Yea but, that revolver would be a 6 bad guy gun if it was .45 ::

Clearly the best cartridge ever is the special 9mm issued to the Chinese police. It is fired from a revolver at 720ft/s and it is based on the old .38SW (non-special version).

 

Clearly it is the best because there is no way a country and government as big as China would pick this poorly for their police forces. By sheer size and authority their choice is supperior to any other police force in the world, FBI included.

As in .454 and they are all in a line?

At 750 rpm you won't notice.

Yea but, that revolver would be a 6 bad guy gun if it was .45 : :

 

I would rather get hit by a .45 than a .357 magnum as the .357 has at least 50% more energy.  The number 1, one stop shot is the .357 magnum.

That's a rough debate right there. Anyone have ANY data on .357 in the last 10 years? Any agency still using it? The one round I do hear about from OIS discussion standing a little taller than all others IS the .45 HST.

That's a rough debate right there. Anyone have ANY data on .357 in the last 10 years? Any agency still using it? The one round I do hear about from OIS discussion standing a little taller than all others IS the .45 HST

 

I know that I don't want to get shot by anything, specially well designed fat hollow point bullets.

You have a better chance of getting hit by a .357 magnum by a gang member than any LEO or John Q Public.... Of course if you own one, think you are a hot shit and shoot yourself in the dick while trying to clean it. Well, there's your sign.

 

Bottom line, getting shot by anything sux.

 

Believe it or not, the original subject matter regarding a report is just that. You can rattle on all day long about which caliber is best. If it's personal, than it will be what they feel. If it's departmentalzed, it's what they want, etc. nobody will change their minds.

 

Outside of old school thinking, which I'm guilty of at times, I'd like t think the caliber is considered by area and/or use. For example, I remember when the staties went from 38 to 357 magnums. Most of their time was on hiways and they bitched that 38s reflected off of windshields. They were probably the first ones granted magnum use. Local depts complained 38s would not stop people wearing heavy clothes, or on drugs or muscular or fat. Compounding that would be combining a couple of those. How about a big muscular guy who crosses drugs with steroids and has major roid rage.

 

When we crossed over from revolvers, most of us went 1911s... I cannot recall any poly guns out there yet. Today, barring reports, mindsets are like hand me downs. If a dept is satisfied with what they use, they will stick with it.

 

Again, J. Q. Public, just like a leo dept, has to determine what's best in their scenario. Should be a no brainer and to each their own. IMHO of course. Use what works. JQP does not need to over think it. Not in NJ anyway where you can't carry unless you are on the job or retired leo.

"Stopping power"

"one shot"

Blah blah blah. Don't knock a caliber because your shooting skills depend on specific caliber, rather than well placed shots.

 

I see the "well placed shot" argument all the time...

I have not in my lifetime been stuck in the situation where I was being shot at.. but I am willing to bet my "shooting skill" decreases when being shot at... or in the dark.. or when disoriented..

 

so the reason I use 40 over 9 or any caliber is because I trust it to do a fair amount of damage.... so I am relying less on the perfect well placed 22 shot to the brain... and relying more on any center mass shot with a larger more powerful round..

i vote for 40

I see the "well placed shot" argument all the time...

I have not in my lifetime been stuck in the situation where I was being shot at.. but I am willing to bet my "shooting skill" decreases when being shot at... or in the dark.. or when disoriented..

 

so the reason I use 40 over 9 or any caliber is because I trust it to do a fair amount of damage.... so I am relying less on the perfect well placed 22 shot to the brain... and relying more on any center mass shot with a larger more powerful round..

I wasn't specifying face shot in my well placed argument. Bottom line is if you put a few holes in someone center mass they are either going down, or they are high and it doesnt matter what you hit them with until they're heart stops beating or you hit the power button.

Time for another Old Fart to chime-in, lol!

 

Caliber choice should be based upon a few major considerations.  One that I give top priority to is what you can do with yer gun when your strong hand is no longer usable.  Keyboard Commandos can list stopping power vs. capacity all day long, but REAL WORLD is this:  Do ANY of you Pussies practice weak-hand ONLY technique?  Can ya hit the broad side of a barn?  I know some here who do (and can name them) including myself (and on various platforms of pistol, revolver, rifle and shotgun).  

 

I've seen Keyboard Commandos that can't shoot strong-hand ONLY and hit a B-27 Silhouette at 7 yards, let alone weak-hand ONLY.  So how about a weak-hand ONLY hand gun challenge to see WHO brings skills to the table?

 

Thread dies in 5,4,3,2,1.............

Smokin 50, exactly what are you smoking, or drinking?

 

A-Tech, I have looked at a lot of AAR's on OIS's where the BG took hits to the aorta, or heart, and continued to fight.... Not everyone has a psychological stop.

I'll take that challenge Dave

Time for another Old Fart to chime-in, lol!

