Is it legal to purchase a standard capacity (30 rnd) magazine rebuild kit?  

 

This rebuild kit is a complete, unassembled magazine.  Is there a constructive intent clause on magazines?

 

I do know there is constructive intent on assault rifles -- can't possess all the parts to build one...

 

I been looking for the answer, on and off,  for a few days now and my head is spinning looking at NJ gun law crap

no

just to be more clear...

the law states it is illegal to have a mag that is capable of accepting more than 15 rounds..

even if a mag is in pieces it is still capable of accepting ammunition.. the magazine apart or not still can easily be put together to make a functioning large capacity mag.. thus illegal under NJ law.. IMO.. 

^^^^^^^^

 

not legal to have a rebuild kit capable of holding over 15 rounds..

So long as you have the kit shipped to an address outside the State of New Jersey, like a free State,  and only bring those parts you need into N.J., excluding those parts that can be used to increase magazine capacity beyond 15 it is perfectly legal. You can also keep the entire 30 round mag outside N.J. for your use if you travel to a free State. You cannot have all the parts in NJ at the same time.

Thats what I thought --  Just can't find anything that relates to mag parts in the confusing statutes -- doesn't mean it's not there - Just that I can't find it

 

In reality a bag of standard capacity mag parts is just that ----  Parts  --- can't feed anything into anything with a bag of parts ---  

 

In reality a bag of standard capacity mag parts is just that ----  Parts  --- can't feed anything into anything with a bag of parts ---

 

I disagree....

 

A mag can be disassembled for cleaning... Taking a mag apart does not stop it from being a magazine...

I disagree....

 

A mag can be disassembled for cleaning... Taking a mag apart does not stop it from being a magazine...

 

But it does stop it from being able to feed ammunition into a semi auto rifle --- 

But it does stop it from being able to feed ammunition into a semi auto rifle ---

 

But is it capable of doing so?

 

Yes it is capable of doing so....

 

 

Think about this.... Make a sawed off shotgun... Then take the barrel off and sit it next to the gun... At that point it can't fire right? But good luck getting out if that charge in court....

 

Disassembling a magazine does not remove its capability to feed rounds....

NJ states that a temporary change does not change a magazine being large capacity...

 

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

The important note is that a temporary change to a large capacity mag means it's still a large capacity mag...

 

Prosecutor stands in front of court explaining how you had a stockpile if large capacity magazines...

He shows the two seconds it takes to snap it together...

He then discusses that the temporary change you made to the mag by taking it apart does not satisfy the law....

Is it legal to purchase a standard capacity (30 rnd) magazine rebuild kit?  

 

This rebuild kit is a complete, unassembled magazine.  Is there a constructive intent clause on magazines?

 

I do know there is constructive intent on assault rifles -- can't possess all the parts to build one...

 

I been looking for the answer, on and off,  for a few days now and my head is spinning looking at NJ gun law crap

 

Can those parts be used to build something else that is completely legal? Or can those parts be used to replace parts in legally modified magazines that you own? If so, I can't see how they can get you on "constructive intent". NJ probably isn't the place to test but mens rea matters when it comes to being guilty of a crime. Unfortunately the law and its practical application are two different things. I would consult a lawyer. 

Can those parts be used to build something else that is completely legal? Or can those parts be used to replace parts in legally modified magazines that you own? If so, I can't see how they can get you on "constructive intent". NJ probably isn't the place to test but mens rea matters when it comes to being guilty of a crime. Unfortunately the law and its practical application are two different things. I would consult a lawyer.

 

Once again... It's not even constructive intent...

 

A magazine is a sum of parts... Even if it is apart it is still a gun magazine...

NJ specifically says...

You can NOT have a large capacity mag....

It goes on to say a large capacity mag is STILL a large capacity mag even if some temporary condition is created to negate its ability to function as a large capacity mag...

 

It specifically says

 

An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

Temporarily blocked OR modified and it's STILL a large cap mag...

Disassembly does not negate what it is per NJ wording...

Who is going to tell on ya seriously just don't drive around with them and no one will know

Who is going to tell on ya seriously just don't drive around with them and no one will know

He asked if it was legal, not if anyone would find out if he broke the law.

