It's not the inanimate object or the venue that's to blame, it's the intent of the actor.

From one of the RTSP ROs: They've changed their rental policy to require a FID if you're solo.

And that prevents what?

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

And that prevents what?

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

exactly....that was my point a couple pages back....

More restrictions for an already restrictive state. NJ blood runs deep.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

A FID card requirement is not going to stop someone that wants to suck on a gun to end it all. It is all a case of cya for the business to protect itself. More likely the insurance company has asked for it. People that want to end it will always find a way to do so.

OK...... 

 

The FID card policy at RTSP is being reviewed......

 

As of now, to prevent a copycat in the near future..... yes, you need an FID card if alone....

 

Pete or I will let everyone know what the permanent policy will be once decided.......

 

Thank you for understanding.... 

Edited September 25, 201511 yr by djg0770
Cause someone has to fix Troy's grammar

Has to be a fun conversation:

 

"hi, I'd like to rent that Glock 1911"

 

"got FID?"

 

"no?"

 

"okay, bring a friend next time"

 

"why can't I rent alone?"

 

"uhh.... "

Has to be a fun conversation:

 

"hi, I'd like to rent that Glock 1911"

 

"got FID?"

 

"no?"

 

"okay, bring a friend next time"

 

"why can't I rent alone?"

 

"uhh.... "

 

"Company policy, sorry."

 

That was difficult.

"Brings a friend and offs himself anyway" 

 

That was difficult.

 

Google plus editing then laminate

 

Boom! Still solves nothing.

And that prevents what?

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

It wont prevent anything. That person just may have to wait up to 9 months to kill themself. Depending on what town they live in of course. Some people would only have to wait a couple weeks.

Florida has investigated using the NICS system for background checks before renting.  However, it is prohibited to use in that way so they abandoned it for now.  A lot of larger chain stores with ranges have stopped rentals.  

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1443059816.097217.jpg

 

Google plus editing then laminate

 

Boom! Still solves nothing.

Wait, you mean there are people that don't follow the law -- I am SHOCKED, totally shocked    

 

 

 

PS - Looks very simple to copy 1960's technology too!

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1443059816.097217.jpg

 

Google plus editing then laminate

 

Boom! Still solves nothing.

 

And the next step will be NICS before renting.

And the next step will be NICS before renting.

See my post above.  Unless the law changes you cannot use NICS for gun rentals.  

And the next step will be NICS before renting.

And this would do what ? Infringe on everyone because of a couple of morons, great liberal thinking. You can pass a nics and still kill yourself with a rental gun.

And this would do what ? Infringe on everyone because of a couple of morons, great liberal thinking. You can pass a nics and still kill yourself with a rental gun.

Or you can go to a hardware store, WalMart, etc. and do it.

And this would do what ? Infringe on everyone because of a couple of morons, great liberal thinking. You can pass a nics and still kill yourself with a rental gun.

 

It would acomplish exaclty what requiring FPID to rent does: acomplishes nothing at all. I was just ilustrating that once you embark on a special needs--trying hard to be PC, here--slippery slope there's no stopping it.

1st step-Rent freely and people commit suicide.

2nd step-Bring a friend in order to rent and people still commit suicide

3rd step-Bring a friend, a FIPD and people still commit suicide.

4st step-Bring a friend, a FIPD, pass a NICS and people still commit suicide.

5st step-Bring a friend, a FIPD, pass a NICS, bring the police chief,  and people still commit suicide.

6st step-Bring a friend, a FIPD,pass a NICS, bring the police chief, put a muzzle tether on the gun and still commit suicide.

7th step-Bring a friend, a FIPD,pass a NICS, bring the police chief, put a muzzle tether on the gun, put the gun behind safety glass and still commit suicide.

 

At some point the range owner will give up stop rentals all together.

 

To be fair to RSPT and any other place that had this type of tragedy happening in their permisses, I don't blame for doing what they deem necessary to prevent this from happening again. It's their honor, their good name, their's, their family and their employee's livelihood on the line. It's easy to bloviate when we don't have any skin on the game.

It would acomplish exaclty what requiring FPID to rent does: acomplishes nothing at all. I was just ilustrating that once you embark on a special needs--trying hard to be PC, here--slippery slope there's no stopping it.

1st step-Rent freely and people commit suicide.

2nd step-Bring a friend in order to rent and people still commit suicide

3rd step-Bring a friend, a FIPD and people still commit suicide.

4st step-Bring a friend, a FIPD, pass a NICS and people still commit suicide.

5st step-Bring a friend, a FIPD, pass a NICS, bring the police chief,  and people still commit suicide.

6st step-Bring a friend, a FIPD,pass a NICS, bring the police chief, put a muzzle tether on the gun and still commit suicide.

7th step-Bring a friend, a FIPD,pass a NICS, bring the police chief, put a muzzle tether on the gun, put the gun behind safety glass and still commit suicide.

 

At some point the range owner will give up stop rentals all together.

 

To be fair to RSPT and any other place that had this type of tragedy happening in their permisses, I don't blame for doing what they deem necessary to prevent this from happening again. It's their honor, their good name, their's, their family and their employee's livelihood on the line. It's easy to bloviate when we don't have any skin on the game.

 

I have never (except for a case where a mother short herself and her son) seen a story about a suicide at a range unless the renter came alone. I think bringing a friend has a very strong correlation with NOT wanting to commit suicide. 

Get ready...

