I think if people stopped breaking into houses and I felt safe to let my kids play in the yard that would be a positive outcome.

 

That's something police can't do for you. It's something you have to do for yourself. Just like most things in life.

 

Fair point, but at the same time, while you're paying for the police, might as well use them. JMO

Fair point, but at the same time, while you're paying for the police, might as well use them. JMO

 

that argument can be made for not needing the ability to carry a gun..... the police are available so you dont really need a gun..

 

a neighbor that would get out of his car in the rain and follow someone suspicious is a neighbor I would love to have... too bad there are not more neighbors like that filled with people that dont just look the other way... because it would create safer neighborhoods...

that argument can be made for not needing the ability to carry a gun..... the police are available so you dont really need a gun..

 

a neighbor that would get out of his car in the rain and follow someone suspicious is a neighbor I would love to have... too bad there are not more neighbors like that filled with people that dont just look the other way... because it would create safer neighborhoods...

agree

that argument can be made for not needing the ability to carry a gun..... the police are available so you dont really need a gun..

 

a neighbor that would get out of his car in the rain and follow someone suspicious is a neighbor I would love to have... too bad there are not more neighbors like that filled with people that dont just look the other way... because it would create safer neighborhoods...

 

Not at all. Carrying a gun is for immediate protection from harm. While the argument could be made that TM was going to break into a house and harm the occupants, I maintain that the far more prudent option was to hang back and let the police conduct a search of the area.

 

Again, once the altercation took place, all bets were off, and GZ was absolutely justified in protecting himself.

Anyone who thought he was guilty was one of 4 things

 

Didn't pay attention to the evidence

 

Don't understand the law

 

Let emotion control them

 

Has an agenda

Not at all. Carrying a gun is for immediate protection from harm. While the argument could be made that TM was going to break into a house and harm the occupants, I maintain that the far more prudent option was to hang back and let the police conduct a search of the area.

 

Again, once the altercation took place, all bets were off, and GZ was absolutely justified in protecting himself.

the problem with that is we can do what ifs all day long

 

What if he did exactly that, TM broke in and seriously hurt or killed someone and in the rain got away? 

 

I'll remind you that the evidence, lie detector test, and everything compiled corroborated what Zim said happened.  If that's the case, Zim did absolutely nothing wrong unless we make it a crime to follow people much less doing so in your own gated community.

He didn't initiate the encounter nor did start the confrontation, he passed 2 lie detector tests, evidence from the bushes corroborated his story as well.  He didn't initiate anything and was jumped by Trayvon while going back to his car.  IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO FOLLOW SOMEONE.  Also, he's neighborhood watch doing exactly what neighborhood watch does which is observe and report on suspicious activity.  Is this not what he did?

Following the kid is initiating the encounter.

What if he did exactly that, TM broke in and seriously hurt or killed someone and in the rain got away? 

 

In all honesty, shame on the person whose home TM broke into. They should have been better prepared, the onus is on them to handle their immediate protection, and not rely on others.

Free at last, thank God almighty, free at last. M.L.K.

Not at all. Carrying a gun is for immediate protection from harm. While the argument could be made that TM was going to break into a house and harm the occupants, I maintain that the far more prudent option was to hang back and let the police conduct a search of the area.

 

Again, once the altercation took place, all bets were off, and GZ was absolutely justified in protecting himself.

 

 

I am not even assuming he was going to do something wrong.... 

but what I am more concerned with is the mindset of someone that actually cares.. someone that does not just look the other way...  it is more of a mindset.. 

now that I agree with Jon, you have to be able to protect your home

I am not even assuming he was going to do something wrong.... 

but what I am more concerned with is the mindset of someone that actually cares.. someone that does not just look the other way...  it is more of a mindset.. 

 

Absolutely. That mindset, in the particular neighborhood, should have been to call the cops. GZ was being a fantastic neighbor IMO until he left the vehicle.

Personally, if I thought some crazy dude was following me and I had a cell phone I would call the police with it and go home.

 

I certainly wouldn't jump the guy in a state with concealed carry laws.

 

 

 

 

 

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some really pathetic responses from the sports community, especially the first one.  really pathetic..  not really all that surprised about them though..  no one ever said that sports figures were intelligent or impartial..

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/9476243/athletes-react-george-zimmerman-found-not-guilty-trayvon-martin-case

 

one of the postes on the bottom wrote:

 

"Leave the neighborhood watching to the POLICE........... 

 

PLEASE.......... "

 

I'm curious what his response would be if TM was bashing a cop's head against the ground and the cop shot him in self-defense...

Even being found not guilty, his life will be in shambles for a long long time. He'll constantly be looking over his shoulder a s fearing for his, and his family's, safety.

