Truth overcomes all bonds...

 

Tell them it's illegal.  If they persist, call the NJSP.  If they persist after that, a call to Nappen or other gun specific lawyer in NJ, and possibly attempt to file a complaint with the State AG.

I'm with dig 07 70 on this. If you know the form is illegal but provide the information anyway you've waived your right to keep that info private.

 

It comes down to this... What's the higher priority?  Getting the gun in the house, or standing up to the PD to exercise your rights? Apparently, only one of the two will happen. And one seems to be more costly. A choice must be made. A 3rd option of course is to eliminate the problem by moving away, but that's a drastic measure and far more costly. But it might be worth it if there's more to move for than just ease in obtaining permits.  

Truth overcomes all bonds...

 

Tell them it's illegal.  If they persist, call the NJSP.  If they persist after that, a call to Nappen or other gun specific lawyer in NJ, and possibly attempt to file a complaint with the State AG.

 

Will do, If they process my application and everything comes back in a timely manner I'll let it slide until the next batch of permits....at this rate I might be applying for permits every month (going from long arms to pistols, less space).

Here is PART of the city permit:

 

Firearms Applicant Questionnaire

Last Name: ____________________________First: _______________________MI____

Marital Status: [ ] Married [ ] Single [ ] Widowed/er [ ] Separated [ ] Divorced Children ?_________

Military Status: Please indicate branch & years of service______________________________/________

Discharge Date: _____/_____/________ Discharge Rank: ______________

Discharge Status:

(circle one)

Honorable / Other-than-Honorable / Dishonorable / Other. If “Other”

Please explain:__________________________________________________________________________

Have any of your immediate family members ever been arrested or convicted of any crime? [ ] Yes [ ] No

If “yes” to above, explain (

include where & when)

______________________________________________

Does your name appear in any Domestic Violence Files or on any Temporary / Final Restraining Oders?

[ ] Yes [ ] No. If “yes” explain:

(include where & when)

________________________________________

Please list all prior addresses for the past 20 years: Start with most

recent:

1.__________ / __________ __________________________________ _______________ ______

From To Street Address Town State

2.__________ / __________ __________________________________ _______________ ______

From To Street Address

Town State

3. _________ / __________ __________________________________ _______________ ______

From To Street Address Town State

Please list the name, &

daytime

phone number of references used on your NJSP STS-33 application.

1.________________________________________________ Phone # ( )__________-___________

2.________________________________________________ Phone # ( )__________-___________

Please state your reasons and purpose for obtaining a New Jersey Firearms Identification Card or

firearm:

______________________________________________________________________________________

I hereby certify that I have answered all the above truthfully and understand that if any are found to be

otherwise, this application may be rejected, and I may be charged criminally & fines may result.

Signature:______________________________________ Dated: _____/_____/________

______________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.anjrpc.org/?page=A_Strikeforce

My Town has added a form since I last applied. Its called a Next Of Kin Form.  Not going to fill it out but want to hear the explanation of this.All my forms are done online so just need to print when done then go over to PD.

That form is more than *just* names of people in the house. 

 

"reasons and purpose for obtaining a New Jersey Firearms Identification Card or firearm:" , combined with the  self certification at the end is the HUGE TRAP.  As the form mentions, if you fill that form out, you are opening yourself up to potential criminal charges for making mistake on that form.

 

One may get into more trouble for FILLING that form out than NOT filling it out.

That form is more than *just* names of people in the house. 

 

"reasons and purpose for obtaining a New Jersey Firearms Identification Card or firearm:" , combined with the  self certification at the end is the HUGE TRAP.  As the form mentions, if you fill that form out, you are opening yourself up to potential criminal charges for making mistake on that form.

 

One may get into more trouble for FILLING that form out than NOT filling it out.

 

I know, I hate myself for filling it out and not standing up to the PD but I genuinely fear for my well being if I push the issue.

 

It's a delicate issue in this town.

 

I didn't knowingly lie on the application, any and all information provided is accurate to the best of my knowledge so I'll report back with the results.

 

I made the call to a real estate agent I know tonight and told him I want the house gone, willing to basically dump it in order to leave NJ...wish me luck folks this pushed me over the line.

I know, I hate myself for filling it out and not standing up to the PD but I genuinely fear for my well being if I push the issue.

 

It's a delicate issue in this town.

 

I didn't knowingly lie on the application, any and all information provided is accurate to the best of my knowledge so I'll report back with the results.

 

I made the call to a real estate agent I know tonight and told him I want the house gone, willing to basically dump it in order to leave NJ...wish me luck folks this pushed me over the line.

Dont sweat about it, many of us can relate to your situation.  There is bigger play than just you or that town. Towns here and there makes extra forms like that, get away for some time, it becomes "acceptable" standard, NJSP slips that cr*p into the official form and vola... we have to provide "justifiable need or show cause" to obtain / possess FID. Next thing you know no ordinary living soul can justify the need. We all would be wishing things were like they were back in 2014.  I hate it when NJ 2A organizations don't aggressively jump on sh*t like this. 

