It's been a while since I've purchased ammo in NJ.  Most of what I buy I get on-line.  What's the deal with buying .22LR?  Do you have to give them your FID because it can be used in a handgun?

.22 can be handgun or rifle ammo so yes if buying in a store or privately they can ask for your FID. 

.22 can be handgun or rifle ammo so yes if buying in a store or privately they can ask for your FID. 

Can or must?  If I buy .38sp or 9mm I MUST hand over my FID.  The last time I bought .22LR in NJ, which was a very long time ago, no such requirement was in place.

Well now you are talking semantics. Ive bought .22 ammo from stores in NJ without showing my FID. Are they legally required to? I cant answer that. Can they? Sure can its their shop or their ammo for sale if a private person.

 

 

Is .22 specifically made for a pistol?  Maybe not.  Is it handgun ammo?  Probably.  Have a spin on the wheel-o-justice. 

 

2C:58-3.3. "Handgun ammunition" defined; sale, purchase, etc., regulated; violation, fourth degree crime.

     1. a. As used in this act, "handgun ammunition" means ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun. "Handgun ammunition" shall not include blank ammunition, air gun pellets, flare gun ammunition, nail gun ammunition, paint ball ammunition, or any non-fixed ammunition. 

     b.     No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, or receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire handgun ammunition unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder is licensed as a manufacturer, wholesaler, or dealer under this chapter or is the holder of and possesses a valid firearms purchaser identification card, a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun, or a valid permit to carry a handgun and first exhibits such card or permit to the seller, donor, transferor or assignor.

     c.     No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of handgun ammunition to a person who is under 21 years of age.

     d.     The provisions of this section shall not apply to a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics who purchases, receives, acquires, possesses, or transfers handgun ammunition which is recognized as being historical in nature or of historical significance.

     e.     A person who violates this section shall be guilty of a crime of the fourth degree, except that nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit the sale, transfer, assignment or disposition of handgun ammunition to or the purchase, receipt or acceptance of ammunition by a law enforcement agency or law enforcement official for law enforcement purposes.

     f.     Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of ammunition for use in a lawfully transferred firearm in accordance with the provisions of section 1 of P.L.1992, c.74 (C.2C:58-3.1), section 1 of P.L.1997, c.375 (C.2C:58-3.2) or section 14 of P.L.1979, c.179 (C.2C:58-6.1).

     g.     Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the sale of a de minimis amount of handgun ammunition at a firearms range operated by a licensed dealer; a law enforcement agency; a legally recognized military organization; or a rifle or pistol club which has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent for immediate use at that range.

 1. a. As used in this act, "handgun ammunition" means ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun. "Handgun ammunition" shall not include blank ammunition, air gun pellets, flare gun ammunition, nail gun ammunition, paint ball ammunition, or any non-fixed ammunition.

 

 

As a practical matter .22LR by design and by name is not specifically designed for use in handguns.  Otherwise it would be called .22LP for long pistol instead of rifle.

 

What I also find interesting is that air gun pellets in any caliber is specifically designated as NOT handgun ammo.  So .177 and .22 caliber air gun ammo, which can be used in highly regulated air pistols, is NOT handgun ammo.  Ergo, .22LR is not handgun ammo.

Just curious, is there a reason you are so against showing the fid for .22 ammo? If its a philosophical thing I guess I get it but in practice I have to show it to even look at a gun so I dont see the big deal here.

Just curious, is there a reason you are so against showing the fid for .22 ammo? If its a philosophical thing I guess I get it but in practice I have to show it to even look at a gun so I dont see the big deal here.

It is a matter of principle.  Do you have to show the gas station attendant your drivers license before they pump gas?  If it's not required by law then it is an unnecessary intrusion.

Welcome to NJ

It is a matter of principle.  Do you have to show the gas station attendant your drivers license before they pump gas?

Another thing that sucks about this state...

For how long has a FID been required to purchase a rifle? Shotgun? Is it required to purchase rifle/shotgun ammo?

I believe that handgun ammunition sales are logged into a book along with your name and FID information.  And since .22 LR can be used in a handgun, you need to pony up your FID at point of sale.  If the store is not doing that, i would bet they could get into lots of trouble.

It is a matter of principle.  Do you have to show the gas station attendant your drivers license before they pump gas?  If it's not required by law then it is an unnecessary intrusion.

 

Funny you mention that.  That's *exactly* what I had to do the very first time I ever bought fuel for the first car I ever owned with my first oil CC.  Granted, it was the "City of Chicago" and it was in the early 80's when "carbon" credit card slips were still used.....  but no one else after that time, even in that city, asked for my DL. The Plate tag, yes, but not the DL.

For how long has a FID been required to purchase a rifle? Shotgun? Is it required to purchase rifle/shotgun ammo?

not sure how long FID requirement has been in place for rifle and pistol , but i just bought a case of shotgun ammo at Dicks and they didn't ask for any I. D. at all.  Except the checkout girl had to rip open the card board case wrapping to get to the bar code .. that annoyed me 

 

Welcome to NJ

 

 

They asked me that question about 3 times at Walmart in PA over the years. Apparently it pops up on their screen but most are smart enough to just type out of it.