 

Caliber choice should be based upon a few major considerations. One that I give top priority to is what you can do with yer gun when your strong hand is no longer usable. Keyboard Commandos can list stopping power vs. capacity all day long, but REAL WORLD is this: Do ANY of you Pussies practice weak-hand ONLY technique? Can ya hit the broad side of a barn? I know some here who do (and can name them) including myself (and on various platforms of pistol, revolver, rifle and shotgun).

 

I've seen Keyboard Commandos that can't shoot strong-hand ONLY and hit a B-27 Silhouette at 7 yards, let alone weak-hand ONLY. So how about a weak-hand ONLY hand gun challenge to see WHO brings skills to the table?

 

Thread dies in 5,4,3,2,1.............

Add me to old fart list that can do dat.

 

Weak or strong hand two handed or single. Strong hand middle finger too. Still working on middle finger weak hand. Lol....

I'll take that challenge Dave

Knew ya would Vlad, lol, cause I've SEEN ya do it...might even kick my ass too (until it comes to DA revo, lol)!

 

And John (bhunted) I guess I need to try more fingers, lol, to keep-up with the likes of YOU, lol!

 

So far there's THREE of us.  I'll check back later after lunch..........

Time for another Old Fart to chime-in, lol!

 

Caliber choice should be based upon a few major considerations.  One that I give top priority to is what you can do with yer gun when your strong hand is no longer usable.  Keyboard Commandos can list stopping power vs. capacity all day long, but REAL WORLD is this:  Do ANY of you Pussies practice weak-hand ONLY technique?  Can ya hit the broad side of a barn?  I know some here who do (and can name them) including myself (and on various platforms of pistol, revolver, rifle and shotgun).  

 

I've seen Keyboard Commandos that can't shoot strong-hand ONLY and hit a B-27 Silhouette at 7 yards, let alone weak-hand ONLY.  So how about a weak-hand ONLY hand gun challenge to see WHO brings skills to the table?

 

Thread dies in 5,4,3,2,1.............

 

 

I shoot weak hand.. I also shoot from my back.. and prone... I am hardly a good shot.. but can hit center mass at SD distance... with some misses (if we are being honest).... .

Dave, I ONLY shoot weak hand - and I have two of them!

until it comes to DA revo, lol

 

.

 

Well I can't do it with a bow either, but really you can't expect me to practice with antiquated weapons like you do ...

9x19 is definitely one of the 5 best 9mm cartridges.

Here's the basic gist of the argument. It isn't about what is best in terms of terminal ballistics and wound dynamics. 

 

What they have concluded is that at this point and time a wide variety of cartridges have been developed that make all of the human vitals vulnerable in a number of calibers. Since that is the case, 9mm wins in terms of cost and capacity for commercially available pistol cartridges. 

 

I'm not so sure they have a point about the 9mm being easier to shot things accurately and fast with. You can make .45 and .40 pretty tractable. 

 

Their point of wear and tear I think is bogus. Most of the really effective 9mm loads are +p or +p+, which isn't exactly gentle. 

Knew ya would Vlad, lol, cause I've SEEN ya do it...might even kick my ass too (until it comes to DA revo, lol)!

 

And John (bhunted) I guess I need to try more fingers, lol, to keep-up with the likes of YOU, lol!

 

So far there's THREE of us. I'll check back later after lunch..........

Make it 4 Dave.

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

 

 

Smokin 50, exactly what are you smoking, or drinking?

 

A-Tech, I have looked at a lot of AAR's on OIS's where the BG took hits to the aorta, or heart, and continued to fight.... Not everyone has a psychological stop.

That's pretty much what I was saying. That's what I was talking about with being high or whatnot and the only definite off button being the brain box.

Make it 4 Dave.

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

I also make it part of my training to shoot one handed with both strong and weak side - and also with my non-dominant eye...

Obviously, gravel and steel bbs are the most dangerous handgun rounds because why else would NJ ban slingshots but allow regular handguns to be sold.

Stu makes 4 and mustang69 makes 5.........

 

And I'll throw raz-0 in there 'cause I've shot with him too (excellent point on the very snappy +P+ round to make a big mushroom's worth of wound channel)!  So that's 6 of us that practice enough weak-hand to not be embarrassed........

 

And Howard can Go-Pro the entire Mess w/ his Drone, so we can examine how bad my technique sux, lol!

That's a rough debate right there. Anyone have ANY data on .357 in the last 10 years? Any agency still using it? The one round I do hear about from OIS discussion standing a little taller than all others IS the .45 HST.

 

The answer is NO. Because the one shot stop data is from the 70s and 80s. IT got a whopping 74% one connecting shot to end of confrontation stat. Which means, just like everything else, you better plan on being able to shoot, and hit, the badguy twice. Which once you plan for that, pretty much everything in the data was in the same category.