Who is going to tell on ya seriously just don't drive around with them and no one will know

While fire investigators investigated a house fire Wednesday evening state police were called in to investigate a cache of high capacity mags and assault weapons....

 

Don't assume just because you are careful something stupid can't happen.... And if it does... That's the rest of your law abiding life...

 

Not worth it IMO

Once again... It's not even constructive intent...

 

A magazine is a sum of parts... Even if it is apart it is still a gun magazine...

NJ specifically says...

You can NOT have a large capacity mag....

It goes on to say a large capacity mag is STILL a large capacity mag even if some temporary condition is created to negate its ability to function as a large capacity mag...

 

It specifically says

 

An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

Temporarily blocked OR modified and it's STILL a large cap mag...

Disassembly does not negate what it is per NJ wording...

I think you missed my point. What I was saying was that technically the state is supposed to have to prove intent. That is why a farmer with 1000 lbs of ammonium nitrate and hundreds of gallons of diesel is likely ok and a suspected terrorist with those same items is going to be thrown into a dark hole. Everything is a sum of its parts but those parts aren't, on their own, a part of a particular sum - unless there is only one possible use for that part. If this wasn't the case everyone with a basic metal shop in their garage could be arrested for something. The parts of the kit, KIT not magazine, do not have the same capabilities as a magazine. Furthermore those parts can be used to build/repair a standard 30 rnd mag or a modified 15/30. I'm not talking about practical application. However, if there were an actual case of a person being caught with those kits and only 15/30 mags I could see them getting out of it. 

I think you missed my point. What I was saying was that technically the state is supposed to have to prove intent. That is why a farmer with 1000 lbs of ammonium nitrate and hundreds of gallons of diesel is likely ok and a suspected terrorist with those same items is going to be thrown into a dark hole. Everything is a sum of its parts but those parts aren't, on their own, a part of a particular sum - unless there is only one possible use for that part. If this wasn't the case everyone with a basic metal shop in their garage could be arrested for something. The parts of the kit, KIT not magazine, do not have the same capabilities as a magazine. Furthermore those parts can be used to build/repair a standard 30 rnd mag or a modified 15/30. I'm not talking about practical application. However, if there were an actual case of a person being caught with those kits and only 15/30 mags I could see them getting out of it.

 

A disassembled large capacity mag is not illegal because of intent...

It is illegal because the state plainly states that a large capacity mag that is temporarily modified to not be a large capacity mag is still illegal...

 

The prosecutor will say

In NJ you can only have a large capacity mag if it has been permanently modified to no longer be a large capacity mag...

He will then take the 5 seconds to snap it together illustrating that you do in fact have a large capacity mag...

 

Intent would matter if this was not clearly stated....

An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine......

So the way I am reading that...technically the "15/30" pmags/etc sold with the sole pop rivet in the back rib is unacceptable?....

So the way I am reading that...technically the "15/30" pmags/etc sold with the sole pop rivet in the back rib is unacceptable?....

That is technically true imo (per the reading of the law)

 

There is no provision for how a mag must be altered with the exception of the fact that it must be "permanent".... A rivet is not imo permanent....

That is technically true imo (per the reading of the law)

There is no provision for how a mag must be altered with the exception of the fact that it must be "permanent".... A rivet is not imo permanent....

Reading your previous quote of the law...I don't see a difference from the "pin" named..or a pop rivet.....knock out a pin on the 15/30 it takes 30...knock out the pop rivet it takes 30.... I'd say "permanently" modified..would be like the cut 15 gi mags I bought locally which I believe are the pk90 ones....and I'm assuming the new 15rnd pmags from Midwest would be the ones to stand up to legal scrutiny (if there's a chance of that in nj lol)

 

I'm now seriously considering getting rid of all the 15/30 mags I've gotten based on the communal opinion that they were g2g....

Reading your previous quote of the law...I don't see a difference from the "pin" named..or a pop rivet.....knock out a pin on the 15/30 it takes 30...knock out the pop rivet it takes 30.... I'd say "permanently" modified..would be like the cut 15 gi mags I bought locally which I believe are the pk90 ones....and I'm assuming the new 15rnd pmags from Midwest would be the ones to stand up to legal scrutiny (if there's a chance of that in nj lol)

I'm now seriously considering getting rid of all the 15/30 mags I've gotten based on the communal opinion that they were g2g....

I agree with your enterpretation of the law...

 

Cut down to 15

OR

Modded in such a way that trying to return to a capacity over 15 would destroy the mag (epoxy or welded floor plates blocked)

Vlad -- I do understand where you are coming from and no way in hell am I going to test the theory but why the does the statute absolutely say, when defining an assault rifle, that even all the parts to make an assault rifle are considered an assault rifle  --  constructive intent --

 

 

It does not define parts of a standard capacity mag as being considered a standard capacity mag --  Now it does say modified -- not dissasembled -- that disassembled mag, no matter how hard you try,   will not feed more than 15 rounds into a semi automatic firearm -- not until it's assembled  --  Is constructive intent spelled out in any of the laws regarding standard capacity mags?  

 

 

I personally do not believe that an aluminum pop rivet is in any way permanently altering a magazine to only hold 15 rounds --  takes a drill and 4 or 5 seconds to remove

 

I could also easily weld 2 15 round mags together, change a spring, and have a larger than 15 round capacity mag --  is that now illegal --  somewhere that constructive intent has to be defined

 

 

 

It's all just chatter anyway -- I saw that thread from midwest about the cut down pmags -- and though to myself how easy that would be to do -- and google brought me to the mag repair kits

a magazing body spring floorplate and follower is still a mag.. it is simply taken apart... taking a mag a part... allowing a prosecutor to hang you in court... 

 

that is the issue... 

the way the law is written NO large capacity mags are allowed in ANY way..

they are ONLY allowed if permanently modified to NOT hold more than 15...

 

that is the stance of the state as illustrated by the language of the law.. 

- I saw that thread from midwest about the cut down pmags -- and though to myself how easy that would be to do -- and google brought me to the mag repair kits

I agree the cutting to the correct length would be elementary ...while the cutting the spring to correct length for acceptable reliability would initially be a concern to me... the major thing that stopped me whacking a pmag down is having a "bottom" that doesn't look backyard bubbasmithed.... Perhaps there's a product sold for this purpose that I haven't come across (haven't actually looked though)...this thread has spurred me to start looking for a solution .....have a LOT of mags to cut lol

I know of a very reputable gun store in NJ that sells 30 round AK mags with a pop rivet limiting the follower to 15 rounds. I am not saying that I would roll the dice with these but due to the high volume of guns and accessories that they sell on a daily basis, I would like to assume that they know what is good to go and what's not.

I know of a very reputable gun store in NJ that sells 30 round AK mags with a pop rivet limiting the follower to 15 rounds. I am not saying that I would roll the dice with these but due to the high volume of guns and accessories that they sell on a daily basis, I would like to assume that they know what is good to go and what's not.

I would say they are rolling the dice.

I know of a very reputable gun store in NJ that sells 30 round AK mags with a pop rivet limiting the follower to 15 rounds. I am not saying that I would roll the dice with these but due to the high volume of guns and accessories that they sell on a daily basis, I would like to assume that they know what is good to go and what's not.

That's the premise I operated on....but seeing the law in print here has me wondering... Not knowing what shop you are referring to or to belittle any shop in particular ...think about "gun law" discussions with gun shop employees on a whole...with as much wrong info that is given from behind the counter... I now realize my former theory is flawed...lol

I would say they are rolling the dice.

They are rolling the dice per literal writing of the law

 to be fed continuously and directly
therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm

 

This is the part of the law that I am going to focus on for the moment --  A bag of magazine parts, although still a magazine, is not capable of feeding a semi auto firearm

 

I can easily stick more than 15 .22 rimfire shells into my 7 round .45 acp mag -- so it is capable of holding more than 15 rounds --  it is not capable of feeding those rounds into a firearm -- same as a bag of disassembled parts

 

 

Could you imagine how much money would be spent arguing this in court??

Keep your eyes and ears open.   

 

Something amazing is coming.