 

I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions as it relates to this topic and I agree with the majority of you especially as it relates to the FID card being the linchpin to preventing suicides.  The truth is that any well motivated individual with a loaded firearm, that is willing to do harm to himself, will not and can not be stopped.  That said, and in keeping with playing the ODDS on what the National average is for suicidal individuals at gun ranges, it is RTSP's intention to implement the following procedure:

 

 

• No lone, first time, shooters are allowed to rent firearms, regardless of whether or not they have an FID card or not. Exception: Active and Retired LEO with a State carrying card.
• If a person comes in with a valid permit to purchase (P2P) a handgun and wants to “test drive” a rental, we have created a new product "P2P Test Drive” that includes 30 minutes of range time, up to two rental firearms and an RSO in the port the entire time.  
• All shooters must be at least 21 years old to RENT a handgun or be accompanied by someone, in the same port, who is at least 21 years of age.
• Individuals who are at least 18 years of age, but under 21 years of age can only rent rifles if they are accompanied, in the same port, by someone who is 21 or older.  

 

I agree that this is a bandaid on a hemorrhage, but we as a company would be remiss if we did nothing.  Rentals are a large part of the revenue of the company and more importantly, a convenience to customers that are looking for new firearms.  Lest we forget that there is no real solution to the mental health crisis that is abound in this Country, we just have to do all WE can do to keep ourselves and our customers safe and secure.

Clarification:

Status of the following...

If I've been to RTSP at least once before to shoot solo, with or without a firearm of my own?

•If a person comes in with a valid permit to purchase (P2P) a handgun and wants to “test drive” a rental, we have created a new product "P2P Test Drive” that includes 30 minutes of range time, up to two rental firearms and an RSO in the port the entire time.

BTW... you should have this regardless. That seems like something many a person would take advantage of, especially if it has an incentive applied towards the purchase of a firearm that day.

• No lone, first time, shooters are allowed to rent firearms, regardless of whether or not they have an FID card or not. Exception: Active and Retired LEO with a State carrying card.

To be honest I am not sure this is enforceable or economical. If I have an FID and I'm new to this area, or trying out the range for myself before I let my friends and family know, I would be pretty passed if you told me I couldn't rent. Especially given that I have to jump through multiple hoops to acquire an FID.

 

Before someone says, "oh you would have your own gun!" I tend to look at rental inventory to see if they have anything exciting to shoot.

 

Ill be honest, I'm not sure I have a better answer to this type of issue. Given the sensitivity and need to protect ones business, I get where it's coming from. Just not sure this is the right answer.

 

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

 

There has been suicides and tools to commit for as long as humans lived. And there will be for as long as complex, social animals are around. 

 

Trying to come up with solutions addressing tools is why we have NJ like ridiculous laws. 

 

While preaching tolerance, understanding and "stigma-free" for mental illness on one hand, State Of NJ tags and shuns anyone who would seek help. 

 

We cannot understand what the person went through, we (society) will not spend resources to help people in need, so we are not in position to judge anyone. 

 

This person took their  own life. I thank him/her for not taking anyone else with. RIP.  Let God sort out the rest. 

 

Note: I understand why the business has to do something. Its their business and they should do whatever they like to stay in business for the benefit of general public. 

"No lone, first time, shooters are allowed to rent firearms, regardless of whether or not they have an FID card or not. Exception: Active and Retired LEO with a State carrying card." 

 

because they never commit suicide right?  heres a clip from "The Police Chief" publication

 

" Based on their analysis of 30 published studies plus additional data, Aamodt and Stalnacker determined a rate of 18.1 LEO suicides per 100,000 officers.⁵ The most current data show a U.S. population suicide rate of 12/100,000;⁶ therefore, the LEO suicide rate is obviously not two to three times that of the general population." 

 

 

studies show le rate is higher than non le...not the 2-3 times some like to throw out there yet still higher.....so just like nj firearms laws this thought process doesn't make sense either....cant see where people could ever get "them vs us/double standards" ideas...lol

 

the rule changes ​don't affect me...as I'm not a member or customer ...but its the principle that i can't understand of how this scramble is any different than the ones after any other shootings where politicians and talking heads all run about pushing for new "requirements" ...when its that scenario people realize it will do nothing to address the actual root...or prevent future occurrences......yet in this case a large percentage are happy for new restrictions as the " l was always nervous/scared/enter other term about others around them".....and some want further "sensible restrictions"

"No lone, first time, shooters are allowed to rent firearms, regardless of whether or not they have an FID card or not. Exception: Active and Retired LEO with a State carrying card." 

 

because they never commit suicide right?  heres a clip from "The Police Chief" publication

 

" Based on their analysis of 30 published studies plus additional data, Aamodt and Stalnacker determined a rate of 18.1 LEO suicides per 100,000 officers.⁵ The most current data show a U.S. population suicide rate of 12/100,000;⁶ therefore, the LEO suicide rate is obviously not two to three times that of the general population." 

 

 

..."

I hate exemptions, protected groups, loopholes with a passion. But that's not a fair comparison. A fair comparison would to compare the suicide rate of LEO versus general population commited at PUBLIC RANGES with RENTAL GUNS. I would gess most LEO use their own guns to commit suicide and probably don't do it in a public place.

J@j. You hit it. Outside judgement cant comprehend the individuals mind set. I feel sorry for his soul.

Their house, their rules.  I'm a libertarian conservative so I don't pretend to tell other people how to conduct their business or their lives unlike other people here who aren't even customers, members, or otherwise have skin in the game

Their house, their rules. I'm a libertarian conservative so I don't pretend to tell other people how to conduct their business or their lives unlike other people here who aren't even customers, members, or otherwise have skin in the game

It's NJ. We all have skin in the game ... more than you realize.

 

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk