I think the way it works is that when the bad guy pointed a gun at him he had justifieable need. However, instead of filling in a couple of forms, getting fingerprinted, waiting 30 days for his PD Chief to decide he actually had a justifiable need and then waiting a further 30 days for a superior court judge to agree and doing a qualification, the poor fellow lost his life.

 

If he had survived but the bad guy was no longer threatening him the justifiable need would no longer exist and he would be denied a permit. If a similar event were to occur again he would have to start again with the form filling.

 

As he did in fact lose his life justifiable need died with him as there is no urgent necessity to defend a dead man.

 

I just don't see why anyone can't see the sense in this.

It's just a shame he didn't have a rape whistle...

It's just a shame he didn't have a rape whistle...

 

C'mon.  A rape whistle is for a rape.  He needed a carjacking whistle.

It's just a shame he didn't have a rape whistle...

If his attackers had run off, they would have charged him with disturbing the peace

Not too seem dumb but why is this not in general discussion. I never even noticed this thread. Im going to be applying. Has anyone completed and filled everything yet? What did the local pd say?

Not too seem dumb but why is this not in general discussion.

 

did you read all 6 pages?

did you read all 6 pages?

I think so, im on the phone reading it so I think I got it all. Might have skipped a page. I know it's sn nj2as project. But honestly im on the forum everyday and just noticed this thread.

I think so, im on the phone reading it so I think I got it all. Might have skipped a page. I know it's sn nj2as project. But honestly im on the forum everyday and just noticed this thread.

How do you browse the forum.....section by section...or the "view new content" button?

I prefer to log on and hit that button ...shows all the recent posts...

How do you browse the forum.....section by section...or the "view new content" button?

I prefer to log on and hit that button ...shows all the recent posts...

Except that litterbox will not show up in new content. 

True....

and Litterbox is 'where it's at' as we used to say in the last century.

Check new content and also here frequently.

I have said that if people on this website don't even know about this project, it's unlikely that the vast majority of gun owners in NJ have ever heard of it. We really need to get the word out on this if it is to have any chance of success, and I have no idea how to do it.

How do you browse the forum.....section by section...or the "view new content" button?

I prefer to log on and hit that button ...shows all the recent posts...

Well normally section to section. And when on a computer I see recent new topics but.not posts. Either way like others.pointed out people dont know about this. Im on here everday and just found this by accident during a search it turned up.

I have said that if people on this website don't even know about this project, it's unlikely that the vast majority of gun owners in NJ have ever heard of it. We really need to get the word out on this if it is to have any chance of success, and I have no idea how to do it.

Get shops/ranges involved combined they come in contact with more than than the regs from this site and Facebook is in my opinion useless as the majority of users there either are probably indifferent or anti gun and think that "liking" a post is "taking action"lol

Well normally section to section. And when on a computer I see recent new topics but.not posts. Either way like others.pointed out people dont know about this. Im on here everday and just found this by accident during a search it turned up.

Have you tried clicking on this button... "View new content"?.... It shows all the new posts to topics across the board except for litterbox....and once on that page if you click on the time stamp under the posters name it takes you directly to the last post of the thread...especially helpful on threads with 40 pages of posts...lol

Have you tried clicking on this button... "View new content"?.... It shows all the new posts to topics across the board except for litterbox....

I have used it but I dont use it normally. I understand it has advantages of using. but for those that don't use it or check every section. I check current law pending law general litterbox and the the deals marketplace regularly. more people have to know about this. I dont think nj2as even emailed members about it. Im not complaining just saying we need to get info about this out. First posts were like december I found this thread in February and im on the forum every day.

I have used it but I dont use it normally. I understand it has advantages of using. but for those that don't use it or check every section. I check current law pending law general litterbox and the the deals marketplace regularly. more people have to know about this. I dont think nj2as even emailed members about it. Im not complaining just saying we need to get info about this out. First posts were like december I found this thread in February and im on the forum every day.

I gotcha ..sorry i misunderstood

I gotcha ..sorry i misunderstood

No worries. Im going to be going this week for paperwork and applying, using work reasons for justifiable need, was actually planning on applying before I found this thread. So how did anyone who applied make it?

Using work for a reason would restrict you to carrying at work. Unless that is what you want.

 

 

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Using work for a reason would restrict you to carrying at work. Unless that is what you want.

 

 

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Which is why I posted about the Short Hills Murder.

 

Justifiable need can not be shown until it is too late to be of any good.

Therefore, being a law abiding citizen who does not want to be a victim should be sufficient justification.

 

 

I understand. I would like to be able to carry at any time. But my main reason being work and carrying money making a target. If denied it would be similar to the pantano case (not sure of spelling). May not help the clasp mission. But maybe it will if denied.

