This has been amended before to similar conversations. It's -not- just gun issues in NJ... For the folks that own homes vs property taxes, insurance, etc., just the cost of living makes me want to leave. 2A issues just helps ice the cake.

 

As for targets, we are all targets if we are in the right place/wrong time. But any uniform is a more desired target. This includes -any- first responder. People are just vindictive and nuts!

I am probably a target because of where I work. HR on occasion has told us to not wear our ID badges in public, especially when there are angry protesters outside the building.

This has been amended before to similar conversations. It's -not- just gun issues in NJ... For the folks that own homes vs property taxes, insurance, etc., just the cost of living makes me want to leave. 2A issues just helps ice the cake.

 

As for targets, we are all targets if we are in the right place/wrong time. But any uniform is a more desired target. This includes -any- first responder. People are just vindictive and nuts!

I get it but still, can you cite a news story where anyone in law enforcement in this state was specifically targeted? You'd think: New York/New Jersey, Mafia, etc., they'd be falling like flies. The Mob can get almost anybody almost anywhere, but they don't go after the cops that put them in jail. Why?

 

No Hoboken miracles, no cases of being attacked in the line of duty, I mean actual stories, like:

 

"Retired corrections officer Frommer Bischkva was brutally attacked yesterday by three men outside an Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips restaurant in Irvington. Bischkva, who had served seven years at Newton State Prison for the Temporarily Insane, is recovering at Mother of Matamoras Memorial Hospital and is expected to recover. His attackers, who came to know Bischkva when he was guarding them in jail, all fell down multiple flights of stairs during interrogation, and have died."

Newtonian, I personally think your news story is exceptionally well written. Especially the falling down multiple flights of stairs part.

I get it but still, can you cite a news story where anyone in law enforcement in this state was specifically targeted? You'd think: New York/New Jersey, Mafia, etc., they'd be falling like flies. The Mob can get almost anybody almost anywhere, but they don't go after the cops that put them in jail. Why?

 

Other than the recent attack by the Bloods?

I get it but still, can you cite a news story where anyone in law enforcement in this state was specifically targeted? You'd think: New York/New Jersey, Mafia, etc., they'd be falling like flies. The Mob can get almost anybody almost anywhere, but they don't go after the cops that put them in jail. Why?

 

No Hoboken miracles, no cases of being attacked in the line of duty, I mean actual stories, like:

 

"Retired corrections officer Frommer Bischkva was brutally attacked yesterday by three men outside an Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips restaurant in Irvington. Bischkva, who had served seven years at Newton State Prison for the Temporarily Insane, is recovering at Mother of Matamoras Memorial Hospital and is expected to recover. His attackers, who came to know Bischkva when he was guarding them in jail, all fell down multiple flights of stairs during interrogation, and have died."

 

Maybe because they bribe enough of the right crooked cops to look the other way? Not saying every cop is crooked, but for sure there ARE crooked cops who will take bribes.

Other than the recent attack by the Bloods?

Could you be more specific? Do you have a link? 

Could you be more specific? Do you have a link? 

I don't remember a recent attack by the bloods, but there was some guy who took a gun from a security guard and then shot and killed a cop. The bloods then threatened retaliation to shoot more cops but it is unclear whether they actually followed up on this.

Other than the recent attack by the Bloods?

Here's a link to the story.

 

And here's a quote clearly indicating that this is a Hoboken Miracle:

 

Jersey City Public Safety Director Jim Shea said the threat isn’t credible and has been taken out of context.

“What happened here is one member of our force put the threat out on social media where it was viewed by people who do not have the context to view it and judge it for what it is and they took it at face value,” Shea said, according to NJ.com, citing an interview with The Jersey Journal.

Shea also questioned the ability of the Bloods to carry out such an attack. ”The idea that they are an organized group that could send people from city to city is ridiculous,” he said. “Anybody I’ve ever met who self identifies himself as a Blood is lucky he could tie his shoes, at a mental level.”

I don't remember a recent attack by the bloods, but there was some guy who took a gun from a security guard and then shot and killed a cop. The bloods then threatened retaliation to shoot more cops but it is unclear whether they actually followed up on this.

 

The cop was in uniform.

 

The article seems to imply that  the personnel threatend would be in uniform.

 

Quote from the article:

“The Cops targeted are those who are working the DOT skyway Detail single man unit,” the memo states. “In addition to shooting a Police Officer, members of the BLOODS will attack and shoot Jersey City EMTs because they know the Police Officers will respond immediately to their back-up.”

The memo calls on members specifically in Camden and Newark. It concludes, citing a reliable source, that “the BLOODS will not stop” until the National Guard is called in." /quote.

 

Nothing in this incedent bolsters the case that ex-LEO's are at a high risk to be attacked than the rest of the popultation.

The cop was in uniform.

...

 

Nothing in this incedent bolsters the case that ex-LEO's are at a high risk to be attacked than the rest of the popultation.

If it happened with any noticeable frequency one or more of the news junkies in these forums would have noticed it. 

 

Considering the scum they have to deal with, police deaths are amazingly rare. I read somewhere years ago that sanitation workers were significantly more likely to die on the job than cops.

Funny that there is so much discussion of justification for CC on a forum that mostly seems to believe that the 2A guarantees our right to bear arms no such encumbrances. Did I say funny? I meant prophetic.

 

It doesn't matter if a CO needs a gun or not. It is his right. It is my right. It's not tied to need, training, profession, political connections or anything else. As long as we keep discussing this right within the framework designed by the other side, we will continue to legitimize the very concept that we must conform to some arbitrary standard of some kind in order to exercise our precious right. I am a purist. This right shall not be infringed. Period. What is the point in arguing the level of a CO's need to protect himself if that right is absolute (other than further dividing the already fractured gun community?)

 

I completely understand the resentment some have that a "special" class of people has evolved that enjoys this right while largely remaining silent about those who are not part of the club. I do not, however, see any additional restrictions of this right to be positive or even neutral. The more that firearms become demonized, the more restrictions that are accepted, the closer we get to the eventual goal - complete disarmament. It's more divide and conquer. We are playing right into their hands.

 

I don't get to carry. It sucks, but that's what it is right now.

 

But WTF would I be happy that someone else couldn't either?

 

 

Because it's a class/caste system. Look at some of the people posting in this thread and you'll know where they think your comparative place is in society.

I wish everyone would be able to carry to protect themselves regardless of what city or state they are in, regardless if they are the average Joe or Jane or regardless if they are a LEO or ex LEO.  Nothing more to add to it.

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Yep, I have a house a a bit of acreage so when I'm home I'm often outside doing stuff. Always have one on me. Can't run inside to get it from the safe...

I second that.  I am always carrying at home and on my property.

I don't get to carry. It sucks, but that's what it is right now.

 

But WTF would I be happy that someone else couldn't either?

 

If NJ turned around and started granting carry rights to CPAs I would (after about a day of "why didn't I become an accountant") be happy for them and glad that a few more humans are carrying in this God forsaken state.

Then you're a better man than I am. I don't like being a second class citizen because I didn't become a corrections officer, cop, or accountant. 

 

I don't believe the income tax is fair either. But I would not rejoice if all the tax preparers in this country were exempt. "At least Donny the Dickhead doesn't have to pay! Praise the Lord! At least he's free!!"

 

Fukc that.

 

 

Because it's a class/caste system. Look at some of the people posting in this thread and you'll know where they think your comparative place is in society.

Yup exactly this. And nobody except you has the balls to call it what it really is.

 

 

Because it's a class/caste system. Look at some of the people posting in this thread and you'll know where they think your comparative place is in society.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

Funny that there is so much discussion of justification for CC on a forum that mostly seems to believe that the 2A guarantees our right to bear arms no such encumbrances. Did I say funny? I meant prophetic.

 

It doesn't matter if a CO needs a gun or not. It is his right. It is my right. It's not tied to need, training, profession, political connections or anything else. As long as we keep discussing this right within the framework designed by the other side, we will continue to legitimize the very concept that we must conform to some arbitrary standard of some kind in order to exercise our precious right. I am a purist. This right shall not be infringed. Period. What is the point in arguing the level of a CO's need to protect himself if that right is absolute (other than further dividing the already fractured gun community?)

 

I completely understand the resentment some have that a "special" class of people has evolved that enjoys this right while largely remaining silent about those who are not part of the club. I do not, however, see any additional restrictions of this right to be positive or even neutral. The more that firearms become demonized, the more restrictions that are accepted, the closer we get to the eventual goal - complete disarmament. It's more divide and conquer. We are playing right into their hands.

 

 

I don't think anyone here wants more restrictions. They just want everyone to be subject to the same restrictions, so that there is a louder collective voice.

 

But that seems pretty much lost, because politicians and the unions look to carve out exemptions for the police in new laws. Take for example the NJ 10 round limit bill - retired LEOs who carry would have gotten to keep 15 rounds in their carry gun under the bill. In NY the SAFE act did not apply to the police either - they passed a bill late into the night that exempted police from the 7 round limit. The excuse was that "the bad guys can't have more bullets than us." (Who exactly are the "bad guys" anyway? Law abiding gun owners?)

 

SO excuse me if I feel betrayed by our lawmakers, that they care more about saving the lives of police than they do about joe random gun owning citizen. Also excuse me if I feel disappointed in my fellow gun owners who are LEOs who feel that they can support a LEO exemption because it gets them and the blue brothers exempted from a new restriction. At the same time, kudos to those cops who stand with gun owners and oppose new and existing restrictions for everyone. Especially high praise goes to those who reject LEO exemptions and instead believe that everyone should have the same rights. 

 kudos to those cops who stand with gun owners and oppose new and existing restrictions for everyone. Especially high praise goes to those who reject LEO exemptions and instead believe that everyone should have the same rights. 

Yes, kudos to all four of them.

Yes, kudos to all four of them.

http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtribune.com/11725/national-police-survey-most-officers-oppose-gun-control-support-concealed-carry/

 

National survey of LE above shows you are incorrect....again its not the rank and file which support restrictions..its the "Yes Man" chiefs and police directors who toe the line on restrictions..because they are told to by the politicians who appointed them..

http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtribune.com/11725/national-police-survey-most-officers-oppose-gun-control-support-concealed-carry/

 

National survey of LE above shows you are incorrect....again its not the rank and file which support restrictions..its the "Yes Man" chiefs and police directors who toe the line on restrictions..because they are told to by the politicians who appointed them..

I saw the survey and was both pleased and surprised. Now that I think back on it, the questions were more generic than specific. "Will reducing magazine size to 10 rounds reduce crime" is not the same as asking "Do you support reducing magazine capacity to ten rounds" or better "Do you feel comfortable with Joe the Lemon Ice guy carrying a gun with a 20-round mag?"

 

Every big anti-gunner with half a brain knows the story on "assault" weapons, magazines, hollow points, etc. They're not so stupid that they can't understand simple statistics. If quizzed they'd probably say that mag cap restrictions would not reduce crime, but they want them anyway. 

 

If law enforcement were really on our side they'd occasionally make their position on the matter known in a big way. Not just the guy in Detroit (who, by the way, is way outnumbered by other big-city anti chiefs), or a dozen sheriffs out west. They would testify at hearings, speak at rallies, write op-ed pieces. Many top cops are high-IQ and could lend some measure of respectability to the gun movement due to the high esteem in which they are held.

 

Doesn't matter what the guy in Utah thinks or says. They'll still have their guns when hell freezes over. I'm more interested in LEOs in the liberal northeast.

Many top cops are high-IQ and could lend some measure of respectability to the gun movement due to the high esteem in which they are held.

Don't forget the south!

 

"Sheriff urges residents of Harnett County to arm themselves to battle crime"  http://news.yahoo.com/video/sheriff-urges-residents-harnett-county-031752904.html

FOP supports reinstatement of the 1994 AWB. Until they rescind that, they will always be viewed as anti 2A. 

Don't forget the south!

 

"Sheriff urges residents of Harnett County to arm themselves to battle crime"  http://news.yahoo.com/video/sheriff-urges-residents-harnett-county-031752904.html

In addition... also  the Police of Miami http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3178465/posts "Miami-Dade Police Urge Residents To Arm Themselves After Possible Budget Cuts" .

 

Also Police Chief Craig of Detroit (who also happens to be the former police chief of Cincinnati - just across the river from here) "Detroit Police Chief James Craig Wants YOU! To CCW!"  .

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01/chris-dumm/detroit-police-chief-wants-ccw-really/

 

Would you believe a Pro Gun Sheriff in California?  " We live in Mendocino County and the Sheriff (a personal friend of ours) smiles, shakes our hand and thanks us for having a license and carrying every day."  http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9568107&postcount=43

 

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Nice adds, man!