For HD, my back up guns are all revolvers.

I would never make that claim about mag springs, nor even question someone relying on semis (if their rifle/shotgun is out of the fight).

I trust the mechanics of quality bottom feeders just fine, but prefer revolvers as a hedge against operator error under stress.

 

The Mrs. prefers the revo I taught her how to shoot over 3 decades ago, so it's stands ready with Federal .38+P Hydroshocks.

 

I prefer my 12 ga. Pump which I've already used to circumvent a break-in, and my back-up is my .45 ACP 1911.

 

I'm a complicated, multi-disciplined, and multi-gunned man.  I can kill ya just as easy with a wheelie shooting black powder as a 12 ga. or an AR.  

 

These threads always evolve into which tool is better but often never touch on the BALLS and the MINDSET to get the job done COLD AND QUICK!  That about sums-up my feelins' for today!

 

Dave

Shootist

Just an extra two cents...don't worry about this "elastic limit" thing either. A spring in compression will clash before the yield strain is reached (unless something silly has happened, like it lost its heat treatment in a fire)

The Mrs. prefers the revo I taught her how to shoot over 3 decades ago, so it's stands ready with Federal .38+P Hydroshocks.

 

I prefer my 12 ga. Pump which I've already used to circumvent a break-in, and my back-up is my .45 ACP 1911.

 

I'm a complicated, multi-disciplined, and multi-gunned man.  I can kill ya just as easy with a wheelie shooting black powder as a 12 ga. or an AR.  

 

These threads always evolve into which tool is better but often never touch on the BALLS and the MINDSET to get the job done COLD AND QUICK!  That about sums-up my feelins' for today!

 

Dave

Shootist

...and that is the rub...isn't it.  We all have the various tools to protect ourselves and family whether it be wheelie,plastic fantastic,shotty, but I chose "conceivably" because in the heat of the moment I don't have a clue how I would react...

Oh I have the mechanics all down..the position,where the back up firearm is,speed loader drills, but to actually predict if or when I would actually pull the trigger is another thing entirely.....I do hope I posses the "BALLS" to get the job done.

...and that is the rub...isn't it.  We all have the various tools to protect ourselves and family whether it be wheelie,plastic fantastic,shotty, but I chose "conceivably" because in the heat of the moment I don't have a clue how I would react...

Oh I have the mechanics all down..the position,where the back up firearm is,speed loader drills, but to actually predict if or when I would actually pull the trigger is another thing entirely.....I do hope I posses the "BALLS" to get the job done.

 

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

It's always what I refer to as "The Unknown Factor".  As corny as this sounds, John Wayne's role of J.B. Banks in The Shootist best exemplifies what I'm writing about.  When imminent threat presents itself, one must ACT and ACT QUICKLY!  Don't hesitate, don't breathe, don't even blink, just draw and FIRE!  Those that CAN do that are ALIVE and most of those that didn't wound-up in a world of hurt or dead.  Every Man or Woman should practice from behind cover "IDPA style", but in addition should also practice to be decisively expedient while transiting out in the open.  It all starts with situational awareness:  limiting your exposure to hostile acts.  Preparing a mindset to overcome obstacles and instantly do SOMETHING to prevent a problem PRIOR to it occurring.  Or at least be ready to face the consequences if something unplanned does happen.  Call it "Gut Instinct" or what have you.  Some of us have it and some of us collect tools........

 

Have a great rest of the holiday week Duppie!

 

Dave

As others said, keeping a mag loaded will not harm the integrity of the spring. However, polymer lips on mags (like Pmags, for instance) have a greater ability to deform when under prolonged stress, creating the potential for malfunction. Just something to be aware of.

???

I will see if I can find the inmate study done in the 90s and used by the FBI.  I posted it here a few years ago but will look in my files.

 

 

some tidbits from the study that always stood out to me;

-Dog is the number 1 deterrent where over 90% said they'd move on and choose another house because dogs make noise (regardless of size)

-if heard, the racking of a shotgun instilled fear in over 3/4s of the inmates as none of them wanted to get shot

-that same number of inmates said a gun was the 2nd biggest deterrent (if known to be in house that is) not #1 because some felt they could get in and out before anyone woke up and they doubted some would actually pull the trigger or they could get out in time.

-over 70% of felons said they have fled or would flee if they knew the home owners were aware they were there. Turning on a light upstairs for instance created a 'flee' mentality.  Alot depends on the setup of your house however.....

 

 

 

 

dead on with the comments on the springs, load and let it sit with no issues!

???

Don't mind john, he's a little "touched"

fyi, not saying I know what to do like a professional etc but those things always stuck out to me

As others said, keeping a mag loaded will not harm the integrity of the spring. However, polymer lips on mags (like Pmags, for instance) have a greater ability to deform when under prolonged stress, creating the potential for malfunction. Just something to be aware of.

 

Do you have a source for this? Plastic doesn't tend to deform that way in my experience, where the cheap crappy steel in GI mags does. 