 

The ironic thing is if he moves to NJ even he wouldn't have enough justification for a CCW.

"Stand Your Ground" law is not applicable in this case.  This law says that you do not have to retreat when threatened, and may be justified to use deadly force.  GZ didn't have an option to retreat anyway, so it was plain and clear self-defense.
Imaging if the jury found him guilty.  That would in essence mean that there is no right for self defense at all.  If you're in a process of getting killed, your only legal choice is to get killed.  Anything else is illegal.

that argument can be made for not needing the ability to carry a gun..... the police are available so you dont really need a gun..

 

a neighbor that would get out of his car in the rain and follow someone suspicious is a neighbor I would love to have... too bad there are not more neighbors like that filled with people that dont just look the other way... because it would create safer neighborhoods.

The argument can be made, but I believe it's flawed. The police have no duty to protect you in the moment. Their duty is to investigate the crime, get good photos of your perforated, dead, body, and gather evidence to support a prosecution. If they can get there quickly enough to protect you while you're still alive, that's great. But they have no duty to do so.

I can honestly say this, I finaly agree with President Obama on something. Yes indeed, if he had a son he would be just like Trevon Martin.

some really pathetic responses from the sports community, especially the first one.  really pathetic..  not really all that surprised about them though..  no one ever said that sports figures were intelligent or impartial..

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/9476243/athletes-react-george-zimmerman-found-not-guilty-trayvon-martin-case

They are catering to there "crowd" ignorant people ... Most dont care about the evidence and facts they see only black vs white...

This case should never have gone to court, which was what the initial decision was before the media got involved to stir up the pot.

Exactly. As the police chief said (something to the effect of), "They wanted us to arrest him without probable cause; they didn't care what happened after we arrested him, they just wanted an arrest. We can't do that. We can't arrest someone without probable cause. You just don't do that."

 

The stupid media just got crazy emotional and turned people into a lynch mob.

 

 

O"Mara just had a great point - "This "in your heart" stuff, is not what they're supposed to do..." and I meant to address that.  The Prosecutors wanted reverse jury nullification.

 

If you're not 101% familiar, jury nullification would be something along the lines of , the jurors find someone not guilty when it's clear he/she is guilty ... basically saying "We don't care we think the person was justified breaking the law" OR " we don't agree with the law".  There have been excellent examples on Law and Order episodes.  I think one episode in the later years of the show involved a hot blonde therapist running down "JACOB LOWENSTEIN" a coke head pysch doc who was imprisoned in the earliest years of LnO, then released but still a monster, and she killed him with her car because he was still seeking to have a family (to abuse).  The jury said not guilty, ie "We don't care she broke the law".

 

THESE PROSECUTORS basically wanted the jurors to say "It's not against the law but WE DON'T LIKE IT, WE DON'T AGREE WITH IT, WE DON'T SIT ON THAT SIDE OF THE FENCE, SO WE WANT YOU TO THROW HIM IN JAIL" and quite literally argued for this.  And that is absolutely wrong and those guys deserve formal prosecutorial misconduct reprimands or worse.

You're absolutely right. People don't care that no crime was committed - they just want a conviction of something so they feel they did "something" ... and it's totally ridiculous

What possible good could have come from following someone in the rain at night?

 

I guess as good as wearing a hoodie and walking between houses you dont own

They are catering to there "crowd" ignorant people ... Most dont care about the evidence and facts they see only black vs white...

 

These are prob the same people that cheered OJ's "NOT GUILTY" verdict. Not surprising at all

I guess as good as wearing a hoodie and walking between houses you dont own

 

It would appear that way given the outcome! And yes, from what I've read and seen, TM was nothing more than an idiot wanna-be gangbanger ass.

In the end its OVER for now.

 

This case was racial from day 1.  GZ was prosecuted by the media the minute the story broke starting with the picture of TM when he was  an infant.

 

The media setup by the Lawyers from TM parents caused this entire fiasco. The only part of the story that was not based on race was GM's initial contact with TM. I in my heart believe he just saw someone that looked out of place and acting out of place.

 

Im not going to even touch the points should GZ have stayed in the car etc etc as i was not there and its easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. Any of us in the same situation prob would have done the exact same thing.

 

Based on the fact the escalation started after they met face to face. while we only really heard GZ's side of the story based on the fact and my personal interaction with wanna be thugs it makes perfect sense.  These Wanna be's don't respect any authority including police and there own parents, how do you think TM would have reacted to GZ saying "Hey what are you doing here"? Do you think he would have said my dad lives down the street or was it met with aggression. 

