Coming home from church in my wife's car (2001 Caddie DeVille) I was coming up to a red light.  The brake went all mushy and went ALL the way down to the floor.  We were able to stop safely, thank God.  Took the car to in-law's house and had it towed.  Tow truck driver said our car was the 2nd car of the day he was towing that had breaks do out.  He said brake lines are being corroded due to all the salt put down on the roads this past winter.

 

So please, if you have a car that has been through a few winters have your brake lines checked.  If we had been going down the mountain (Warrenville Road) and the brakes had gone out then it could have been very, very bad for my entire family and possibly other people.

 

There was no warning at all when it happened.  Breaks were fine one minute and gone the next.  We just had the brakes down last summer.  Don't know if they checked the brake lines or not or if that is even something they look at when doing a brake job.  I'll have to check the drive way for break fluid but haven't noticed anything recently.  So please, have your cars checked out.

Glad you made it safe through that.

 

Going down Warrenville Rd is bad even with functioning brakes.

 

Time to check out my cars.

Tough to see where they fail, Usually in the clips that holds the line along the frame of the vehicle.

Try have A line going while pulling A 40 Ft 5th wheel camper, Not A happy situation, Had the lines replaced then on the way back from A trip last week hit hit the brakes to enter my driveway and bam one of the new lines blew.  That turned out to be A flare that wasnt done right when fixed.

 

As the OP said   check those lines.

Was discussing this with my mechanic the other day.  Says he's been changing out a bunch of brake lines after this past winter.  Something to do with the salt brine spray some municipalities have been using versus the traditional rock salt.  The brine activates when wet and then it's corrosion city.

Coming home from church in my wife's car (2001 Caddie DeVille) I was coming up to a red light.  The brake went all mushy and went ALL the way down to the floor.  We were able to stop safely, thank God.  Took the car to in-law's house and had it towed.  Tow truck driver said our car was the 2nd car of the day he was towing that had breaks do out.  He said brake lines are being corroded due to all the salt put down on the roads this past winter.

 

So please, if you have a car that has been through a few winters have your brake lines checked.  If we had been going down the mountain (Warrenville Road) and the brakes had gone out then it could have been very, very bad for my entire family and possibly other people.

 

There was no warning at all when it happened.  Breaks were fine one minute and gone the next.  We just had the brakes down last summer.  Don't know if they checked the brake lines or not or if that is even something they look at when doing a brake job.  I'll have to check the drive way for break fluid but haven't noticed anything recently.  So please, have your cars checked out.

it's not the salt. this didn't happen this much back in the 80's and 90's when we were having plenty of snow. it's the brine. that stuff's much much more corrosive than salt. i do a LOT of these.

 

 if i had to guess, yours blew through at the rear junction?

I did not think that was possible on modern cars.  I always thought there were two sets of lines and cylinders so you would only lose 1/2 the brakes in such an event.  Glad you are ok.

I did not think that was possible on modern cars.  I always thought there were two sets of lines and cylinders so you would only lose 1/2 the brakes in such an event.  Glad you are ok.

 

Wrong.  Still only a single line to each caliper/drum. 

 

What amazes me is that car manufacturers aren't making something that is very important safety wise, out of a better material that will be resistant to corrosion...like stainless steel...

Wrong.  Still only a single line to each caliper/drum. 

 

What amazes me is that car manufacturers aren't making something that is very important safety wise, out of a better material that will be resistant to corrosion...like stainless steel...

That was my point, there is a separate line to each caliper or drum and don't they come from a pair of master cylinders so if one fails you still have half the braking system?

I just did front calipers and stainless lines yesterday. After I buttoned it up, the feeder line to the rear brakes have when bleeding.

 

It happens. To be honest, this wasn't something that just happened. Probably didn't see it when the brakes were done.

 

I saw my line looked rusty and knew it would have needed to be changed soon.

There is one master cylinder with two barrels in it, one for the front and one for the back on everything 1967 and newer. I need to change the master cylinder on my '65 to a two barrel for safety reasons.

