Saturday September 7, 2013

Cumberland Riflemen

Millville, NJ

Open to all

 

Details at:

http://www.cumberlandmatches.com/mrfclass.html

 

Contact me for more info

 

These matches are a helluva lot of fun

You can shoot slung up or with a bipod

You can shoot iron sights or scoped

Prone position from the concrete pad on the covered firing line

Butt of rifle must be in your shoulder

What caliber do you guys typically shoot at these? I've been eyeing a 243 for long distance. Tell me if I've been led astray.

.243 is 6mm which is used by a lot of the match rifle shooters.

Personally, I use a .223 left handed match rifle (which began life as a Stag 24" varmint upper)

The 6mm shoots flatter than .223, but that's why we have knobs to turn on our sights ;-)

Sounds like fun. PM sent.

 

.243 is 6mm which is used by a lot of the match rifle shooters.

Personally, I use a .223 left handed match rifle (which began life as a Stag 24" varmint upper)

The 6mm shoots flatter than .223, but that's why we have knobs to turn on our sights ;-)

Haha ok. How does the 223 handle wind drift and such? Just to compare to the 243 (which is what I've been researching lately), the 243 is much faster and has a higher bc so supposedly more accurate. I've never tried my ars out past 200 yards since I've always thought I needed a purpose built rig to really do anything past 2-300 yds.

.243 bucks the wind better than .223 in general

The heavier bullets (95 and 107gr HPBT) help a lot

Part of the trick at 600yds is reading the conditions (esp the wind) and adjusting accordingly

 

For 600yds I use 80gr Sierra Match Kings, which do much better than the lighter 69gr MKs I run at 200 and 300yds

For 100yd matches I go the less expensive route and use Nosler 52gr match HPBT

Using Varget and CCI Small Rifle primers, my loads are the same, summer and winter.

 

First time I was at Cumberland back in 2009, I looked downrange from the 600yd line and all I could think was "holy crap - that's a looooong way down!!"

It's really a ton of fun shooting that distance, and who knows, it may come in very handy one day real soon.

One of these days I will get down there to try and see if I can even hit the target at that range with my M1 & iron sights.

.243 bucks the wind better than .223 in general

The heavier bullets (95 and 107gr HPBT) help a lot

Part of the trick at 600yds is reading the conditions (esp the wind) and adjusting accordingly

 

For 600yds I use 80gr Sierra Match Kings, which do much better than the lighter 69gr MKs I run at 200 and 300yds

For 100yd matches I go the less expensive route and use Nosler 52gr match HPBT

Using Varget and CCI Small Rifle primers, my loads are the same, summer and winter.

 

First time I was at Cumberland back in 2009, I looked downrange from the 600yd line and all I could think was "holy crap - that's a looooong way down!!"

It's really a ton of fun shooting that distance, and who knows, it may come in very handy one day real soon.

How hot of a load is that to hit 600 yards out of a gas gun with an 80 gn bullet?

 

Sorry for all the questions, just been really interested in this type of shooting lately.

If it's an M1-A, no problem.

If it's an M1 Garand, that's another story.

If it's an M1 Carbine, bring your own lube, cause Bubba's coming over later for the welcome party.

For 600yds I run my 1/8 twist 24" barrel .223 Stag with a Sierra 80gr HPBT Match King (#9390) over 24.0gr Hodgdon Varget and CCI small rifle primer at about 2.540" COAL

It's all single shot load, so they're way longer than will fit in a mag. You just don't want to jam them into the rifling.

My spotting scope only goes up to 45X. Is that enough to see a hit at that distance? Assuming I can hit anything at that distance!

At Cumberland, there's people in the pits pulling your targets and marking your shots.

A 45X spotting scope is plenty to see the 3" spotting disc on the face of the target.

And you can usually see the scoring disc with the naked eye.

 

Remember, competitors do more than just shoot.

You'll be squadded with 2 other shooters.

Two on the line (1 shooting, 1 scoring) and one in the pits (pulling and marking)

Bring a lawn-type chair or stool for your scoring duties

And you need to keep hydrated, so bring water or Gatorade or the like.

 

Registration starts at 8, first shot at 9, usually all done by 2

Is this rapid fire or slow fire or a mix cause it woul be intresting to bring my 03-a3 down to see what I can do with her

This 3x600 mid-range prone match is all slow fire.

Must load one round at a time (no magazine feed)

Hey Brian, if I'm not working I should be able to make it

M1 as in M1. I had a hard time hitting the 300y at cjrpc at first, till i figured out what I was doing wrong. I would probably bring some higher end ammo, i dont think HXP would be good to get me/on target to start.

 

Ah well, i can dream, i wont even be making any cmp matches at cj this year. Too much going on with family stuff. Be lucky if i get to shoot at all again before halloween

 

If it's an M1-A, no problem.

If it's an M1 Garand, that's another story.

If it's an M1 Carbine, bring your own lube, cause Bubba's coming over later for the welcome party.

I'd love to try it, but will be out of state. 

 

I have to ask, how big are these targets? I can't imagine being able to see much with my eyes at 600 yards unless they are HUGE.........

