^^^ I agree with the fuel savings 110%! But regardless of what the manufacturers installation recommendations are, if our NJ adopted code says 2' that's what you have to do. We must comply with whichever is the most strict. Our mechanical code, or the manufacturer recommended installation. I especially like the part where I get to charge more $ to do an install. Thank you Obama team energy code drafters. (Sarcasm) Sent using Tapatalk 2 NOW FREE!!!

 

My town uses the mfg's recommendation for direct venting for gas and propane appliances, or at least they did in 2012-13.

 

Looking at the NJ residential code:M1801.6  "Direct-vent appliances.  Direct-vent appliances shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions."

 

I suppose some towns could go stricter if they choose.

Depends on the inspector I guess, every manufacturer has a different recommendation also so brand will be a factor. I will look it up tomorrow in the Mechanical code also to see what they say about commercial buildings. Probably the same as the IRC you quoted, manufacture recommendations. Then I'm going to start research on which brands have the least amount of clearance as well as maximum distance on the vent including change in direction. I done know if the specs are available yet on the new heaters though. Just more work for me and more to memorize lol.

 

Sent using Tapatalk 2 NOW FREE!!!

 

Depends on the inspector I guess, every manufacturer has a different recommendation also so brand will be a factor. I will look it up tomorrow in the Mechanical code also to see what they say about commercial buildings. Probably the same as the IRC you quoted, manufacture recommendations. Then I'm going to start research on which brands have the least amount of clearance as well as maximum distance on the vent including change in direction. I done know if the specs are available yet on the new heaters though. Just more work for me and more to memorize lol. Sent using Tapatalk 2 NOW FREE!!!

 

Just in the for what it's worth category, anything that uses concentric venting will have zero clearance inside the building and through walls.   It's much easier to deal with in that you only have to make one hole.   The only thing you have to pay attention to is maintaining pitch. 

I was talking about clearance outside to openings in the building, not clearance to combustible surfaces.

 

I think the only thing your going to find with concentric vent is a wall hung tankless water heater or hot water boiler. I've never seen a Powervent water heater with concentric vent kit available before. probably because PVC venting is also zero clearance, flue gas temps are only 120*. That and power vent water heaters don't have a fresh air intake and thats the purpose of the concentric vent. Run the exhaust and air intake in one pipe inside of another. I always buy and include a concentric vent kit if available for the equipment. Makes life so easy making one hole, instead of two. Even if PVC is used pitch is also important. But a concentric vent needs to follow the rule about being to close to windows and doors outside the building also.

 

Sent using Tapatalk 2 NOW FREE!!!

 

I was talking about clearance outside to openings in the building, not clearance to combustible surfaces. I think the only thing your going to find with concentric vent is a wall hung tankless water heater or hot water boiler. I've never seen a Powervent water heater with concentric vent kit available before. probably because PVC venting is also zero clearance, flue gas temps are only 120*. That and power vent water heaters don't have a fresh air intake and thats the purpose of the concentric vent. Run the exhaust and air intake in one pipe inside of another. I always buy and include a concentric vent kit if available for the equipment. Makes life so easy making one hole, instead of two. Even if PVC is used pitch is also important. But a concentric vent needs to follow the rule about being to close to windows and doors outside the building also. Sent using Tapatalk 2 NOW FREE!!

 

I know what you meant about outside clearance, I just talking about the inside.

 

Rheem makes a high efficiency water heater with power concentric venting, the prestige series.   I suspect that efficiency standards go up and more appliances become condensing that the concentric venting will become the standard as it also looks neater on the outside than two pipes.   

Makes sense to me. Thanks for the info. I rarely sell Rheem. All the supply houses I deal with are Bradford or AO Smith, except GPS they have Rheem. But its rare that I sell one. I'm sure this will become the norm in the future also. The efficiency increases dramatically when using cold air from outside for combustion. Instead of using the warm air in the house that cost money to heat up. Or the cold air inside during the warm months that the AC had to cool off.

 

Sent using Tapatalk 2 NOW FREE!!!

 

During Sandy, our power was out for a week.  We still had natural gas and our hot water heater still worked.  How, I don't know, but it worked.

 

We maintained heat by using lots of candles and keeping a big pot of boiling water going.  The steam kept the house at a constant 67 - 68 degrees.   We would periodically have to open the windows up a bit and allow the moisture out.  We had water dripping from the 2nd floor ceilings at one point.

 

Also, Teaneck has a large Jewish population.  Whenever the Jewish holidays come up, the local supermarkets stock up on (I don't remember the exact name for them) 24hour candles.  They are like votives and are contained in their own glass cup and they burn clean.  We had stocked up 5 cases or so prior to the storm, and still had some left over after.  We now keep 8 cases on hand.