 

TBH, it is near impossible to see all of the brake lines on trucks and SUVs these days, while cars are a bit easier. It isn't unreasonable to have a rotted line above a gas tank and I've had to change those. It is also remarkable how corroded a line can be and still hold pressure as unsafe as it is.

 

Also... lines replaced by a mechanic tend to rust quicker than OE lines. The lines you (and your mechanic) get from parts stores are coated carbon steel, and when bent sometimes lose their coating. Not as good as prebent carbon or stainless lines. 

 

I started using nickel/copper brake lines and it has been a life changing experience. Double flairs are stupid easy to make, the lines bend very nicely, and NO STEEL TO RUST! Even stainless steel WILL rust!

i had a brake line snap one me,i dont even know how i made it out alive

Wrong.  Still only a single line to each caliper/drum. 

 

What amazes me is that car manufacturers aren't making something that is very important safety wise, out of a better material that will be resistant to corrosion...like stainless steel...

Its still Stain LESS,  it will corrode. just takes longer.  Many years ago I had the same thing happen coming to a light, hit the brakes and the pedal hit the floor.  Good thing EBrake still worked.  Corroded brake line blew out.

I'll be taking my car in to the mechanic this week to have it checked out. It is a 2006.I drive much less than my wife does ( 2 miles a day to & from trains station & what ever running around on weekends). Never want that to happen again.

Howard is correct. All brake systems, the front brakes are separate from the rears. The master cylinder has two pistons, which separates the front and rear. However the front brakes do most of the work and will probably be the ones to go, leaving the weaker rear brakes. Usually enough for you to stop in a non emergency situation.

 

The big difference between old cars and newer cars is that they used to use a copper/ bronze for the hard lines and they almost never rotted out. Today they use a steel material, lightly coated with some inhibitor, because they are too cheap to use good materials these days and this is what you get.

Howard is correct. All brake systems, the front brakes are separate from the rears. The master cylinder has two pistons, which separates the front and rear. However the front brakes do most of the work and will probably be the ones to go, leaving the weaker rear brakes. Usually enough for you to stop in a non emergency situation.

 

The big difference between old cars and newer cars is that they used to use a copper/ bronze for the hard lines and they almost never rotted out. Today they use a steel material, lightly coated with some inhibitor, because they are too cheap to use good materials these days and this is what you get.

 

I've worked on cars for a very long time and have never seen this, can you verify this for me?

 

The master cylinder just provides braking power, and the porprotioning valve is what splits your brake pressure off to the wheels. 

 

 

What everyone should get into the habbit if is hosing our the underside of their cars, i personally take my truck to the car wash and run the power washer under my truck, but if you have a lower car get a lawn sprinkler and drive over it slowlu, or if you can jack up your car, do so and hit it with a hose.

 

the only way to get rid of the bryne is to use water to flush it out, this stiff is worse then rock salt because unlike rock salt the bryne is a liquid and literally winds up anywhere and everywhere.

BRAKE(s)  - Related to stopping

 

BREAK - Related to not working any more.

I've been in the auto repair business over 30 years, we currently have 2-3 vehicles a week with a brake line leaking. Its more prevelant with cars of people who live on waterfront property.

I've worked on cars for a very long time and have never seen this, can you verify this for me?

 

The master cylinder just provides braking power, and the porprotioning valve is what splits your brake pressure off to the wheels. 

 

 

What everyone should get into the habbit if is hosing our the underside of their cars, i personally take my truck to the car wash and run the power washer under my truck, but if you have a lower car get a lawn sprinkler and drive over it slowlu, or if you can jack up your car, do so and hit it with a hose.

 

the only way to get rid of the bryne is to use water to flush it out, this stiff is worse then rock salt because unlike rock salt the bryne is a liquid and literally winds up anywhere and everywhere.