 

Bummer, I bought a X-Bolt in 7mm Mag just to try this type of competition out with and I won't be around. Maybe some other time.

The black center of the 600yd target is 36" dia.

It appears the same as the 6" bull at 100yd, the 12" bull at 200yd and the 18" bull at 300yd.

 

Fear not - the next date after this match is Saturday October 5th

 

Then we shift gears and shoot the "Frozen Nutz" matches (300yd prone) at SJSC, most likely November thru March, always the 3rd Sunday of the month.

Watch for details as we get closer.

Interesting. 

2.5 hours drive on one hand (get up at 5am ). 

Chance to shoot at 600 yards on another hand. 

Seeing faces (if I score well) after shooting my converted 223 Saiga - priceless. 

About 20 years ago I've qualified with 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 at 400 meters (437 yards), but 600 yards is a different story. At 600y 223 has about 108 inches (2.75 meters) drop... 

Would I get a chance to shoot few rounds before the competition to adjust scope/irons?

Given that you're coming in without an NRA classification, you'll be competing as an Unclassified Master.

Chances of scoring in the money are pretty slim, so use as many of your first 22 shots as sighters so you can get serious during the second and third matches. (Each match is 2 sighters followed by 20 record shots)

 

With .223, the comeup from 300 to 600 is about 11 m.o.a.

Hey Brian, if I'm not working I should be able to make it

If you can't make it Saturday, come down Sunday for the 2-3-6 cross-the-course match

It'll be nice to see you putting some scores up towards your Master card right off the bat!

They always have the across the course match the same time were having the match at USANA.

The black center of the 600yd target is 36" dia.

It appears the same as the 6" bull at 100yd, the 12" bull at 200yd and the 18" bull at 300yd.

 

Fear not - the next date after this match is Saturday October 5th

 

Then we shift gears and shoot the "Frozen Nutz" matches (300yd prone) at SJSC, most likely November thru March, always the 3rd Sunday of the month.

Watch for details as we get closer.

Thanks. I will see if I can make the October 5th match. I can sight-in my Browning at my club at 100 yards. What should I do to try to get it ready for 600 yards? I can look at the different 7mm mag ammo I bought and try to determine how much it will drop. I may be able to get someone to guest me in at CJ, I think they have a 300 yard range.

In .223 it's about 5 m.o.a from 100 to 300

 

Add the 11 m.o.a from 300 to 600 and you've got roughly 16 m.o.a comeup from your 100yd zero to get on the paper at 600

You're talking a foreign language to me with MOA. While I have heard of it, I do not understand it. I will find out what the typical drop on my particular ammo will be. As mentioned above by another poster, his .223 bullet will drop about 108 inches at 600 yards, that's a lot. I have no idea what kind of adjustments my scope has. At-worst, I aim much higher than the target and hope I guess right. But hopefully I will be better prepared than that.

You're talking a foreign language to me with MOA. While I have heard of it, I do not understand it. I will find out what the typical drop on my particular ammo will be. As mentioned above by another poster, his .223 bullet will drop about 108 inches at 600 yards, that's a lot. I have no idea what kind of adjustments my scope has. At-worst, I aim much higher than the target and hope I guess right. But hopefully I will be better prepared than that.

 

Take a look at this chart, Mike.

 

Understanding Minutes of Angle:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=90809

Post #1 in this thread gives a pretty good explanation

I won't copy and paste it here, but follow the link and check it out

 

 

The short story is:

1 MOA = 1/60th of 1 Degree
Just like there are 60 Minutes in an Hour, there are 60 Minutes in a Degree.
The Minute of Angle unit is useful to shooters because the math works out (after a negligible rounding down) that our target shot group sizes, when measured in inches, can be easily converted into MOA. That is because:
1 MOA = 1” PER 100 Yards

 

With rifle shooting at distance, such as this 600yd match, the shooter will need to adjust his sights so that he can aim precisely at the bullseye on the target (in the 600yd case, the bull is 36" diameter) and if everything is done right (and conditions co-operate!) the shot should land precisely at the point of aim.

 

You can adjust for the bullet drop at distance by raising your rear sight, or lowering your front sight, or some of both.

 

But you do need to establish a baseline zero (usually 100yds) and know the adjustment rate of your sights (AR rear sights come in 1/2 moa and 1/4 moa per click flavors)

AR front sight posts are approximately 5moa per full revolution

You're talking a foreign language to me with MOA. While I have heard of it, I do not understand it. I will find out what the typical drop on my particular ammo will be. As mentioned above by another poster, his .223 bullet will drop about 108 inches at 600 yards, that's a lot. I have no idea what kind of adjustments my scope has. At-worst, I aim much higher than the target and hope I guess right. But hopefully I will be better prepared than that.

You can use a ballistics calculator like this:

 

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator

 

Put in your info and it will tell you your holdover in moa and mils. 

 

You can download an app to your phone like Strelok and it will give you your hold over and how many clicks for your scope.

Ok I understand MOA as in at 600 yards 1 MOA would be 6 inches but mils are a mystery to me anyone have a good website that can explain it to me

http://www.nssfblog.com/nssf-video-understanding-minutes-of-angle/