 

We had actually bought a Briggs and Straton generator from the local Sears, 2 days before Sandy.  I went out and bought 5 - 5 gallon gas containers and filled them w/ gas and Stabil.  The day after the storm, we started the generator up and the rhythm of it didn't sound quite right.  Shortly after, the sound changed, the exhaust port went red hot, and then the generator blew up.  It wound up being a blessing in disguise since we had 25 gallons of gas and didn't have to get to the gas station for fillups for the next 2 weeks.

 

Did we miss having power.  Yes.  However, we were able to maintain heat and had hot showers and could cook on the stove top.  Broke out the flashlights (have lots of LED flashlights and batteries on hand!), board games, lots of weapons w/ loaded mags and did ok.

During Sandy, our power was out for a week. We still had natural gas and our hot water heater still worked. How, I don't know, but it worked.

 

We maintained heat by using lots of candles and keeping a big pot of boiling water going. The steam kept the house at a constant 67 - 68 degrees. We would periodically have to open the windows up a bit and allow the moisture out. We had water dripping from the 2nd floor ceilings at one point.

 

Also, Teaneck has a large Jewish population. Whenever the Jewish holidays come up, the local supermarkets stock up on (I don't remember the exact name for them) 24hour candles. They are like votives and are contained in their own glass cup and they burn clean. We had stocked up 5 cases or so prior to the storm, and still had some left over after. We now keep 8 cases on hand.

 

We had actually bought a Briggs and Straton generator from the local Sears, 2 days before Sandy. I went out and bought 5 - 5 gallon gas containers and filled them w/ gas and Stabil. The day after the storm, we started the generator up and the rhythm of it didn't sound quite right. Shortly after, the sound changed, the exhaust port went red hot, and then the generator blew up. It wound up being a blessing in disguise since we had 25 gallons of gas and didn't have to get to the gas station for fillups for the next 2 weeks.

 

Did we miss having power. Yes. However, we were able to maintain heat and had hot showers and could cook on the stove top. Broke out the flashlights (have lots of LED flashlights and batteries on hand!), board games, lots of weapons w/ loaded mags and did ok.

If your furnace is old style like ours was, it uses the millivolt system and requires no electric as long as the pilot light is on. A little impeller spins inside the line generating the little bit of power it needs. Simple and I wish they still worked that way.

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

for heating one room that can be fairly well closed off (such as a bathroom or bedroom) you could use a candle and flowerpots...

 

http://www.trueactivist.com/how-to-easily-heat-your-home-using-flower-pots-tea-lights/

 

Also, Teaneck has a large Jewish population.  Whenever the Jewish holidays come up, the local supermarkets stock up on (I don't remember the exact name for them) 24hour candles.  They are like votives and are contained in their own glass cup and they burn clean.  We had stocked up 5 cases or so prior to the storm, and still had some left over after.  We now keep 8 cases on hand.

 

They're called Yarhzeit candles. They're lit once a year on the anniversary of a death based on the Hebrew calendar to remember the dead.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahrzeit_candle

If your furnace is old style like ours was, it uses the millivolt system and requires no electric as long as the pilot light is on. A little impeller spins inside the line generating the little bit of power it needs. Simple and I wish they still worked that way.

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

Interesting. I had to resort to telling them it was magic after they wouldn't accept I have no idea as an answer.

there was a thing on This Old House where putting in a tankless setup and ran a concentric duct up the old chimney flue. Apparently that's legal? it was a specially designed flexible plastic duct with fingers that stuck out that kept the "exhaust" pipe centered, and the space around it was where "return" air came back into the building.

We have several heat backups in place (Two is one, one is none).

 

1. Recently purchased wood stove.  One of the best preps I have purchased.

2. Gas fireplace

3. Pellet stove

4. Big Buddy heater with 1 lb fuel canisters and 20 lb adapter kit.

5. Backyard firepit

 

The wood stove and gas fireplace can both work without electricity.  The pellet stove requires electricity, but I built a 200AH battery backup for it if needed.

 

GA

there was a thing on This Old House where putting in a tankless setup and ran a concentric duct up the old chimney flue. Apparently that's legal? it was a specially designed flexible plastic duct with fingers that stuck out that kept the "exhaust" pipe centered, and the space around it was where "return" air came back into the building.

that's legal here if you want to pay the $2K for the concentric kit. Most manufacturers make those kits now. I believe crown Boiler company was the first I know of to offer it a few years ago.