 

Yes, it is easy to see.  Drain the brake fluid from the master cylinder reservoir by sucking out the fluid with some type of vacuum tool.  You will see, at some point, you can only completely drain the front or rear section.  They do that so if either the front or rear has a failure and leaks out all the fluid (slow or fast leak), the other section will still have pressure and continue to work.  The master cylinder has two sections in it.  They are somewhat of a "biasing" system where the front has more pressure than the rear (to keep the rear brakes from locking and spinning the vehicle in emergency stops), but they are also independent for safety.

 

Several years ago, in my 1999 chevy van, I had to brake HARD for a deer that ran across the road.  It instantly blew out of the front line.  I knew what had happened and just drove it home (another 10 miles) very carefully, using the brakes as little as possible.  I was able to slow the truck down for lights, etc. only using the rear brakes, but knew to slow down early as the rear brakes are weak compared to the fronts.  The reservoir was completely empty in the front and the rear was full up to the divided section.  So I still had brakes, just not very good ones.

In addition to the hard lines check out the soft lines that usually go from the body to the caliper. You cant believe what poor condition they can get into.

Stainless while nice and will last very long compared to mild steel will be a pain to flare and then get to seal properly.

The Nickel Copper lines are the way to go, soft enough to bend and seal easily but corrosion free. 

The interesting thing is makes such as Porsche who knew their owners would probably not drive in the salt started using the NiCopper lines in the 70s and had fully galvanized bodies by '78, while makes that expected salt and winter use did not. My 944 has around 125,000 miles on it and the underside and hard brake lines look like new.

Edit - Also while bleeding dont put the pedal all the way to the floor because the seal may go over a rarely used corroded part of the master. Buy a Motive power bleeder it is a godsend.

Howard is correct. All brake systems, the front brakes are separate from the rears. The master cylinder has two pistons, which separates the front and rear. However the front brakes do most of the work and will probably be the ones to go, leaving the weaker rear brakes. Usually enough for you to stop in a non emergency situation.

 

The big difference between old cars and newer cars is that they used to use a copper/ bronze for the hard lines and they almost never rotted out. Today they use a steel material, lightly coated with some inhibitor, because they are too cheap to use good materials these days and this is what you get.

 

 

Segregating the brake system between front and rear circuits is not the rule.  With the advent of FWD vehicles in the late 1960's, diagonal-split brake systems entered common use.  Diagonal split has improved stability during brake failure.  Today it can be found on most FWD and AWD vehicles.  RWD is usually still split between front and rear.  Oh, to have been an early adopter of dual-circuit brakes when they were still experimenting with a left-right split..

 

 

Yes, it is easy to see.  Drain the brake fluid from the master cylinder reservoir by sucking out the fluid with some type of vacuum tool.  You will see, at some point, you can only completely drain the front or rear section.  They do that so if either the front or rear has a failure and leaks out all the fluid (slow or fast leak), the other section will still have pressure and continue to work.  The master cylinder has two sections in it.  They are somewhat of a "biasing" system where the front has more pressure than the rear (to keep the rear brakes from locking and spinning the vehicle in emergency stops), but they are also independent for safety.

 

Since each circuit of a dual piston master brake cylinder each drive both a front and a rear wheel brake, the MBC design can involve internal dual "proportioning valves" to reduce force to the rear wheel output.  Front-rear split systems can avoid these complexities with a simple "proportioning valve", internal or external to the MBC, and/or a MBC design that drives the rear brakes with a smaller piston.

I can't speak for other brands, but GM in particular has had a big problem with this since at least the late 90's. I've had two trucks that I had to have all the brake lines replaced because they rotted out, also had powersteering lines and fuel lines rot just the same. I plow and salt with my trucks, so they're getting more exposure than most people's vehicles, but the trucks from the 80's and early 90's didn't ever seem to have these problems. How the federal government hasn't forced a recall on this issue I don't understand.

The emergency brake should still function. My first car, a Mustang, had leaf springs which broke and "fell" on the emergency brake cable while I was driving. My car went from 40 mph to zero in a fraction of a second.