 

As others said, keeping a mag loaded will not harm the integrity of the spring. However, polymer lips on mags (like Pmags, for instance) have a greater ability to deform when under prolonged stress, creating the potential for malfunction. Just something to be aware of.

Do you have a source for this? Plastic doesn't tend to deform that way in my experience, where the cheap crappy steel in GI mags does.

I am curious for as source as well as that claim is directly counter to my experiences with PMags. This was the case however with the old Thermold mags I still see every now and again. Keep in mind, not all plastics (or mags) are created equal.

 

I am not saying it is impossible, just that it isn't a rampant issue with PMags.

 

Keep in mind that magazines are a wear item. They have a service life after which they become problematic and need to be discarded after given some "hammer therapy".

 

I posted the below quote in this thread. Pertinent portions have been bolded:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/60587-pmag-gen-m3-wont-insert-with-breech-closed-mp-15-sport/page-2?hl=%2Bpmags+%2Bspread#entry776421

 

I am not getting what you are saying here by "manually push down". How are you loading if not manually? Are you using some kind of loader like a Lula or stripper clips?

 

For visual from the thread.

I oversee 100s of 30 round Pmags, ARC mags and GI mags loaded and used for training every year. I have seen something similar to that photo exactly one time. It happened when a shooter was using stripper clips to load and used a table instead of his thumb to feed from the clip into the mag.

That mag also looks like it has too many rounds in it...

ETA: OK. That picture above is of a reported stored mag showing signs of feed lip spread. After reading this I went to my call out bag and grabbed three loaded mags out of my "Oh Sh!t" bag where I keep extra mags, batteries, snacks, etc... These 3 mags were issued to me after being fired to test function, maybe 90 rounds through each, then loaded and stored for a rainy day in 2008. They show no signs of spread.

Not every Wheelie Man makes the claim, for I certainly DON'T and I have owned a Wheelgun since '77. Just setting the record straight, not a pissing contest, lol!

Not every Wheelie Man makes the claim, for I certainly DON'T and I have owned a Wheelgun since '77. Just setting the record straight, not a pissing contest, lol!

I got u brother

Don't mind john, he's a little "touched"

Yep, gotta read between the lines with me.

 

If there is any consolation regarding pmags. My boy is a SSgt in the Marines... Been everywhere, shot at and blown up. We chatted awhile ago about mags. They mostly use metal unfortunately. But when allowed, use pmags. All the brutal environments they've tested them in, the pmags outlasted all others and are preferred.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using TT 2 Pro

Don't mind john, he's a little "touched"

Yep, gotta read between the lines with me.

 

If there is any consolation regarding pmags. My boy is a SSgt in the Marines... Been everywhere, shot at and blown up. We chatted awhile ago about mags. They mostly use metal unfortunately. But when allowed, use pmags. All the brutal environments they've tested them in, the pmags outlasted all others and are preferred.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using TT 2 Pro

I cited Pmags incorrectly, confusing them with Thermolds. My apologies.

 

EDIT: I recall seeing the picture of feed lip spread above, and didn't actually investigate it.

 

Thanks for the info on the pmags.

Do you have a source for this? Plastic doesn't tend to deform that way in my experience, where the cheap crappy steel in GI mags does.

Well magpul might be the source. It's why the include the covers with them. Keeps crud out but it also pushes the top round away from the lips a bit for extended storage. It's also one of the reasons lancer gave for the metal inserts.

 

 

Well magpul might be the source. It's why the include the covers with them. Keeps crud out but it also pushes the top round away from the lips a bit for extended storage. It's also one of the reasons lancer gave for the metal inserts.

I don't know anyone who keeps the lids for PMAGS. I throw them away as soon as I get them.... Hard to keep loaded mags in pouches with the lids on

 

As far as Lancer mags, I have half a dozen of them. They don't work very well, metal inserts or not.... Just sayin'

I don't know anyone who keeps the lids for PMAGS. I throw them away as soon as I get them.... Hard to keep loaded mags in pouches with the lids on

Especially with Midwest's mags. They don't even really stay in. Not a knock on them in any way

I don't know anyone who keeps the lids for PMAGS. I throw them away as soon as I get them.... Hard to keep loaded mags in pouches with the lids on

 

As far as Lancer mags, I have half a dozen of them. They don't work very well, metal inserts or not.... Just sayin'

 

my loaded stored mags that do not get used on the regular have those caps on them... 

I don't bring 30 mags to the range every trip.. no sense in leaving open stored mags so I can possibly get dust dirt and whatever in there.. 

I don't know anyone who keeps the lids for PMAGS. I throw them away as soon as I get them.... Hard to keep loaded mags in pouches with the lids on

 

As far as Lancer mags, I have half a dozen of them. They don't work very well, metal inserts or not.... Just sayin'

 

I dunno what lancer mag generation you have, but I know a lot of people who run them hard and work fine.

They are Gen 1 and they gave me lots of problems - the PMAGS didn't, so I stayed with them. Don't see a need to go back to a mag that gave me a headache, even a new generation. Meh... If the new ones are working maybe I will check out the latest ones.....