 

I tell them it's for a machinegun. One time a young girl then asked me if a machinegun is a rifle or a handgun. I told her both. She thought about that for a few seconds, just a tiny whiff of smoke came out of her ears, and she typed out of it.

I believe that handgun ammunition sales are logged into a book along with your name and FID information.  And since .22 LR can be used in a handgun, you need to pony up your FID at point of sale.  If the store is not doing that, i would bet they could get into lots of trouble.

 

"specifically designed to be used only in a handgun."

 

.223 can be used in a pistol (AR pistol)

20GA can be used in a handgun  Pedersoli Howdah Hunter 20-Ga. Pistol

.308, .270, 7mmx08 and many others  can be used in Thompson Center

7.62x39 has been used in a variety of semi auto hand guns.

 

I can buy any of the above center fire rifle calibers all day long without a hassle (ie having to flash my FID or have my purchase logged) and they are clearly capable of being used in handguns.None of the above referenced calibers were specifically designed for use in a handgun.

 

38sp, 357Mag, 9mm, 45ACP, all specifically designed to be used in a handgun, and I have no problem forking over my FID for these calibers. It is the law and I follow the law.  Even if it is stupid.

 

.22 Long RIFLE........  DUUUUUUH.

 

I'm not shy, I don;t think my thumb print is ugly and hate to show it to people, there is no tin foil in my hats.  It all boils down to a matter of principle.  Sure I could just fork over my FID and this would all go away.  But I don't like being bullied, I do not like doing unnecessary things.  Unless someone here can convince me that NJ State law REQUIRES .22LR be logged as handgun ammo, I will argue this ad nauseum.

Ok so it is the same as 9mm you are buying for a carbine or 45 for a Kriss Vector both are rifles but you are going to have to show your FID. yes it sucks but until you move out of state or the laws change it is what it is

Ok so it is the same as 9mm you are buying for a carbine or 45 for a Kriss Vector both are rifles but you are going to have to show your FID. yes it sucks but until you move out of state or the laws change it is what it is

I was going to bring that up about carbines as well (there are .40 cal ones as well).  So, does that mean they really should not required FID for 9mm, .40cal and .45cal as they are not specifically for handguns only?  I guess it all hinges on how you define designed for?

Ok so it is the same as 9mm you are buying for a carbine or 45 for a Kriss Vector both are rifles but you are going to have to show your FID. yes it sucks but until you move out of state or the laws change it is what it is

9mm, 38sp .357etc, were designed specifically for handguns.  .22Long Rifle.....take a guess.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, you won't find any .22LR ammo in stores to buy in the first place.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, you won't find any .22LR ammo in stores to buy in the first place.

You are probably right.  However, there are a number of on-line retailers with more brains than PSA that do have .22LR and will ship to NJ without any additional ridiculous conditions.

9mm, 38sp .357etc, were designed specifically for handguns. .22Long Rifle.....take a guess.

We get what you are saying. But we live in NJ and retailers would rather cover their asses rather than make you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

We get what you are saying. But we live in NJ and retailers would rather cover their asses rather than make you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I've been out of the shooting sports loop for about 25 years.  I guess since then NJ sportsmen have been taking it up the ass so long that they have learned to like it.

I've been out of the shooting sports loop for about 25 years.  I guess since then NJ sportsmen have been taking it up the ass so long that they have learned to like it.

PSA is not Governor Christie. They are not even an NJ business. They are not oppressing you. They are free to not to want to deal with jersey nonsense and you are free not to give them your money.

 

That being said, I think you did the right thing sending them information to consider. That makes sense. Just don't hold your breath

PSA is not Governor Christie. They are not even an NJ business. They are not oppressing you. They are free to not to want to deal with jersey nonsense and you are free not to give them your money.

 

That being said, I think you did the right thing sending them information to consider. That makes sense. Just don't hold your breath

 

Not holding my breath.  I canceled the order this morning.

not sure how long FID requirement has been in place for rifle and pistol , but i just bought a case of shotgun ammo at Dicks and they didn't ask for any I. D. at all.  Except the checkout girl had to rip open the card board case wrapping to get to the bar code .. that annoyed me 

 

FWIW, Dicks asked me for an FID to buy 5.56mm

 

edit: this was Paramus last November, and they logged it as handgun ammo

FWIW, Dicks asked me for an FID to buy 5.56mm

I had the same problem with the Dick's in Edison, some young kid.  I then called the corporate office and complained.  I never had that issue in Dick's in freehold or paramus.

FWIW, Dicks asked me for an FID to buy 5.56mm

 

Did they log your purchase as handgun ammo or did they just want to see your FID?

Did they log your purchase as handgun ammo or did they just want to see your FID?

 

Paramus logs it.

FWIW, Dicks asked me for an FID to buy 5.56mm

 

Next trip ask them what ID you need to buy a Troy AR to go with it.