I've had it happen to me too - had a 1991 Ford Taurus with about 90k miles.  This car was from Vermont - went through many a winter.... Blew the brake line on a road trip 2 days before xmas.  Wound up staying in a hotel in the middle of nowhere and had dinner on Xmas night at a Waffle House...

There is one master cylinder with two barrels in it, one for the front and one for the back on everything 1967 and newer. I need to change the master cylinder on my '65 to a two barrel for safety reasons.

 

TBH, it is near impossible to see all of the brake lines on trucks and SUVs these days, while cars are a bit easier. It isn't unreasonable to have a rotted line above a gas tank and I've had to change those. It is also remarkable how corroded a line can be and still hold pressure as unsafe as it is.

 

Also... lines replaced by a mechanic tend to rust quicker than OE lines. The lines you (and your mechanic) get from parts stores are coated carbon steel, and when bent sometimes lose their coating. Not as good as prebent carbon or stainless lines. 

 

I started using nickel/copper brake lines and it has been a life changing experience. Double flairs are stupid easy to make, the lines bend very nicely, and NO STEEL TO RUST! Even stainless steel WILL rust!

virtually EVERY truck or suv i've done this on have rotted through above the fuel tank. i simply run an entire new line through there, i've been using nickel/copper forever. i friggin hate trying to make a double flare on steel. i've yet to have a problem with a line i've made.

Howard is correct. All brake systems, the front brakes are separate from the rears. The master cylinder has two pistons, which separates the front and rear. However the front brakes do most of the work and will probably be the ones to go, leaving the weaker rear brakes. Usually enough for you to stop in a non emergency situation.

 

The big difference between old cars and newer cars is that they used to use a copper/ bronze for the hard lines and they almost never rotted out. Today they use a steel material, lightly coated with some inhibitor, because they are too cheap to use good materials these days and this is what you get.

if i'm not mistaken there's some gm models out there with diagonal brake systems, whereas if you lose pressure from a blown line to one half of the master...you'll have a front and a rear brake still functioning.

I've worked on cars for a very long time and have never seen this, can you verify this for me?

 

The master cylinder just provides braking power, and the porprotioning valve is what splits your brake pressure off to the wheels. 

 

 

What everyone should get into the habbit if is hosing our the underside of their cars, i personally take my truck to the car wash and run the power washer under my truck, but if you have a lower car get a lawn sprinkler and drive over it slowlu, or if you can jack up your car, do so and hit it with a hose.

 

the only way to get rid of the bryne is to use water to flush it out, this stiff is worse then rock salt because unlike rock salt the bryne is a liquid and literally winds up anywhere and everywhere.

the proportioning valve adjusts the amount of pressure to the front or rear. the master has a single shaft with 2 pistons on it, separating the front/rear braking. if you notice on your proportioning valve, you've got at least 2 lines going in, then the outlets.

BRAKE(s) - Related to stopping

 

BREAK - Related to not working any more.

Thanks, I thought I was the only one bothered by that!

The emergency brake should still function. My first car, a Mustang, had leaf springs which broke and "fell" on the emergency brake cable while I was driving. My car went from 40 mph to zero in a fraction of a second.

Be careful with this: it's a parking brake, NOT an emergency brake. It's only connected to the rear wheels, grab too much and lock up the rear wheels at speed and you will be going for quite a ride.

Be careful with this: it's a parking brake, NOT an emergency brake. It's only connected to the rear wheels, grab too much and lock up the rear wheels at speed and you will be going for quite a ride.

if your able to lock up your rear brake with the parking brake good god I think u can skip the gym.

if your able to lock up your rear brake with the parking brake good god I think u can skip the gym.

 

It's actually quite easy to do with a FWD car.  All the weight is in the front and the rear is very light, so it's easy to lock up the rears with the parking brake.  I did this *once* at 60 mph.  Fortunately the car kept going straight.