 

This might stem from the environment TM was brought up in, His parents should have taught him when you leave the hood you better the that hoodish behavior behind as its not accepted in civilized society. Anyone on this forum no matter there race knows exactly what that thugish behavior is. You see it at movie theaters, Amusement parks, Eateries and any place else you will encounter them.

 

If there was ever a teaching moment for people who live in the "hood" Teach your children how to behave in society. This case might have never happened if TM parents instilled in him a sense of respect for the law and a general understanding of how the world works.

I would like to thank the Mainstream Media and all the race baiters for bring racism back into full force.

This has only just begun, unfortunately there will be blood in the water.

It's a shame that it got to where it did....

In the end its OVER for now.

 

This case was racial from day 1.  GZ was prosecuted by the media the minute the story broke starting with the picture of TM when he was  an infant.

 

The media setup by the Lawyers from TM parents caused this entire fiasco. The only part of the story that was not based on race was GM's initial contact with TM. I in my heart believe he just saw someone that looked out of place and acting out of place.

 

Im not going to even touch the points should GZ have stayed in the car etc etc as i was not there and its easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. Any of us in the same situation prob would have done the exact same thing.

 

Based on the fact the escalation started after they met face to face. while we only really heard GZ's side of the story based on the fact and my personal interaction with wanna be thugs it makes perfect sense.  These Wanna be's don't respect any authority including police and there own parents, how do you think TM would have reacted to GZ saying "Hey what are you doing here"? Do you think he would have said my dad lives down the street or was it met with aggression. 

 

This might stem from the environment TM was brought up in, His parents should have taught him when you leave the hood you better the that hoodish behavior behind as its not accepted in civilized society. Anyone on this forum no matter there race knows exactly what that thugish behavior is. You see it at movie theaters, Amusement parks, Eateries and any place else you will encounter them.

 

If there was ever a teaching moment for people who live in the "hood" Teach your children how to behave in society. This case might have never happened if TM parents instilled in him a sense of respect for the law and a general understanding of how the world works.

Well said

I can see this type stuff happening more often in the future. Years ago we could vote with our feet and leave a place that turned thuggish and ghetto.

Now the Govt forces us to take them with us by setting aside apartments for them plus you cant just keep moving further away from work as it is.

So people are now digging in and fighting back more often. So these clashes of cultures will happen more often .

Each era has its moniker. I think the next era will be the era of cultural clashes.

 Did you read all the nuances of the trial or just watch cnn?

 

i guess you didn't read my post. i admitted that i didn't follow the trial closely. so maybe there were no laws broken, but i'll expand on my personal opinion in a minute. also, these kind of snide remarks filled with negativity are the reason i don't get on here much anymore. whats the point of sticking together if we keep attacking one another?

 

He didn't initiate the encounter nor did start the confrontation, he passed 2 lie detector tests, evidence from the bushes corroborated his story as well.  He didn't initiate anything and was jumped by Trayvon while going back to his car.  IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO FOLLOW SOMEONE.  Also, he's neighborhood watch doing exactly what neighborhood watch does which is observe and report on suspicious activity.  Is this not what he did?

 

 

so what does neighborhood watch do then, stay home in the house and watch tv?  He lived in a gated community and was doing exactly what neighborhood programs used to teach.  You observe, report and maintain a distance or at least that is what the police told us when we had one in a community I lived in.

 

let me ask you this then. your on the neighborhood watch program and you happen to see a drug deal go down in your little gated community. not your every day thing right? do you follow the dealer? what if you happened to see his piece sticking out of the waste band? still following? ok so lets say you follow him and he gets into a car with 3 of his buddys in it? still following? even with a ccw your an IDIOT if you followed after any of these stages.

 

ccw, you have a gun in case he comes at you... but your being a stupid vigilante if you think following him is a good idea. why the F would you put yourself at risk? keep an eye on him from where you are..

 

i'm not even going to bother going further some will side with me others won't either way the negativity on this board will not change.

After all is said and done, it's a tragedy that someone had to die..

 

BUT, had Trayvon Martin still been alive, his sorry butt would have been convicted of a felony.

 

http://nyencore.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/trayvon-martin-gun-photo-2-052313.jpg

 

You can't legally get a handgun as a 17-year-old.

 

After all is said and done, it's a tragedy that someone had to die..

 

BUT, had Trayvon Martin still been alive, his sorry but would have been convicted of a felony.

 

http://nyencore.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/trayvon-martin-gun-photo-2-052313.jpg

 

You can't legally get a handgun as a 17-year-old.

 

 

Is that true in Florida? I think the only federal law is 21 to purchase from an FFL. I know you can own handguns at 18 in PA because that is our state law. I always assumed there were states that you could own a handgun younger.

 

EDIT: OK, Florida is 18 as well. I checked Alaska for comparison, age is 16 (younger if allowed by guardian).