I'll preface this with IANAL. Is it really necessary to hire a lawyer when you are confronted with this kind of situation? The PD is breaking the law - there is the statute itself plus recent legal precedent - can't the applicant just file a complaint with the county district attorney's office? I would bet that if you wrote a letter to the DA explaining the situation, including the relevant cites, and ask how to go about filing a complaint - something innocent, like, "Should I file this with your office, or at the state level with the AG?" You would probably have to go no further. The DA or AG would make a telephone call and your problem would go away.

 

Alternately, file a complaint under 2C:30-2 Official Misconduct. It is not unreasonable to expect the police to be familiar with the statutes that govern one of their functions. Therefore, they are knowingly breaking the law and guilty of official misconduct.

 

There should be no reason that you should have to spend your money to combat this. Good luck.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Dont sweat about it, many of us can relate to your situation.  There is bigger play than just you or that town. Towns here and there makes extra forms like that, get away for some time, it becomes "acceptable" standard, NJSP slips that cr*p into the official form and vola... we have to provide "justifiable need or show cause" to obtain / possess FID. Next thing you know no ordinary living soul can justify the need. We all would be wishing things were like they were back in 2014.  I hate it when NJ 2A organizations don't aggressively jump on sh*t like this. 

 

That's the problem, while some NJ2A organizations claim to care (and they do to an extent) they need to start jumping on these issues and forcing PD's to comply with State law.

 

This town is a perfect example of a Dept. abusing it's powers and forcing citizens to comply or face backlash.

 

BTW, they maintain activate files on persons even years after they have passed (my grandfathers FPID/P2P file from the 70's / early 80's is still on file with them).

I'll preface this with IANAL. Is it really necessary to hire a lawyer when you are confronted with this kind of situation? The PD is breaking the law - there is the statute itself plus recent legal precedent - can't the applicant just file a complaint with the county district attorney's office? I would bet that if you wrote a letter to the DA explaining the situation, including the relevant cites, and ask how to go about filing a complaint - something innocent, like, "Should I file this with your office, or at the state level with the AG?" You would probably have to go no further. The DA or AG would make a telephone call and your problem would go away.

 

Alternately, file a complaint under 2C:30-2 Official Misconduct. It is not unreasonable to expect the police to be familiar with the statutes that govern one of their functions. Therefore, they are knowingly breaking the law and guilty of official misconduct.

 

There should be no reason that you should have to spend your money to combat this. Good luck.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Bob how do you file an official misconduct complaint? if it involves visiting the local PD good luck they will trash it before it hits someones desk.

Bob how do you file an official misconduct complaint? if it involves visiting the local PD good luck they will trash it before it hits someones desk.

County DA. They are required to investigate the complaint.

County DA. They are required to investigate the complaint.

 

So chances are slim the PD could retaliate against me if I go this route?

 

I know I sound like a push over, trust me I'm not but with the situation I described it's easy to understand why I'm being so cautious since I have to live here for presumably a year until this house sells.

That's the problem, while some NJ2A organizations claim to care (and they do to an extent) they need to start jumping on these issues and forcing PD's to comply with State law.

 

This town is a perfect example of a Dept. abusing it's powers and forcing citizens to comply or face backlash.

 

BTW, they maintain activate files on persons even years after they have passed (my grandfathers FPID/P2P file from the 70's / early 80's is still on file with them).

NJ2AS has let ANJRPC take control of this since they have the lawyers. Did you click my link a few posts above?

NJ2AS has let ANJRPC take control of this since they have the lawyers. Did you click my link a few posts above?

 

Yes I did

 

I will let this play out and once my permits are granted I'll send them a copy of the city form, etc. not until I have permits and pistols in hand to prevent the PD from slowing my collecting down..

 

Will update on the progress and the weeks tick by.

Bob how do you file an official misconduct complaint? if it involves visiting the local PD good luck they will trash it before it hits someones desk.

I would go to the AG'S office. The county prosecutor is too close to the PD.

I would go to the AG'S office. The county prosecutor is too close to the PD.

 

If I decide to file a complaint I'll do so with the AG, as someone pointed out the county one is too close and likely too friendly with the local PD...and everyone know they work hand in hand making it a dicey move.

The difference is I have to live in a small town that has no NJSP presence, if I put them in the wrong the PD might (actually, they will) make my life a living hell. I know how corrupt my town is and how many back-door things take place that push an officers authority to the very limit (and in some cases above).

 

If I could go into one of the NJSP barracks and apply I would as they are helpful and admit only State forms are required. This is what happens people when you move to incorporated areas!

 

 

Don't think we are lucky dealing with NJSP. Sure they don't tack on extra illegal forms but they take forever to issue permits, they only accept paperwork by appointment and you can never get the sgt on the phone. At least that's how it is up here in Sussex!