RCBS Little Dandy Pistol Powder Measure

 

This is a great pistol powder measure -- 

 

You'll need some rotors --  not sure which ones -- depends on what powder and charge you're using

 

 

What powder did you end up with?

I didn't find any powder yet, Lock's was closed Monday I don't want to drive back up there just for that. All my local shops don't have any. I'm going to the Oaks gun show Friday and that's the first thing I'm looking for. 

I'll keep an eye out for that measure too.

I found the last jug of Clays in the whole world!!! I also got a jug of Auto comp because they said it will meter more consistent in the Pro auto disk. I would like to use the Clays but if it doesn't work in the Auto disk I'm probably not going to use it.

 

That's the only powders I could find on this whole thread. They had a Power Pistol left too but for some reason I got the Auto comp instead.

Good luck and if the Clays doesn't meter well for you, I'd be happy to drive down and take it off your hands.

Hold onto the Clays, it's like liquid gold right now!  Auto Comp can be a little difficult to work with, needs near upper limits to work well.  Heard that it is used as OEM powder but never found out what loads it's used in.  Clays can be pressure sensitive, not much between high and low charge weights and charges are very low.  BE VERY CAREFUL.

 

Both are very clean and work well in powder measures as they are a ball shaped powder. 

 

Good Luck working up a load and again BE CAREFUL.

Clays causes ball cancer. Don't even look at it and send it to me right away for proper disposal!

Okay fellas I have a few questions... been working alot and havent had any time to do any loading so I been doing alot of reading.

 

Please correct me if I'm bass ackwards here..

Right now I kinda undersatnd it as a powder with a slower burn rate can be laoded to the same pressure as a powder with a fast burn rate and the slower burning powder will give you more FPS because its driving the bullet for a longer period of time.

 

Now,

Why is Clays so great if its number 10 on the burn rate chart and something like Auto Comp is number 43.

 

Wouldnt the Auto Comp have less recoil and be more accurate because of that?

 

School me please...

It also kinda sucks that some are measured in CUP and others are PSI. 

 

Is there a good chart that has all powders in one measurement?

Each and every caliber has a max pressure rating regardless of powder used.  Now each powder's pressure curve is achieved differently.  Burning rate has a lot to do with it.  Fast burning powder will have a sharper curve than slow burning powder.  Sharper curves means higher pressure faster and for shorter period.  Light bullets respond well to this. Heavies do not.  Slow burning powder achieves the peak pressure over a longer period of time.  Pushes heavy bullets better.  Now, where a powder lies on the burn rate chart is strictly by its individual burn rate.  There is no relevance to position other than burn rate.  A powder at position ten does not burn in half the time than a powder in position twenty.  It is a fine balance between bullet weight and gases pushing the bullet into the forcing cone and down the barrel while staying with the max pressure rating for that caliber. Recoil is a perceived thing.  Certain powders have a "snappy" feel while others feel like a big thump.  Slow powders do not shoot softer because they burn slower.  It is again a balance between powder burn rate, bullet weight, and the way the firearm is setup to handle that impulse. 

Recoil is perceived differently with different powders but physics makes the forces equal no matter the speed of the burn

 

push a 200 grn pill 850 fps and it creates x amount of recoil regardless of how fast it got to 850fps

 

its the difference between being punched in the chest or being shoved -- you absorbed the same energy -- you just perceived the shove as being weaker and easier to handle

 

most people find the shove of a slower burning powder easier to handle 

 

you'll also find that speed shooters will want fast burning powders -- it just takes too long for the action to cycle on slower burning powder -- most of us will never know the difference

 

Please correct me if I'm bass ackwards here..

Right now I kinda undersatnd it as a powder with a slower burn rate can be laoded to the same pressure as a powder with a fast burn rate and the slower burning powder will give you more FPS because its driving the bullet for a longer period of time. Provided the fast powder is restricted to max chamber pressure, then yes it will have lower muzzle velocity. MV comes from the area under the pressure curve (pressure*area=force, integral of force = work), so given two traces where one has a fast peak and drops off vs. one with a later peak but long duration, the long duration will have more total work done = energy.

 

Now,

Why is Clays so great if its number 10 on the burn rate chart and something like Auto Comp is number 43. I believe Clays is most popular with the action pistol guys and target shooters. Gamers use heavy bullets at the minimum velocity to make required power factor which requires a fast powder - if a slow powder was used for bunny fart loads you'd get incomplete burns and perhaps failures to cycle the action

 

Wouldnt the Auto Comp have less recoil and be more accurate because of that? If you mean "percieved recoil" then maybe, maybe not. The initial peak pressure would come on slower, but the energy imparted to the projectile still has to be balanced and dissipated by the gun+hand combination. And accuracy is a separate animal.

I'm diggin this... Thanks guys

Is there a sight that breaks down all the abbreavations for bullets? I got some Berries bullets and got the load data from the hogden site but the box does not match the load data title. The load data title is 124 GR. BERB HBRN TP. So far I know that stands for Berrys bullets, hybred round nose but what does the TP stand for?

 

The bullets are copper coated TMJ's round nose 124gr. 9mm.

The other thing everyone forgets about recoil is that recoil doesn't stop being generated when the bullet leaves the muzzle.  Even after the bullet has left the muzzle, there are still forces acting on the gun to increase recoil, primarily the gases exiting the muzzle. The more gases and burning powder are still exiting the barrel after the bullet has left, the more recoil keeps on being generate.  Yes, it still pushes against you, at that point you basically have a small rocket engine trying to push the barrel and the gun towards you.

 

This is why fast powders like Clays can have a softer perceived recoil. Because they burn up quicker and expend more of their energy getting the bullet going down the barrel, where a slower powder may end up burning longer, after the bullet left, continuing to generate more recoil. Think of fast powders as being more efficient at turning nitrocellulose into bullet velocity with less wasted heat, flash, and gases that contribute to the recoil but not to the velocity.

 

At the same time, if you have a barrel with a compenstator, the math changes. You want a slower powder that generates more gases because you need the excess gas to operate the ports and provide reaction mass. Basically now you want the rocket engine because you are thrust vectoring that rocket engine to nullify the recoil generated by the bullet.  

At the same time, if you have a barrel with a compenstator, the math changes. You want a slower powder that generates more gases because you need the excess gas to operate the ports and provide reaction mass. Basically now you want the rocket engine because you are thrust vectoring that rocket engine to nullify the recoil generated by the bullet.  

Mmmmmmm... thrust vectoring.. :focus:

Every manufacturer has his own terminology to describe their product. Berry's is no different.  Most pistol loads can be described as follows

HP - Hollow Point or with plated bullets, heavy plate. have to look at bullet.

FP - Flat Point

SP - Soft Point - the core is exposed at the tip of the bullet.

HB - Hollow Base - bullet is longer because center has no core at base

RN - Round Nose

TP - thick plate same as HP heavy plate.

SWC - semi wad cutter - good for target shooting, cuts round holes in paper.

DEWC - double ended wad cutter - mostly for revolvers, 38 esp.  again paper target shooting like bullseye

TMJ - Total metal jacket  - the entire bullet is covered by a metal jacket

FMJ - Full metal jacket - bearing surfaces are covered by a metal jacket - base is not you can see the core

CB - concave base - bottom of bullet is arched inward.

BB - beveled base  - bullet has a slight bevel at the base easier to load helps with ballistics

L - lead  or HC hard cast -  Lead bullets can have different "hardness" ratings.

J - jacketed

 

Things like XTP, HAP, GDHP, are specific to a manufacturers product.

 

Just a few to get you going...............

 

Be aware of bullet sizing too. Lead and plate are usually .001 larger in diameter than bullets with a metal jacket.

Lead has a lower top end speed to limit bore leading (around 1100-1200 FPS) and plated can safely be pushed up to 1200 - 1500 FPS on average.  You need to check with each manufacturer for particulars.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dobie - is that you???

 

(I must be REALLY old, huh?)

Wow thanks Vlad that's pretty cool. I have been shooting Clays at 4.1gr because it seems to have less perceived recoil than Auto comp at a medium load.

 

T Bill, as always you are the man. I've been looking for an answer like that all day lol. You even broke it down with the explanations and everything. Thanks again.

I like WSF for full house loads!

I load with autocomp even though I dont have a  comped pistol.  I like the way it meters and burns clean.  If recoil is not an issue I highly recomend it.  My untrained self does not really notice the difference in recoil between autocomp and H-universal in 40 S&W.  I do however notice the difference in loading.  Autocomp is very consistent in charge to charge variaton.

 

Ken

You got that right Ken. I loaded 30 rounds for my 9mm and the Auto Comp meeters exactly the same every time through the Lee powder measure. 

 

I loaded about 50 rounds with it for the .45 and same thing, exact weight every time. 

 

After some better testing I decided I like the Clays for the .45. The 9mm is just a fun gun so I'm going to use the Auto comp for that. 

 

I made 2 diffrent loads for the 9mm S&W Shield with Auto comp. The hotter one had one stove pipe out of 15 rounds and the 15 rounds of the smaller load worked great. The gun only has 65 rounds through it so far so the stove pipe may not be the loads fault. The Shield kinda has a crappy feed ramp so that may need some more rounds through it to seat in a little better.

 

I also tried to use my IMR 700x to make some loads for the 9mm but that stuff didnt meeter the same at all in the powder measure.

Clays for the win.

But you could probably find a unicorn before you find some Clays.

 

 

You got that right Ken. I loaded 30 rounds for my 9mm and the Auto Comp meeters exactly the same every time through the Lee powder measure. 

 

I loaded about 50 rounds with it for the .45 and same thing, exact weight every time. 

 

After some better testing I decided I like the Clays for the .45. The 9mm is just a fun gun so I'm going to use the Auto comp for that. 

 

I made 2 diffrent loads for the 9mm S&W Shield with Auto comp. The hotter one had one stove pipe out of 15 rounds and the 15 rounds of the smaller load worked great. The gun only has 65 rounds through it so far so the stove pipe may not be the loads fault. The Shield kinda has a crappy feed ramp so that may need some more rounds through it to seat in a little better.

 

I also tried to use my IMR 700x to make some loads for the 9mm but that stuff didnt meeter the same at all in the powder measure.

Clays for the win

Yup, now I just gotta find an 8# jug of it lol.

 

 

and the winning lottery ticket...

 

 

btw. My Range officer is a freaking tack driver now with 230 TMJ's loaded at 4.1gr of clays at 1.25OAL.

 

I really regret buying 500 factory rounds to get me started lol.

I have been using clays for my 45acp as long as I have been reloading.

I use 3 loads for 200gr LSWC 3.7, 4.0,(for plinking/steel) and for USPSA major 4.3(173-175pf out of a Trojan)

I've tried it in 9mm and 40s&w, but I use other powders for them.

Will not use anything else until I run dout of clays.