congress even understand how government procurement works?

 

Or do they think the Marines just swing by Cabelas before each deployment?

I hope not, cause they wouldn't get shit for ammo.

Last time I checked the Marines don't fall under DHS.

My mistake, I failed to identify that part of my post as sarcasm.

 

So no, Marines don't, but others like Customs, Immigration, Secret Service and the U.S. Coast Guard do. And my point stands: if you want the services to function, give them tools to do their job. Things in the government take time, and the contracts and a supply chain need to be in place.

 

Of course, the tin-foil hat types, who think agencies operate with a single voice and purpose see conspiracies and lies everywhere - YMMV.

 

Personally I think Congress should stop wasting time and work on more important issues.

I hope not, cause they wouldn't get shit for ammo.

So true... lol