I don't know anyone who keeps the lids for PMAGS. I throw them away as soon as I get them.... Hard to keep loaded mags in pouches with the lids on

 

As far as Lancer mags, I have half a dozen of them. They don't work very well, metal inserts or not.... Just sayin'

Everyone says they are indestructible. Magpul ships them with a feed lip protector. There's gotta be a reason. Might be a stupid reason that's way out there, but there has to be one. Might be that it prolongs the lifespan before you get that crack in the back that seems to be how they die. Which, you know, makes the feed lips do their job less reliably.

 

 

 

The lancer feed lips

A spring compressing and rebounding is what wears a spring. Being compressed does nothing negative to it.

Just an extra two cents...don't worry about this "elastic limit" thing either. A spring in compression will clash before the yield strain is reached (unless something silly has happened, like it lost its heat treatment in a fire)

The reason I always mention the "elastic limit" bit when this topic comes up is because you get the WECSOG Armorers telling folks to "stretch the springs to make them stronger" as the answer to every mag related problem. Or even worse, "stretch the spring out if you think you left it loaded for too long. That will make it work like new ." ugh.... You can easily bring a spring past it's elastic limit by stretching it as well as compressing it, and there is no "clashing" to help prevent over-extending a spring.

 

Everyone says they are indestructible. Magpul ships them with a feed lip protector. There's gotta be a reason. Might be a stupid reason that's way out there, but there has to be one. Might be that it prolongs the lifespan before you get that crack in the back that seems to be how they die. Which, you know, makes the feed lips do their job less reliably.

My understanding (after talking with Drake and Rich at Magpul) is that initially there were concerns over longevity with loaded mags. Those concerns are no longer there as they have PMags at their offices that have been loaded since day 1 with no issues. They continue to ship with lids primarily because consumers hate change, and some folks operating in extremely dirty, dusty, muddy, etc... environments may want to use the lid to keep crap out mags that are stored loaded.

 

BLUF: Mags are wear items and should be destroyed and replaced when necessary. Using the lids does nothing to prolong their service life. On the other hand, there is no downside to using them on stored mags either, as long as you remember to pop the lids before putting them into service.

 

my loaded stored mags that do not get used on the regular have those caps on them... 

I don't bring 30 mags to the range every trip.. no sense in leaving open stored mags so I can possibly get dust dirt and whatever in there..

 

  

 

Where do you store your mags? In the cat's box? My loaded mags are stored in my safe in the house, in mag pouches with bullets down, or in bags (go bags, work bags, etc..). My empty mags are in stacked in milk crates or rubbermaid crates with their bottoms up, in the basement. None of them get too much dust dirt and whatever in them. If I lived in an extremely dusty area, or was working in far away places, I may rely more on the lids, but I don't so in the trash they go. One less thing for my OCD mind to stress about at the range.

 

What do you use to cover any AK, pistol, etc... mags that are stored?

The reason I always mention the "elastic limit" bit when this topic comes up is because you get the WECSOG Armorers telling folks to "stretch the springs to make them stronger" as the answer to every mag related problem. Or even worse, "stretch the spring out if you think you left it loaded for too long. That will make it work like new ." ugh.... You can easily bring a spring past it's elastic limit by stretching it as well as compressing it, and there is no "clashing" to help prevent over-extending a spring.

 

 

My understanding (after talking with Drake and Rich at Magpul) is that initially there were concerns over longevity with loaded mags. Those concerns are no longer there as they have PMags at their offices that have been loaded since day 1 with no issues. They continue to ship with lids primarily because consumers hate change, and some folks operating in extremely dirty, dusty, muddy, etc... environments may want to use the lid to keep crap out mags that are stored loaded.

 

BLUF: Mags are wear items and should be destroyed and replaced when necessary. Using the lids does nothing to prolong their service life. On the other hand, there is no downside to using them on stored mags either, as long as you remember to pop the lids before putting them into service.

 

  

 

Where do you store your mags? In the cat's box? My loaded mags are stored in my safe in the house, in mag pouches with bullets down, or in bags (go bags, work bags, etc..). My empty mags are in stacked in milk crates or rubbermaid crates with their bottoms up, in the basement. None of them get too much dust dirt and whatever in them. If I lived in an extremely dusty area, or was working in far away places, I may rely more on the lids, but I don't so in the trash they go. One less thing for my OCD mind to stress about at the range.

 

What do you use to cover any AK, pistol, etc... mags that are stored?

 

 

when I look at a mag.. or gun.. or rifle.. I just want the best possible scenario... I want to set myself up in a way that benefits me the absolute best...  I see no reason to handicap my gear... and limit myself especially when there is no reasonable benefit in doing so.. the manufacturer ships them with a "lid" so I just figure it better to seal them up... they are stored in my safe.. but if I took them out of there in a hurry and threw them in a backpack and drug them through god only knows where they might be subjected to the elements.. so why not just use the free included fitted lids to maximize the performance...

 

granted it will likely NEVER matter.. but why throw them out? I am sure they are included to do something.. lol