I could be wrong bit if it is for work does your employee need to file on your behalf? If you are self employed, belay my last.

 

 

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I could be wrong bit if it is for work does your employee need to file on your behalf? If you are self employed, belay my last.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I believe you meant Employer - I don't think he CAN file on your behalf but I do think you need to supply a document from your Employer indicating your need for employment purposes with your application.

From my research and understanding as djg said you must apply and have a written letter from the employer. Even if its only to from and at work im still ok with that better than being unarmed at work.

I commend you for giving it a shot ...and I'm not belittling your effort/sacrifice in submitting the application....how ever I disagree that 20-41-100 denials will make a difference in this shithole state ....the evil at the reins of this abomination of a state don't want you to have a right guaranteed in the constitution .... And will lie cheat and manipulate the system to keep the status quo .....what needs to happen for the desired change is for everyone of them to be voted out of office...but the people that preach the loudest are the ones that don't vote...and half the gun community that does vote ...actually voted for the clowns in power....I'm constantly amazed at people I come across through work/military gun owning/carrying people that are far closer in beliefs with the anti/gun ban/ridiculous restrictions crowd....than me.....

 

It's a shame there can't be an origination in nj that could skip the Facebook jr hs popularity club bs and actually put together a plan to move things forward and organize the gun owners in nj....then maybe it would mean something to the politicians that play to the masses to keep their no good a$$es in office .....but an disorganized random smattering of 40 applications spread across the state will do little for the cause...call it being negative if you wish...but it's just the sad reality of the situation.....

 

getting shall issue CCW is quite easy in NJ. the NJ legislature is run by two groups of democratic powerhouses. we saw this work last year when cryan abstained on sweeney's fid bill and caused the commotion. some of these politicians aren't anti-gun like weinstein, they are pro-themselves. Buy one. if passing CCW, removing the AWB, and whatever else helps out them and their friends, they will do it.

 

so figure out how to get a few 10s of thousands of dollars in sweeney and Co.'s pockets or even better yet a few million in Norcross III's pocket, and you can have any gun laws you want.

getting shall issue CCW is quite easy in NJ. the NJ legislature is run by two groups of democratic powerhouses. we saw this work last year when cryan abstained on sweeney's fid bill and caused the commotion. some of these politicians aren't anti-gun like weinstein, they are pro-themselves. Buy one. if passing CCW, removing the AWB, and whatever else helps out them and their friends, they will do it.

 

so figure out how to get a few 10s of thousands of dollars in sweeney and Co.'s pockets or even better yet a few million in Norcross III's pocket, and you can have any gun laws you want.

Sadly, I believe you are %100 correct.

Here's my 2 internets..

 

I see a lot of complaining about how we don't have leadership to do this or it's a waste of time or whatever.  You know what... let's just do it.

Go file. Get as many people to file as possible. Keep records, document/record encounters, do everything you need to so that WHEN someone or some group comes along that can use that info we already have it.  Or, perhaps just by doing it we create a critical mass whereby someone with the pull we need gets interested and can put our individual hard work to collective good use.

 

How beautiful would it be if at some indeterminate future date a rally is organized and everyone who's been denied shows up WITH their paperwork in hand to be documented by someone with pull/power?

 

It has to start somewhere.  So... start!

 

And yes... I'm downloading the forms now for mine.

Here's my 2 internets..

 

I see a lot of complaining about how we don't have leadership to do this or it's a waste of time or whatever. You know what... let's just do it.

Go file. Get as many people to file as possible. Keep records, document/record encounters, do everything you need to so that WHEN someone or some group comes along that can use that info we already have it. Or, perhaps just by doing it we create a critical mass whereby someone with the pull we need gets interested and can put our individual hard work to collective good use.

 

How beautiful would it be if at some indeterminate future date a rally is organized and everyone who's been denied shows up WITH their paperwork in hand to be documented by someone with pull/power?

 

It has to start somewhere. So... start!

 

And yes... I'm downloading the forms now for mine.

 

Well said. No one is forcing anyone to do this. I am doing this because I am sick of hearing how NJ states they have a higher rate of CCW approval. It's only because no one tries that won't get approved! I have nothing to lose doing this.

 

 

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Has any progress been made on this?  Where does the project stand?

NJ2AS was very clear that they were not interested in right to carry.  They thought it made more sense to go after P2P delays.   After a near mutiny of members at a monthly meeting, they came out with project clasp but never really promoted it and ultimately let it die a natural death.

 

I think there is some momentum to make this happen now but it would need to be championed by someone and there isn't a someone to do it.

 

-Ryan

Isn't it more accurate to say that they were unable to secure enough people with the balls to follow through? That's how I remember it.